pinewood derby car rules

[SpongeBob 10]

I have been trying to get my committee to write some rules. Like most of our "pack policies", they are not written. This year I begged then to adopt written rules - the district's rules - but they didn't. The unwritten policy is that it can't weigh more than 5 oz. But it's not quite that simple. We had several boys make their cars narrower. They had to pull the axles way out to get it to fit on the track. One boy made his car so that when it was at the gate, he had a 1 inch head start. Some boys added all the weight on to the bottom, so they got stuck going down the track. Some measurements should never be changed! We did hand out district rules to the parents when we distributed the cars, but many cars were still illegal to district rules.

 

In my attempt to get the committee to start making written policies rather than, "that's the way we've always done it", I did a lot of "tuning". I let my son do the wood and paint with his dad - areodynamics has a very small effect. I got the axles and wheels, since my kid doesn't care about those. I worked very hard on them, showing my son why I was doing what I was doing, and the physics behind it (of course this involved power tools, and he can't use them). My son placed 1st in his den and 1st overall, and his family car placed first. But, according to district rules, his wheels and axles are illegal, so I will have to put new axles and wheels on it.

 

I'm hoping the committee will reconsider their opinion next year of not having written policies and rules. I think that packs should follow district rules because if the car is not legal, it will be disqualified. Does it seem right that I will be using a "different" car at districts? It shouldn't.

[eghiglie 10]

 

>> Webelos II son has Pinewood Derby this weekend. His car is almost done. Here's my question: Is is mandatory that the car axles be placed in slots, or can we use pre-drilled holes? Do you know where it states this in the rules?

 

The best rules to check are the Pack rules, although the box does come with some rules its up to the pack to take into account local conditions, skills and other factors.

 

After having helped built a number of cars in the den and for my son (and for myself in the 1960's) I can state that the axles placement in the BSA kit is the best one as it provides for correct height on the track.

 

Drilling your own holes to get the right under-car clearance is tricky.

 

[eagle-pete 11]

SpongeBob

I understand your frustrations.

I would not only suggest to the committee that they have written rules, I would insist on it. Written rules make it clear and understandable to everyone how everything will be run and how to build acceptable cars. Also, I am not sure how your committee is able to rule on any disputes without written rules to refer to. In fact, how would you know what is illegal for your pack Pinewood Derby since your rules are "unwritten"? You could put an Estes rocket on the back of your car. Who's to say it would be illegal? To me, that is just as muchan unfair advantage as the boy who's car had a one inch head start at the gate. How can your committee make any kind of ruling onany of these infringements with nothing written to go by? Ask them if they wish to handle disputes with no written rules in front of them. I doubt they would want to face the parents and tell them sorry, we don't have any rules that address that.

There have been some excellent posts on this forum which addresses Pinewood Derby:

This threaddiscusses putting together a Pinewood Derby workshop which is a great way to handle some of the issues you have pointed out, such as the base of the car riding too low and hitting the track.

This threadincludes several Pinewood Derby resorces provided by OneHour.

IMHO, running a derby (and I have) without written rules is asking for trouble. Also, a Pinewood Derby workshop would solve many of your issues with building the cars.

Pinewood Derby can be a fun event for boys and parents if handled properly. Most of the problems with Pinewoods I have seen are organizational problems. For the most part, the parents want a good experience... but when push comes to shove, the blame will rest on the pack leadership.

Eagle Pete

[OneHour 11]

SpongeBob ... do what I did! I put together the rules for the derby according to what the Pack has been followed and have the committee agrees to and adopts. I used the format from Virtual Leader site http://www.geocities.com/~pack215/pinewood.html to model the rules. Now, we run strictly by it and no one has any questions! We change them as needed. It's not the pack committee, but the pinewood derby committee which is a sub-committee of the pack! We have not changed any of our rules for two years when we allowed NylOil II to be used if applied appropriatey. Our rules are set for regular cub's race and our Open race. Next year, I'm going to propose the addition of the Outlaw Division where there are only 3 rules: 1) 5 oz max 2) gravity driven 3) 7" length. All else ... goes!

 

1Hour

 

ps: Sorry Gonzo ... didn't mean to hijack the thread! Wish you had let me know earlier ... I would have pointed you to the Derbytalk.com site earlier as well as provide you with some tips and tricks that would make your son's car more competitive. I'm glad that it turned out great for your son! As for my Tiger, we're happy! What's great is that my tiger den almost swept the Tiger division taking 4 out of the top 5 places in Tiger and 7 of the top 10 places in Tiger (out of 20 Tigers). We will go after speed next year ... so he proclaimed! As for my car, it took 1st in the Open Race where several fathers and I have been competing against each other for several years now! It has been a great rivalry! Cheers.

[Gonzo1 10]

OneHour,

It's OK, we all talk, we all learn.

G

[OneHour 11]

EaglePete and others, if you are planning to have a workshop, here is the ultimate workshop! http://www.derbytalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=1408 .

 

Ours is not as quite involved and well equipped, but it gets the job done! All 70 cars this year (and the last four years) race finished the race and the top 1st and 40th cars are separated by .15 sec, the 1st and 20th cars are separated by a mere .104 sec, and the top 10 cars are separated by .07 sec! The excitement in the boys are what we are after! By their reactions and cheers this past Friday, our pinewood committee have done our jobs!

 

1Hour

[packsaddle 753]

We ran into a problem, one year, that no one had expected. At the 'tune up' sessions, we noticed that a large number of the blocks had slots for the axles that weren't perpendicular to the direction of travel. There was no remedy for this but to recut the slots on the 'top' or to drill new holes. What a mess! Our pack would buy the kits for all the cubs so the field was leveled a bit, but some parents bought three more kits before they got one that had the slots cut accurately! The next year, the pack bought extra kits so the boys could use them as replacements or spare parts.

 

One hint about speed...one year a single mom whose love for her son was very obvious, came to me almost in tears. Her son had made his own car, very obviously. It looked the part, especially compared with the competitors. Then she brought her son to the 'tune ups' and some other parents sort of took him under their 'wings', so-to-speak. But his car had a terrible problem. For some reason the wheels wouldn't sit 'flat' on the track. Only three would make contact. I was the first to notice this so I took the mom aside and told her, "..don't do anything about that.."

The cubs and quite a few dads were astonished to see this rather plain-looking block of wood leave their carefully-engineered cars behind on the track. I'm guessing it had, perhaps, 20-25% less friction, missing that wheel against the track.

I just laughed. The mom was beaming and her son, well, he just wanted to have fun, it wasn't a big deal to him anyway. Same for most of the other boys. It is often the parents, just like in baseball, who take this stuff way too seriously.

 

Therefore regarding conflicts: As 'Weigh In' judge at the district level, I had to explain many times that just because the Post Office scale showed 5 ounces two weeks ago doesn't mean the wood didn't absorb moisture since that time, putting it over weight. The conflicts I saw usually were resolved with a quick trim of some wood off the bottom to reduce the weight...or a very disturbed parent, unhappy with a disqualification because of all the silicone lube that drenched the car, or some other unresolvable infraction. In these cases, it is a good thing to have a judge (me, in these cases) who is completely and objectively detached, with no connection to the boys or cars that are racing.

I was also pretty sure I could outrun most of them.

[eagle-pete 11]

It's Official

 

Well, I've opened up my big volunteer mouth and offered to put together a Pinewood Committee for our cubs this year... So what did the Cubmaster do..? You guessed it, she put me in charge of the entire thing!

 

So now I am heading the committee (which will be), arranging the workshop, track, writing rules, making invitations, doing food, and anything else that comes along.

 

She (the Cubmaster) seemed quite releaved and willing to turn it over to me.

 

So now I will be pooring through all those resources that OneHour posted. Should be fun. I plan to put on an excellent derby this year!

 

Your consolations are greatly felt.

 

Eagle Pete