Lucy Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 We are going to camp in Tennessee from Florida. We also lost a couple of active parents with pick up trucks, SUV's and minivans who in the past were willing to drive to camp. Short of renting a passenger van for about 900 bucks a week, does anyone have any recommendations? Our CO isn't going to let us borrow their buses because they need them during the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Welcome to the Forums. We can give you some ideas, but we really need a little more info than what you've given us... How many Scouts are going? How many adults? How many seatbelts do you already have committed? How many are you short? Do you have a Troop Trailer? Is it accounted for in towage? Have you talked to parents who are not going to Scout Camp and asked for their help? Have you talked to your chartered Partner about TWO ROUND TRIPS with their busses: Out on Sunday and back the following Saturday? Have parents started asking friends and neighbors for a helping hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Pay cents per mile; it costs more to run a car than to fill the gas tank. 30 cents per sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 18 kids going, four adults. It will take them two days to drive there. Yes, we have a trailer. We have NO plans for vehicles yet!! Take my hubby's 14 year old Jeep Cherokee as the tow vehicle, and risk a little? All the parents have been notified and nobody's stepped up. We have one parent with a 12 passenger van but he needs it for his family (they have six kids). All the minivan parents don't want to relinquish their vehicles. We couldn't even rent it from them! The CO'd rather not put miles on their vehicles. The Youth Group from the church is taking a summer trip, I have emailed their director and asked her what they are doing for transpo, waiting on her reply. Thanks for the Welcome! I am the new Troop Treausure so I feel it's part of my responsibility to help us save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Looks like you're out of options. 1. Give all the parents a map and tell them it's their responsibility to get Junior to camp. 2. Cancel the trip and go to your local council camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Hi Lucy, and welcome. This is a tough question. We're facing a similar problem with a couple of parents who had committed to driving to summer camp backing out last minute. In one case, the rising price of gas caused a family to decide to combine summer camp with a family trip, leaving us in need of another driver. I can't really blame the family involved, but I sure wish they'd decided to do this weeks or months ago and not the day before we were planning to turn in our national tour permit paperwork! Unfortunately I do not have a good answer to your question. We've been looking at renting a van (9-12 passenger) as well, but it is expensive as you say. On the plus side, a van might mean as many as three fewer cars/drivers for your group. It is possible that you could come out close to even when you consider that you would probably be reimbursing each driver 30 cents/mile or so, or at least for the cost of gas. Whatever you do, I do want to make sure you are aware that if you are traveling over 500 miles (you mention 2 days of driving so you probably are) that you need that national tour permit done and submitted no less than a month in advance of your trip. Also, if you are thinking of renting a larger van (15+ passengers) the national tour permit requires that you have someone with a commercial license to drive it. Just a heads up in case you didn't know, since we're dealing with all of the same issues right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Hi again, Lucy, First, Lisa is absolutely right about the National Tour Permit!!! Second, you need 22 passenger seat belts. You may need additional seat belts for driving. While what is done is done, when your PLC selected this camp a year ago and more, was transportation a planning consideration? I think your SM should drive the lesson home to them, AND TO THE TROOP COMMITTEE, in the aftermath. The Committee's job is to resource the program. OK, options, in no particular order: - Contact the local bus company (school or charter): What is their cost to do a r/t to take you up, and another to take you home? Bus companies can and do pre-position drivers so the trip can continue without a overnight stop for the passengers. - Be blunt with parents: This camp gets cancelled if you don't step up to the plate. You will not get 100 cents on the dollar back; the camp will take a cancellation cut. You will pay more to send your Scout to the local Council camp. I WOULD RECOMMEND THE SENIOR PATROL LEADER BE THE ONE TO BE THE 'BAD COP' IN THIS CASE. If we are empowering the youth to design and execute the program, we also commit to supporting them in that... and this has been known camp for a year! - I would ask the 12 pax van family if they are willing to shuttle in return for gas $$$. That gets you 11 seatbelts of the 22 you need. - Four adults going; that's in theory 4 cars. That could be up to 12 additional seat belts. How many seat belts there? Frankly, I'm loath to go the cancellation route if you can possibly avoid it. Scouts will quickly get the point that your Troop is "Adult-Run." You'll find they stop taking iniative on things quickly. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottteng Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I would pursue the rental option depending on where you are in Florida (nearest large airport) you can get decent prices on 12 passenger vans $421 week in my area. Rent two have 10 scouts and two adults in each that way there are two drivers who can shift out and reduce total travel time. The per person cost should run cheaper this way than paying 30 cents per mile for five passenger vehicles one adult 4 scouts and be safer in long run with two adults each vehicle to split driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Scotteng, Yes, there should be two adults to share the driving burden, but that cannot extend the driving day. As I recall, 750 miles is the very extreme of a one-day drive; it may be shorter. As I thought further of Lisa's post on the National Tour Permit, we should commend Lucy to Tours and Expeditions, BSA Pub 33737D. This is the source pub for the National Tour Permit, and contains policy level information.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottteng Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 At least with two drivers you will get the 10 hours allowed in, there are not many who will drive 10 hours with a car full of scouts. If I were considering this trip my first act would be to map quest a route from the meeting place to the camp that would give me the exact mileage to be traveled. Our troop recently did a trip and when we map quested we were pleasantly surprised that the distance was only 490 miles eliminating the national tour permit that we had all assumed would be required BTW that was 9 hours with a stop for lunch. I still think the Vans are a better bet and they can use the 15 passenger job's the rule on cdl is over 15. So if someone has a large SUV with 7 belts they could use that and rent only one 15 passenger and pull the troop trailer with the suv most rental outfits frown on pulling trailers with their vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Lucy, pass on all this good logistics info to the troop committee outings and activities coordinator and remind him to attach receipts to his expense report when he submits it to you (the treasurer) for reimbursement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisabob Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Scott is right that you only need a commercial license for a van that is designed to carry more than 15 people. Here's the wording on the tour permit - pretty clear in this instance: "If the vehicle to be used is designed to carry more than 15 persons (including driver), the driver must have a commercial drivers license (CDL)." If you are thinking of renting a van, you might check to see if any local rental companies or local dealerships can give you a deal. Several years ago (before I was involved) our troop took a cross country trip in vans that were donated by a local Ford dealership. That dealership is the first place many of our leaders go when looking for a new vehicle these days, I'm told as a direct result. They might say no but it can't hurt to ask, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 a few things: Scott: we are in the Tampa Bay area. Can you let me know via pm or here where you got the quote? I just got more involved when our youngest crossed over in March. The other Treasurer was in that position for like 20 years. We have a new SM this year too. Lots of changes. I know the SM, the CommitteeChairman, and two of the ASMs are working on the other logistics as is their responsibility I assume? The two ASM's and the CC have mucho years experience but the new SM is on a learning curve. So I *think* we're all good to go. We just need transportation. Hubby and I were previously Cub Leaders. This is a whole new ballgame!! We're more involved with the troop now because we have more time the Cubs are done with. We have an older son in the troop, but weren't involved to this extent. ***ahhhhh!!!!!!*** I know at least one of those ASM's has a CDL. ummm..... I'll see what I can find. AT the last meeting, I mentioned, why don't we just stick them all on a Greyhound bus???? I heard of one troop from here who went to Washington via Amtrak. nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-in-KC Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Scotteng, Good points. Lucy, Thanks for your most recent post! You're actually doing the right thing of looking for cost-effective ways for the Troop to get to camp. The Committee's job is to resource the program. If you've not taken the opportunities, may I suggest the following training: - New Leader Essentials. - Troop Committee Challenge (position specific package for the TC member). - Merit Badge Counselor (I assume you are already youth protection current). Please, keep us informed as this gets to a conclusion on go-to-camp day!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottteng Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Another lesson don't overlook the airlines. Southwest has an internet special one way from Tampa to Nashville for $49 one way. With several daily non stops. Has to be booked in advance and the special price seats run out quick. Summer camp lends itself to booking in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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