Jet skis at summer camp

[prairie]

Seems the Pros just wanted some cool toys to play with when they are supposed to be working.

 

I should find out just what this "Innovation Council" purpose is.

 

edit update: found this

 

http://www.cornhuskercouncil.org/news/?id=511

 

(This message has been edited by prairie)

[BSAquatics]

BSA is allowing 2 summer camps to run pilot programs with PWC (Blue Ridge Mountains Council being one) "AND" 2 other summer camps to run pilot programs for ATVs (I think Camp Raven Knob is one, but put off running the pilot program until 2010).

 

Looking at this solely from a Program stand point PWCs and ATVs are great additions to the BSA Program. Retaining older scouts is always a difficult task for units and scouting as a whole, and honestly there is very little in scouting that does not have considerable risk involved that has to be taken into account.

 

Certainly, there are plenty of very legitimate safety concerns and the finances would be a mess. However, we should not give up on improving the BSA program without giving everything our best try and I believe that is what these pilot programs are meant to do.

[asichacker]

PWC's an ATV's with pre-teen and teenagers?

 

No how, no way!

 

Let's remember here that the human brain does not analyze potential long-term consequences of decisions until the mid-20's.

 

From my own observations, I have never seen a PWC operated in a safe manner where the operator was aware and considerate of other in the area.

[sailingpj]

"Let's remember here that the human brain does not analyze potential long-term consequences of decisions until the mid-20's."

 

I'm sorry, but that is a blanket statement that simply doesn't apply to everyone. I am 16 and I have been analyzing the potential long-term consequences of my decisions for a while now. Many of my friends also think in the long term. I am tired of all teenagers getting a bad rap from people saying things like this. That applies to the jet skis too. I am sure there are plenty of good safe jet skiers. I have met a few of them, but they all get a bad name because the jet ski is a popular vessel for the inexperienced to take out. That is mainly because it is simple to operate when compared to many other kinds of boats.

 

I personally don't like jet skiers. Some of them have caused a good bit of trouble for me. Two of them stopped in front of our boat (48 foot sailboat, 6 foot draft, full keel, doesn't make rapid turns) and started talking to each other. We were on a river and because of the other traffic we were forced out of the channel and had to wait a couple hours for the tide to raise so we could get off the mud.

 

As for them at a summer camp, that is not a good idea. There are many safer and more fun activities than a jet ski. Just buy some lasers. You can get new ones fully loaded for less than $6000 each. You can learn a lot about the finer points of sailing on a laser. I have yet to experience a greater rush than when just a little up from a beam reach in 30kts.

[Engineer61]

Wow....really?

 

Not with my kid you don't.

 

His teacher was nearly killed, now a paraplegic, after an ATV accident 2 years ago.

 

Also, my health insurance does not cover accidents for "risky activities" of which off road vehicles and PWC's are named specifically.

[Oak Tree]

Scouts can earn the motorboating merit badge at some summer camps. So jet skis seem to be more a matter of degree. I think that I'd avoid them, though. In a motorboat you always have an adult with you. It depends, as always, on how things are implemented. With enough safety margin, it might work ok. We do let Scouts shoot shotguns.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Four years ago, I helped the pack at my children's school with their school night for scouting (not the pack my son is in). There was one particular boy (and father) whom I helped recruit. He stood out because at the same time I "recuited" his neighbor who is a friend of mine.

 

Two years ago, the boy and his father were ATVing (not at a scouting event), and the boy was thrown from the ATV and was killed when his neck was broken. He was wearing a helmet. The boy was in my daughter's class, and she was very upset about it for some time.

 

As a boater, I have come to dislike jetskiis for the same reason that it is obvious that a very large percentage of operators treat the vehicles with a dangerously casual disregard. Rarely do these vehicles injure or kill others; casualties are generally the operator.

 

I will adamently object to these activities; I will not lead them, even if apporoved at some point in the future, and I will not sign a permission slip for my son to partake of these activities.

[Phibbles]

I would agree, that these are not activities that a troop or pack should partake in on their own. Too much liability and too much risk that someone will run without proper traing.

 

But, I would be okay with a scout camp offering a course in these activities. I would imagine BSA and the camp would put in place plenty of safety and operational instruction before the scout would be allowed to touch the machine. Perhaps they would only be allowed to purchase machines that run at controlled, lower speeds (like a Disney ride). The same way I trust the BSA to run a "safe" rifle and archery program, I would trust them to run a safe ATV or PWC program.

 

I would not be in favor of a camp letting just any scout hop on one with a mere 5 minute instruction speech like you might get on vacation somewhere.

[Twocubdad]

Like it or not, they're here.

 

According to a guy at region, three councils each have been approved for ATVs and PWCs. In our region, East Carolina and Blue Ridge Mountain both have the PWC pilot programs. Mecklenburg County Council is testing the ATVs at Camp Grimes. I don't recall where the others went. My understanding is that both programs are for a two year test before the Innovations Council makes a recommendations one way or the other.

 

According to our program director, the RFP for the programs was pretty tough. The programs have to meet federal, state, BSA and manufactures requirements for usage. Here that would mean the boys would have to have (or earn) state operators license for both programs. National was also looking hard at facilities. For the ATVs they wanted a dedicated training area and existing riding trails separate from hiking trails at the camp. For the PWCs they wanted private lakes large enough to run the PWCs separate from the other aquatics programs. And, of course, there was the financial commitment to buy the toys -- ballpark $50,000.

[Scoutfish]

I live 100 yards off the intracoastal waterway in Surf City, NC

I have at one time, owned 3 boats at once and now own only 1 .

My father was in the USCG, so I learned alot about boating, boat operation, and boat safety.I have spent my entire life living no more than 4 miles to the closest ocean, waterway or river. Not sure about lakes.

 

I spent nearly 12 years as a volunteer firefighter/EMS/ EWater Rescue Technition.

 

PWC's are just like any thing else: They are safe vehicles IF operated the way they are supposed to be.

 

They are only as safe at the person operating them.

 

Over the years, I have seen DUI's and death by DUI on a riding mower. No I am not kidding!I have seen 5,ooo pound weapons ( also known as cars) kill and main innocent peole due to the draiving habits of the operators.

 

Remember the big stories about Jeeps being accident prone in the late 80's early 90's?

 

I used to own a "81 Jeep CJ-5 Renegade. It had the shorter wheelbase than the CJ-7 or Scrambler, thus was "supposed" to be even more dangerous.

 

Well, I never had a single or potential incident in my Jeep because I drove my Jeep in a way that fit the vehicle - I drove within the limitations of that vehicle.

 

PWC's are exactly the same. Sure,they go fast and jump waves and boat wakes pretty nicely. But do not blame the PWC itself for skimming along as fast as it can less than 20 foot from a bunch of kids swimming in knee deep water . Do not blame the jet ski for zig zagging around boats piloting through a limited channel.Don't blame PWC's for suddenly turning around in front of your boat. Don't blame any object for the inability of the operators mentality, attention span or common sense.

 

 

I see and hear about car and truck accident on hiways way more than the water - ten fold.

 

Now as far as PWC's at BSA camps...well, I don't know, call me old fashioned, but I thought part of the whole camp experience was to get away from modern technology. No, I'm not against cabin lights or even hot water heaters for showers, but leave IPOD's, Gameboys, Lap Tops ( except for the program, scout records and promotions and advancement, etc..) home!

 

Go hiking, go swimming, go canoeing or just sit on your butt and enjoy the sound of no motors and smell the fresh air.

 

! Like I said, I have one and used to have 3 boats, but use a paddle if you want that boat to go.

 

I have no issue with PWC's for EMS or life guard functons either. I'd rather get to that distressed boater or swimmer faster than traditionally.

 

Just don't blame a human controlled object for human stupidity. That's just a cop out!

 

I also have no issue with a "PWC safety" training during a specific field trip or a specific PWD safety camp. Why not instill proper operating procedures to these guys while they are younger and might actually retain that knowledge.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

[Eagle92]

Ok My council is one of the pilot's, East Carolina, and the scuttlebut is that it is A) part of the Pamlico Sea Base, the council's HA base and thus subject to HA regs, i.e. 13y.o. by Jan 1 of year participating and First Class, etc. and B) they will be following some guidelines very strictly.

[Engineer61]

Wow...what a stupid idea.

 

It really does sound like a bunch of thrill junkies.

 

How is BSA going to handle all the injury lawsuits...because waivers or not, they will be flying in by the truckloads.

[Twocubdad]

The same way the handle the lawsuits generated by aquatics, climbing, shooting sports and the other programs.