Getting the rank books to den meetings

[pack330]

I have had two den leaders who have asked me to research how to get the boys to bring their rank books with them to den meetings. The first problem is that the boys forget their Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Webelos books for their den meetings. The den leaders are also having a hard time getting the parents to go through their son's book and sign anything off.(example: electives) The den leaders can't sign books and teach from the books if the boys don't bring their books with them. Some of the excuses are "my mom or dad forget the book" and we have told the den leaders to say that the book isn't the parents job to bring it is their's. With the Webelos, they don't bring their book then they don't get new merit badge pins at the pack meetings. They are now bring their books each meeting. But what do we do with the rest of the dens? We believe that your book is apart of the uniform and so it should be with you at each meeting. We also don't think that the boys should get rewards(ex. pencils, candy, etc.) for bringing the book with them. Any ideas that we can pass along to our den leaders?

[Eamonn]

Post it notes on the cover of the book worked for us. We told the parents that the book was their mail box.

Eamonn

[johndaigler]

Our boys meet right after school, so we have the Cubs use one of those many extra pockets on their bookbags as a permanent home base for their handbooks.

[EagleBeaver]

Would you consider a den level reward that everyone gets on that day that all scouts bring their book? Those scouts that do bring their books might help the others remember through their own special methods of encouragement. :-)

It looks like rewards do work since the Webelos are bringing their books.

 

Paul

 

[pack330]

Eamonn, what do you mean by using post it notes?

 

mn_scout, we are trying to start treating the webelos like a boy scout. if they don't bring their book to their den leader then as far as the den leader sees it, they haven't done the work. That is how our Scotmaster works the troop. Can we do the same with Bears, Wolf, etc.? If the den leader doesn't see the book, then at the end of the year, that boy doesn't get his rank. Keeping in mind that we would announce this at the next den meeting. Any more ideas?

[EagleBeaver]

The goal of the Webelos program is to transition cub scouts to boy scouts so starting to 'treat them like boy scouts' is the right direction. But, keep in mind they are not yet boy scouts and probably do not have the maturity to take on all the responsibilities expected of boy scouts. In Webelos, the den leader signs off the book rather than the parent - that's a big step, and an important one to move responsibility to the scout. Also, each activity badge is an option to be earned or not, much like merit badges - with a couple required ones for the Webelos rank badge similar to required merit badges for Eagle.

 

With Wolfs and Bears, a den leader needs to see the sign-offs in the book so that s/he can request the advancement recognition items (badges, beads, ...) from the Pack advancement chairman. If your den leaders are using the 'Progress Towards Ranks' beads, those scouts that do bring their books and fulfill the requirements will get something on their uniforms that the others do not have. That should be some positive motivation.

Another possible motivator is to use the 'Rank Advancement Chart' where each completed activity is tracked. If a den leader has this at each den meeting and asks to see books so activities can be marked off, that might help.

 

Whatever you decide to do, I'd definitely recommend NOT coming to the end of the year and then announcing that a scout does not get his rank. His status should be known by he and his parents all the way through the year so it is not a surprise at the end.

 

Paul

 

[ScoutNut]

I can't say that I agree with not giving the boys awards or rank that they have earned (and that the den leader knows they have earned) just because they have not brought their book to every den meeting.

 

For Tiger thru Bear, yes, without the book you can not give them awards they have earned at home that you do not know about. You can however give them their beads for achievements that they have done in den meetings and any activity patches they have earned with the den. The beads can be given either at the end of the den meeting (preferred for instant recogniion) or at the next Pack meeting (a tradition in some units). It is up to the den leader to keep records on his/her end of the achievements and electives that they know have been completed. The boy's books can be updated with den accomplishments if/when he brings it to a meeting.

 

I try to keep reminding my boys and families on things that they need to be doing. I always collect their books (with advance notice) 2 weeks before the Pack meeting so I can take them home and go thru them. As the year goes on, reminders go home that in order to earn rank the boys need to do, and have signed off in book, achievements # X, # Y, and # Z. I had one poor fellow last year who did not earn his rank because some achievements never got done at home. I explained everything to his parents and they understood. He is still in scouts and happily working on his next rank.

 

For Webelos, the den leader keeping good records is even more important because most of the boys activites are done with the den. I really could not go along with withholding Webelos Activity pins that have been earned. That is against BSA policy for Cubs, Webelos or Boy Scouts.

 

The Webelos' book, like the Boy Scout's handbook, is not and should not be the only record of their progress. It should be used mainly as a record for the Scout so he knows where he is, NOT as a record for the Den Leader or Scoutmaster. The Webelos Den Leader or Troop Advancement person should be keeping their own records of what has been earned by the Scout. Rank should NEVER be withheld, at any level, after it has been earned.

 

The den leaders should also not be using the boy's handbooks like school textbooks. Yes, there is a lot of information in them, but there are other, much more fun ways, of getting the ideas across to the boys than simply reading about it in their handbooks! If they are using the handbook for a reference, and some boys do not have theirs, they can always share. After all, they do promise "To help other people"!

 

 

[NewCubDad]

I'm struggling with the same issue as Pack330 with my wolf den.

 

As a new den, we've got families that aren't fully 'trained' about what the book represents. At each meeting I try to talk to the parents and the boys and reinforce the need to do the activities in the book as a family (we even send home suggestions of things they can do together at home after each meeting.)

 

So far we're having little success (only 3 'real' meetings so far) but I'm going to devote some extra time at the next meeting to address this.

 

First, I went and bought the progress chart ($1.25 at the scout store)

 

Towards the end of the meeting I will unveil the chart and quickly go through a handbook with the boys and their parents. (focusing on the really easy achievement steps and encouraging parents to sign the books)

 

We'll end with the 'Feats of Skill' and stage some bear, crab & elephant walk races as well as playing catch. (we don't have a safe place for them to do somersaults, so I'll encourage them to show their parents how well they can do them at home). And since I know of at least one boy who has 3 achievements (my son) I'll fill in the chart for him (and the other boys who've completed achievements) and award the first progress bead.

 

My hope is that at the first den meeting in January the boys will not only have their books, but they will have completed (and gotten Akela's OK) at least 3 achievements.

 

Hopefully this will show both the boys and the parents how easy it is to progress down the trail and increase their perceived 'value' of bringing the books with them to the meetings - which would mean fewer 'forgotten' books.

[pack330]

I hadn't thought of using the "progress toward rank" beads. We do use the Tiger beads but should we not give out the white bead for family activity if they didn't bring their books? Isn't the book to be apart of their uniform requirements? We aren't saying that we would withhold rank without working with the parent. We all know that there are some parents/Cub Scouts who sign up and don't attend meetings/etc. We also use the charts in our den meetings so the parents and Cub Scouts can keep track of how they are doing. Does anyone bring them to the pack meetings to show them off? Does anyone look at them? We have found that the Webelos are bringing their books more and are starting to focus on what bagdes they want to earn as well as the ones that the den leader is currently working on. She even is using our new website to have them look up stuff in their books and report back to her what they find. I agree with ScoutNut that the book isn't to be used as a school lesson but it is there to help with ideas, lessons, etc. I have found that my girl scout parents hate not having a book to help them help their daughters. Is it all about "training" the parent?

[Eagledad]

>>I really could not go along with withholding Webelos Activity pins that have been earned. That is against BSA policy for Cubs, Webelos or Boy Scouts.>The Webelos' book, like the Boy Scout's handbook, is not and should not be the only record of their progress.

[pamchuckm]

I was never successful in training the parents, and it also annoyed me at having to thumb through 10 or 11 so books when it came down to the wire on awards day. With the help of some wonderful person(s) who took the time to post their tracking tools on the internet for free, I downloaded several excel spreadsheets that I used to track each scout's achievements in ONE place. The only downfall is that you need MicroSoft's Excel Software!

 

Now, I just send a copy of each scout's record home with my monthly newsletter asking each parent to update their son's achievements. This saved me time from having to re-look over the same pages time and time again for 11 books! And the parents can take the time to update the book when they are updating their calendars with the info in my newsletter!

 

Here's the links:

 

http://pack183.nwsc.org/files/bearDen.xls

http://pack183.nwsc.org/files/webDen.xls

http://pack183.nwsc.org/files/wolfDen.xls

 

Pam Meyer

Pack 4201

Green Bay, WI

 

 

 

[NewCubDad]

Ah yes, the infamous Pack 215 virtual handbook tools. I've got them, too! Though there is a summary progress chart at the back of the handbooks. If the scout is 'coloring' the paw prints as he completes each activity, then you could just transfer that information to your spreadsheet instead of flipping through each page.

 

 

 

pack330, if the handbook is considered a part of the uniform, how about a uniform inspection at the beginning of a meeting or two to stress that point? I wouldn't punish those not 'in uniform,' just praise those who have a complete uniform.

 

 

I hadn't planned on bringing the progress chart to the pack meeting - the progress towards rank beads will convey the progress the boys have/havn't made. We've got one other wolf den & I'm sort of hoping for a friendly rivalry to start up - even though we're at a disadvantage because all of them were Tigers last year & none of my boys were.

 

ScoutNut & Eagledad make good points for the older boys. For 7-8 yr olds new to scouting I'm going to make this extra effort to get them to learn the expectations.

 

If they're having the same problems in 2 years, then I'd have to question my consistency in enforcing the rules and helping them to learn to abide by them.

[ScoutNut]

"If the book is not signed, has the pin been earned?"

 

In the case of a Webelos who attended the den meetings when they earned the pin - YES!

 

Weather he had his book with him or not, he was there, he did the work, he earned the pin. Both the boy and the leader knows he earned the pin. According to BSA the award should be given to the boy at the next available opportunity. To withhold the pin until the leader can sign the boy's book is wrong IMO and adding a requirement.

 

For a Tiger's Family Achievements, of course you can not give out beads if you don't know they have been earned. As I said above, I had a boy who did not earn his rank because his family did not do the Family Achievements with him. However, I know what we do each week at our Den meetings. I also know who was at each Den meeting. Weather or not I have had an opportunity to sign their books off, the boys still get the awards for the things that I know they have done. When I do get their books I update all of the areas that I know they have finished and add to my records anything new they have had signed off. We also use a Den flag/totem so the boys have a more visual way to see where they are. I really dislike those paper sheets from BSA that you color in. The boys like the beads hanging from their paw print on the den flag much better!

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

>> Weather he had his book with him or not, he was there, he did the work, he earned the pin. Both the boy and the leader know he earned the pin. According to BSA the award should be given to the boy at the next available opportunity. To withhold the pin until the leader can sign the boy's book is wrong IMO and adding a requirement.

[ScoutNut]

"But if we are cutting corners and developing a bad habit or policy just to skip steps, the scout looses because that is not the real world."

 

Who said anything about "cutting corners" or "skipping steps"? We are talking about withholding an earned award from a scout. That is against BSA policy.

 

It seems we will just have to agree to disagree.