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sanddude

Bobcat Badge

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Hey there, I have some tigers in my den that have fulfilled their bookwork and we found out that in order to get their badge they will have to recite the scout promise and the law of the pack in front of the entire pack and show the hand shake and so on. A couple of the boys know that stuff but I'm not sure that they will be comfortable in front of a crowd. I thought that I read somewhere that tigers should never be tested in public like that. I thought that a parent or guardian was in charge of the testing. Isnt it about "Doing Their Best" Can someone provide me with some clarification on this, whats the standard?

Thanks

 

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Per the Advancement P&P Guide, the Cub's parent/guardian determines when the Cub has completed the requirement. I am a bit surprised that the TC Den Leader had not worked with the Cubs on this the first few meetings.

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When it comes to the boys being able to say the Cub Scout Promise and the Law of the pack, jmwalston is right, the parents sign off when they say that the boy is knowledgable. Memorizing it is hard enough, but if they can do it with some coaching or as a group, then it is good to go. Not to mention they will get it memorized over the year.

 

We were doing the 'living circle' and when I asked the boys to say the law of the pack, only one boy could say it (my son of course, probably because I ask him all the time to repeat it). I told them that they needed to learn it, because they all had (except one) their bobcat badge. So to help them out my son led them in a repeat after me manner.

 

But if they are able to tell you with a little help and they KNOW what it means, then I would be happy. I guess that I also have to go through and work with all my cubs again.

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When it comes to the boys being able to say the Cub Scout Promise and the Law of the pack, jmwalston is right, the parents sign off when they say that the boy is knowledgable. Memorizing it is hard enough, but if they can do it with some coaching or as a group, then it is good to go. Not to mention they will get it memorized over the year.

 

We were doing the 'living circle' and when I asked the boys to say the law of the pack, only one boy could say it (my son of course, probably because I ask him all the time to repeat it). I told them that they needed to learn it, because they all had (except one) their bobcat badge. So to help them out my son led them in a repeat after me manner.

 

But if they are able to tell you with a little help and they KNOW what it means, then I would be happy. I guess that I also have to go through and work with all my cubs again.

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Sanddude - Who is telling you that the boys have to "prove" themselves in front of the entire Pack in order to get their badge? Was this done with the rest of the boys who have already received Bobcat?

 

I would talk to whoever is putting together the ceremony and tell them NO, plain and simple. Embarrassing Cubs is NOT one of the Purposes of Cub Scouting. The boys have already earned the award. The point of an award ceremony is to recognize them in front of their friends and families.

 

A repeat after me version of the Promise and Law is fine to incorporate into the ceremony. Having the Tiger Partner give their Tiger the Handshake after pinning on their award is great.

 

REQUIRING these things in order to be handed the award is wrong.

 

The standard of "Do Your Best", and parents as Akela, can be found in the Introductory Guide in the front of your Tiger Handbook. It can also be found in the Cub Scout Leader Book.

 

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It would also be a good idea to be constantly refreshing, and reinforcing, the Bobcat requirements all during the year. Repetition is the best way for these things to eventually become second nature to the boys, and their parents.

 

The Promise, Law, Motto, and Sign can be incorporated into your den meeting openings and closings. The Handshake is a natural to be included in award ceremonies. When they do something, take a bit and talk about how the Promise and/or Law apply to the situation. Next month talk about what will be happening with the 5th grade Webelos, how the meaning of WeBeLoS fits in, and what they have to look forward to as they get older. Learning is an ongoing process.

 

 

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Well I'm the TC Den Leader and we do go over the moto, shake, and promise at every Den Meeting and Outing. We meet at least 1 a week. I'm pretty sure that most of the boy will be fine, but I have a couple of boys that are very shy. Even though they know and understand the promise and shake and Moto I dont think they will speak in front of a crowd. I dont want them to miss out on the badge because of this. I'm sorry that I did not state my question more clearly before. I was told by the Cub Master in our Pack that my boys would be asked to stand in front of the Pack and Families and recite the Promise and Moto and then answer a series of questions, as to what I'm not sure in order to receive the badge. Where in the books does it say that they have to be grilled in front of the pack! I should also mention that our Cub Leader leads all the ceremonies and he is the only one with a BSA ceremonies guide.

Thanks

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I'd ask for a copy of the ceremony beforehand. i always send mine out to famialrize not just leaders but also the pack. We do have the boys come up front. What we do is recognize that they have learned all the items and do a repeat and say after or with me. This is more of a reminder to parents and all scouts of what has been learned. any questions are - are you ready now, etc. int the yes or no variety and should not be anything to make them nervous.

At the same time I'm also asking the whole pack to join along with us. We also do the Law of the pack and sign an handshake- between the boys and cubmaster. Also learning is not the same as memorizing. It's funny that once they become Webelos they need that paper again as now they're thinking of the boy scout promise.

We also add a parent part- again a repeat after me that they will continue to help the boys along their trail.

It's a ceremonial thing not a test. tha't why if there is a single boy earning we bring the whole den up there to make him feel more comfortable.

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"Where in the books does it say that they have to be grilled in front of the pack!"

 

It doesn't.

 

"Even though they know and understand the promise and shake and Moto I dont think they will speak in front of a crowd. I dont want them to miss out on the badge because of this."

 

They shouldn't, in fact, it is adding a requirement by stating that they have to say before the Pack. The Cubmaster having a book of ceremonies is fine, but there is no ceremony as you have described in any of the BSA publications that I am aware of.

 

 

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Sounds like the Cubmaster has forgotten that these are all new members of the Pack and are to be led and protected by Akela after being trained by Baloo. No matter what the age of the boy, it is hard to get up in front of people that you might not know at all or barely know and perform like a trained seal. Should the boys know the Oath, Law, and Motto - Yes - with an asterick. I would expect them to be able to complete it with coaching and definitely understand what it means. Will they get better as the year goes on.. YES. Should they be able to repeat everything from memory by the end of their Tiger year... YES. Will they ever feel comfortable in front of the Pack reciting while being "judged" by all of the other boys... Maybe not.

 

The requirements for Bobcat being performed in the spotlight and then going thru a inquisition is like saying "taste this meal" and now go cook it.

 

This sounds like a time for the Den Leader to stand up and show the boys what character should be. Politely and respectfully remind the Cubmaster that this made up "requirement" is not present in ANY BSA official reg or direction and will do nothing but cause these boys to dread getting any kind of recognition.

 

My two cents.. but coming from a guy that has led 20 boys thru Bobcat... and father of three... I think I might be qualified.

 

 

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I would have a little talk with my Cubmaster and let him know that you are not going to go along with what he has in mind. Let him know how you, and the Tigers, feel about this. If he brings up the word "tradition", let him know that traditions change all the time.

 

Having the "BSA ceremonies guide" pretty much means next to nothing. You can pick up a copy of "Den and Pack Ceremonies" from your local BSA Council's Scout Shop for $10. While you are there you can pick up a copy of "Cub Scout Program Helps 2008-2009" for $3. The Program Helps are also found online at the BSA National site -

 

http://www.scouting.org/CubScouts/Leaders/CubScoutHelps.aspx

 

There are thousands of ceremonies that can be found on the Internet too. Some good ones are -

 

http://usscouts.org/bbugle.asp

 

http://www.usscouts.org/ceremony.asp

 

http://www.scoutingbear.com/Ceremony/cerecub.htm

 

http://scouting.argentive.com/docs/ceremony_magic_formulas.pdf

 

I like the following version of the Painted Bobcat ceremony because the parents get painted also -

 

http://www.scoutorama.com/ceremony/ceremony_display.cfm?cer_id=10

 

There are so many FUN ceremonies out there, why stick with one that will embarrass some of your boys?

 

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In the Tiger Cub handbook it states that a Scout should not be Tested to receive his badge. The reason being is that a Scout should not be placed in a position where he may fail. The only requirement for the badge is the Akeyla's signature stating that the Scout has completed the requirement.

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Sorry, but your CM is WAY off base.

 

I would discuss this with your CM and get your CC and ACM involved too. Bring along the book and the regs and let them know that you expect your Den to not be "grilled" in order to receive their Bobcat Badge.

 

If the CM protests and states, "This is how its always been done." well doing it wrong before doesn't mean you should continue the error.

 

I can't believe the CM would want to risk embarrasing a 1st grader like that. Good way to run people out of the pack. Tell them the requirements have been signed off by Akela and that is all that is required.

 

Push comes to shove - tell the CM you'll have to let the CO and District know that he is adding requirements to ranks.

 

Sounds like your CM is a little overdue for their CM training. I've been a Tiger DL and know a CM - this type of award ceremony grilling is the 1st no-no they cover at training. He / she should know better.

 

Best of luck-

 

Dean

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Thanks for all your input, I would agree with all of you that think that the boys should present as a group. I will be having a meeting with my CM and make sure that he sees things OUR way. I just wanted to say thanks again to all that responded.

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Sorry I came to the party late.

 

I agree that the cubs do not have to memorize and be tested on the Bobcat points. It wasnt clear to me though (and if I missed it, sorry) just how far you cubmaster intended to go with his ceremony.

 

I dont think there is anything wrong with the boys being asked, as part of the Bobcat award ceremony, to do a repeat after me recital of the Promise, Law and so forth. If shy Johnny is just standing there while this goes on he should not be singled out just let it go.

 

As for questions, I dont see anything wrong with the cubmaster asking, OK, who can tell me what WEBELOS means? or Can anyone tell me how the pack helps the cub scout grow? If there are no takers, then the cubmaster explains. If there are a couple of smarties in the group (and there usually are) who answer (or try to answer) the question, then so much the better. This might encourage the shy ones to join in.

 

All of the above should be done in an easy, no pressure manner. If your cubmaster has a Bobcat Board of Review in mind then I agree that that is inappropriate and unnecessary.

 

YIS

Mike

 

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