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I've been reading this and other similar posts with much interest.


Eagle90 - Some of this topic seems to be similar an earlier initiated by Bob White:




By following a similar process to the one Bob suggests might help define jobs, roles and boundaries for these people.


For my own benefit pls - is there a list of adult positions within or attached to Scout Troops that includes job descriptions? I ask because we DO NOT have a tradition of parents being involved as you do. You seem to have 120 000 different recognised jobs for adults and I can't figure out what they involve. Could be useful to me.

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Eagle90, I know this is getting off the point of the original thread, but I have a question about this statement:


We do have a boy-run troop - WITHIN BOUNDARIES. Whatever they do must be approved by either myself as SM or the appropriate committee person involved. We do have to veto some ideas, but for the most part they are pretty good at knowing what will and will not fly.


My Boy Scout experience comes from being a youth member, plus a few months as an 18-year-old ASM, a number of years ago. I have been a Cub Scout leader, but of course that does not require being versed in the intricacies of boy leadership. (Which I suspect is a large part of your problem with the type-A former Cub leaders; they just aren't used to an organization where they are unable to use all of their leadership skills and experience, because the boys are doing the leading.) So, with my son less than a year from crossover, I am trying to learn exactly how the "boy run" principle is applied in practice. In this and other online forums, I have seen a number of different conceptions of what "boy run" means.


So based on your comments above, I wonder the following: What kinds of decisions by the boys are vetoed by you or the committee? Can you give specific examples? And what kinds of things do you think the boys don't even propose because they have learned they "will not fly"? Do you only veto things that violate BSA rules and regs (including Guide to Safe Scouting)? Or do you go beyond that? Or is it more often a matter of boys proposing trips that are non-feasible financially or logistically?


Anyone feel free to answer. I will have Boy Scout-specific training around the time my son crosses over, but I'd like some perspectives from this group.


On your initial issue, I think others have given you some great suggestions. I would observe that knowing how to make best use out of adult volunteers, and how to avoid getting them disgruntled so they walk out in a huff or just drift away, is probably among the most difficult skills for any leader. My own Cubmaster rates a C-minus (at best) in this category. And that is with too few volunteers, not "too many" as you have.

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Excellent questions! These are the things I wish they could cover in New Leader Training. Ya new learders need to know about paperwork and finance, and membership but knowing how other leaders solved their problems and tips on how to deliver program from people currently delivering program would benifit them more.

First off let me explain our approach to supervising the PLC. The Committee must approve the calandar for the comming year or preferably comming 18 months. Permits and reservations take time and people need to get things on their calandar well in advance. The PLC must provide enough opportunities for the scouts working on Tendefoot thru First Class to achieve their rank requirements. If you have eight boys in a patrol you'll need eight campouts for each boy to (2nd. Class 2b.) select your patrol site (1st Class 4e.) serve as your patrol's cook . We have vetoed calandars that didn't address these needs. Campouts to places where activities precluded advancment must be limited to no more than two per twelve month period. The boys have a copy of the Guide to Safe Scouting and know what not to even ask about. If the PLC wants to schedual a 20 mile hike to allow boys to earn hiking merit badge it must take the place of one of the "fun" outings. We try to allow the boys to do anything that is not strictly forbidden as long as those seeking advancement have the opportunity


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NJCubScouter - I vetoe what is illegal, is way outside parental income or our own fundraising and things that are unsafe. Usually I give boundaries or 'before you go there firstly you need to...' statements that the Scouts use to create workable plans and modifications.


My Scouts (remember our oldest are 14) wanted to:


go hang-gliding. Vetoed - not a Scout approved activity.


go overseas. Accepted and are we working hard!


form a third patrol. Accepted with advice that they were short of adequate numbers - now some Patrols are finding camps very hard as one drop out makes a big gap.


to tell off one of the boys because of his behaviour. Accepted and I warned the parents quickly.


go ten pin bowling. I advised them about cost, relevence to the program they wrote earlier that meeting and they decided against. Yes I influenced that one a lot because they were straying outside there own policy and parents had been talking to me about costs.


Personally I let the Scouts go much further than their parents are sometimes comfortable with. I spend quite a bit of time reassuring parents and providing an adult presence without actually being noticed by the Scouts. Yes I have stood behind bushes as Patrols have hiked past! I also drop ideas in the melting pot around campfires etc.


For a non-Scout study of what young people can handle see:


C. Mortlock, The Adventure Alternative, Cicerone Press, Cumbria, 1987


Sorry I don't know how you might get it outside a University library.





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NJ - We basically veto any items that are financially or logistically impractical.


The Filet Mignon on a campout (or to the other extreme, three meals of PB&J!)


A campout that is a 5 hour drive during a questionable weather month.


Camping over Memorial Day weekend would be too crowded.


No, you can't camp on Easter weekend!




After a few of these vetoes, they catch on pretty quick and know what to suggest and what no to suggest.




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