Pack Campout and meals

[Its Me]

 

For our up comming pack campout we have asked dens to do their own meals.

 

Is this too much to expect from our den leaders?

 

Should we ask den leaders to submit a meal paln prior to the campout?

 

Should we conduct a campout meal planning pakc night?

 

 

[SemperParatus]

1. No

2. Wouldn't hurt

3. I would suggest letting the dens do it during their den meetings rather than pack meeting night.

[Trevorum]

I'd remember that Cub camping is family-based. Since each Cub will have an adult parent, cooking may be more convenient by family rather than by den, possibly excepting Webelos dens.

[Torveaux]

I would echo Trevorum's point with this additional thought...

 

your Pack may have siblings that are better off in the family tent together, so keeping it by family seems to make more sense than by Den.

 

No one else seems to have mentioned the obvious, so I will...someone is BALOO trained, right?

 

I would recommend that you do a 'potluck' style meal. Classic meals such as hotdogs and such tend to go over better with young, first-time campers than stews and more 'experienced' fare.

[fotoscout]

This is exactly what we do every year. It has never been a problem. It is not too much to ask of the den leaders. You will have campers in the group that will step forward to help the den.

 

The problems with allowing each family to cook for itself are numerous. Most notable, non campers will stay home! Second on the list are the simple logistics of moving along with your program. Continuing down the list is the potential for many, TOO MANY stoves, BBQs and ground fires that will occur if you let them all cook for themselves. Kids running all over the place and hot stoves everywhere, not a good thing!

 

In addition, you want to maintain and enhance den cohesion with your camping trip. Turning the trip into a Family camping trip as opposed to a Pack camping trip goes against that thought.

 

 

The meals should be simple, and easy to prepare. Dont get carried away with fancy foods.

 

[Cubmaster Mike]

First remember that the webelos need to plan and cook meals as one requirement for their AOL. Other ranks, wolfs included need to plana nd cook an outdoor meal for acheivements.

 

Recommend that if you have good representation from each den, then let each den be responsible for one meal for the entire pack campout. That way the boys can compare different styles and it challenges them to create meals that get away from beanie-weanies and instant oatmeal.

[Trevorum]

foto, I disagree. Cub Scout camping is family based. It's model is NOT troop camping. It's model is family camping.

[ManassasEagle]

I have to agree, Trevorum. A "Pack Overnighter" (what my BALOO is for) is family camping. Let things be by family although having all the families put stuff out "pot-luck" style sounds like a great idea. A "Webelos Overnighter" (what my WLOT (or whatever they've changed the name to) is for) is where you start getting closer to den camping.

[fotoscout]

Maybe this needs a little more of an explanation.

 

Yes, certainly Pack Camping is a family event for those that want to attend as a family. But a "Pack Family Overnighter" is different than a "Pack Overnighter". Yes, there are some semantics here, but the overall structure and feel of the event are in fact different. In no way, shape or form are any one of these a Troop overnighter.

 

To make it easy I'll describe the extreme of each:

Pack Family Overnighter - We'll be at Happyland State Park for the weekend, join us anytime, bring your own food and games. Setup wherever you want. If there's interest maybe we'll do a big campfire Saturday night.

 

Pack Overnighter - Happyland State Park @ 6:00 Fri. Check with your DL before setting up so we can keep the dens together. Dens will prepare meals and eat together, see your DL for further information. Check agenda and schedule attached for Den and Pack responsibilities for flag ceremonies, activities, campfire, Scouts Own and meal times.

 

The key difference is in maintaining the den structure and not having 10 or 20 or 30 individual families doing their own thing. It should either be a pack activity, lead, structured, and choreographed by the leaders that follows the structure of the program, OR, it could be a bunch of families camping together that happen to be in the same Pack.

 

When we do camping trips one of my favorite lines is, " This is not your family camping trip". Thats because we the leaders are responsible for the success or failure of the outing as a Cub Scout Campout. The outing should look, feel and smell like a Scout campout. It should be distinctly different then your family camping trip. And you can't do that if your trip is just a group of families camping in the same location at the same time, with little or no structure to bind them, and MEALS are the key to that.

 

When the boys go back to the den area of the campsite, they still know that they are a part of CS activity. When they go back to mom and dads campsite, the sense of being on a CS campout is lost, especially for the boys who do going camping with their family.

 

The way I see it is like this, if I'm going to go camping with a bunch of families, and we are all going to do our own meals, impose our own discipline, set our own bedtime, and wake-up times, and if we're going to setup each in our own little area, not sharing anything except a pickup baseball game, then why do it as a pack trip?

 

I'm not sure that I explained this well, but I hope you get the idea.

 

 

[Its Me]

Fotoscout, I agree with your assment.

I would take it a little further in the way the campsite is reserved. If I said we are getting a group of campsites at High-N-Dry State Park and you have to see me for a campsite number. That places different families at different sites. Now maybe two families could share a single site but the distance between campsites would prohibit group cooking or certainly restrict it.

 

But if I said we are getting the youth campsite at High-N-Dry and I expect dens to stay together, then the dens should do meals together.

 

 

 

[Its Me]

hehehehe

 

Fotoscout I am sorry about that. I was in a hurry and the edit feature has now timed out.

 

 

For the record, I agree with Fotoscout's "assessment".

 

 

[Torveaux]

I guess you all camp in places that are spread out a great deal more than I am used to (or your Packs are huge).

 

There is no reason that you cannot have the family tents together, yet still have them all reasonably close to each other.

 

There is no Den Camping for Cubs, only for Webelos and up. If your areas are that far apart, camping by Den would not be appropriate.

 

The families that don't camp will not go along anyway. When I say potluck, I mean maybe mom or dad sends along a side to pass that is kept in the cooler until its time to eat. Cubs are not high adventure camping where they hike in 15 miles before setting up camp. The camp 'cooking' is essentially toasting hotdogs and marshmallows. If you are doing much beyond that with Cubs, you are pushing too hard to make them Boy Scouts before their time. Webelos are a different story.

 

You will either have Den Leaders that are die-hard campers that have no problem with doing it all for the whole den, or you will lose Den Leaders that don't appreciate being turned into something that Den Leaders are not expected to be (again, excepting Webelos).

[ScoutNut]

I agree with Torveaux. When we do Pack camping we encourage the families to all come. We have flag ceremonies, structured activites at certain times, free times, meal times, etc. We also try to be very flexable so that as many of our scouts & their families can attend as possible. We are trying to get the boys & their families interested in the outdoors. To help them discover a love of camping and nature. Or, at the very least, to help them learn to tolerate it!

 

A Pack has boys from 1st grade thru 5th grade. Hopefully, as they get older, the boys (& their families) become better campers & have more respect for nature. That is the point of separate camping training for Webelos Leaders and the ability of Webelos to camp as a Den. However, most of our newer families have done little or no camping at all and some are frankly very nervous about the whole idea.

 

In order to try to include as many as possible we pick Youth campgrounds that include cabins as well as an area for tents. We usually camp for 2 nights with Friday being for the organizers, the more seasoned campers & those that can't stay Sat night. We also camp close enough to home that families can come for the Saturday events, but not stay the night.

 

The places we camp do not have multiple cooking & fire facilites & many families do not have a lot in the way of camping gear. So we do everything as a group. We assign kaper patrols (all family members are included) for different duties to organize everything & stick to mostly simple menus.

 

Having everyone camp in different areas with their Dens. Do all of their cooking & cleaning with only their Dens. And only have all of the Dens come together as a Pack for certain activites, sounds too much like Den Camping to me. What do you do when a family has boys in 2 or more Dens? I have one family with 4 boys. If Mom & Dad each take one that leaves 2 boys who would have to bunk in someone ele's tent. Not to mention having to purchase multiple tents for everyone. Not a good idea.

 

BTW - the BALOO training I took encouraged the camp together as a group way of doing things.

 

[fotoscout]

Scoutnut your camping facilities seem to be different than what is available here. We have no public campgrounds with cabins in this area. Our Youth camping areas are specifically set aside of youth camping, not family camping. That means, that very young are not welcome, and family groups are not allowed. In effect these areas are set aside for Troop Camping.

 

So we dont camp in different areas, we are in the same group site, but we setup as dens. The families in the dens setup next to each other. With or without instruction, I would expect nothing less from a good den. They want to be together! Families with more than one boy in the Pack decide where they want to pitch their tent. As relationships go, this is never a difficult choice for them. As for the non campers, they are surrounded by people they know and have a relationship with.

 

Cooking is always the biggie. We have Packs that pick a weekend and do the Family Camping thing, and we have Packs that setup and manage their own little commercial kitchen for the weekend, feeding 250- 300 people 6 meals over a weekend. By and large most units cook by den and it makes sense. Logistically its doable without a commitment to have people tied up with preparing meals for 300, six times over the weekend. Cost wise there is less waste, how do you plan for the comings and goings of all these families if youre cooking for a group of CS families that dont always show up when and where theyre expected?

 

Then there are the Webelos. Many Webelos dens dont do den camping. Pack trips are the perfect opportunity for them to do the outdoor cooking.

 

Yes Pack camping is family camping, everyone is invited and Baloo does emphasize group cooking because the Pack is an assembly of Groups! They are called Dens. But Baloo does not emphasize a single cooking station for the entire Pack. The logistics of doing this is simply beyond what most Packs could successfully pull off. If you allow the families to team up by themselve to do meals then someone is always left out.

 

By the way, if this were like Troop camping. The sibs would not be there, all the parents would not be there, the parents would not be cooking for the children, and the children would be shopping, cleaning, and almost everything else. The kids would be setup in one area, and the adults would be setup separately from them.

 

[Rixkidz]

Dont rule out the BOX oven... I as a girl scout STILL swear by it today.. sure the dutch oven is always along on camping trips.. but there are so many things the kids can do to PREPARE for it all..

 

1)Firestarters

Collect old candles, shredded paper and cardboard egg cartons.

>>Leaders melt the wax, the kids put the shreadded paper in the eg cartons, then pour the hot wax OVER the paper and let cool....

EACH carton makes 12 firestarters.

 

2)Charcoal Chimneys

Collect metal either pineapples juice containers or metal coffee cans.

>>Remove both ends and use an old can opener to make 6-8 breathing holes on one end (also makes it easier to light thru these holes when thye are put on the bottom.

 

3)Box ovens

Collect a large box (about the size of an apple crate (or bigger then a 9x12 pan) Collect and clean 4 tomato sauce cans. Find an old 9x12 pan or cookie sheet that will fit within the box. Put at least two layers of Aluminum foil on the inside of the box, tape it on the outside with duct tape secure each layer. Put two layers of Aluminum foil (I sugest heavy weight) on the ground ((keep in mind the heat will kill any grass and can crak un sealed asphalt/cement))

 

After heating the charcoal briquets you will need 1 for every 30 degrees (300 degrees on muffin mix requires atleast 10 WHOLE briquets, although I usually use 1 extra) put the briquets ontop of the aluminum foil, then put the four cans down to hold the pan evenly... put your pan with cookies, fudge, muffins, bisquits... etc... ontop of that pan then carefully set the box on top... put a small rock under one corner to vent... when checking to see if it is down remember to LIFT straight up...to NOT allow heat to escape.

 

I do these things with Girl Scouts and my family, some have even crossed over to Cubs..

 

(The egg carton fire starters make awesome Xmas gifts!)

 

PS for out Saturday campout meal we have everyone bring a can of baked beans or chili, then we add to a huge pot.. the Pack supplies the hotdogs, which get made on a stick over the fire.