Personal Locator Beacons

[eagleSM]

 

 

To All:

 

have any of you started to use PLB's in your High Adventure Activities?

 

if so, have you found cost effective units for your boys, to carry as individuals?

 

being from the Old School, give me a map and compass any day. but yet, what is your opinion as to the modern-day use of such technology? IMHO, recent events in remote areas indicate that this type of technology could be a life-saver for our boys.

 

looking forward to see other folks comments who like Venture off the beaten path...

 

ESM

[Twocubdad]

Are you talking about EPIRBs? I've yet to see one much under $1000. The ones I'm familiar with are marine grade. Are you talking about something different?

[hops_scout]

Right now, they're too much for each scout. I'd much rather take that money and purchase radios, whistles, and other survival equipment that would be better suited for use by boys. I have seen them for 250ish I believe in a Scout magazine, dont remember which one.

 

Also, just drill,drill,drill the buddy system in and we shouldnt have the problems.

 

 

[kenk]

I'm a big fan of http://www.equipped.com . It is a not-for-profit web site decicated to emergency survival (typically for about 72 hours).

 

They have reviews of current PLBs and many tips for making survival kits. Take note of their forum which packs a lot of related knowledge.

 

I've been reading Cody Lundin's book (mentioned on the web site, but not related to them). I really focuses on the fragility of life and the need to plan ahead to give yourself a chance to survive.

 

Right now - due to the cost - I can envision having one ELB for an entire group of people, but I can't imagine every individual carrying one. On the other hand, if hell breaks loose and you really really need emergency help, 2K won't seem like much cost.

[Eamonn]

I need to do a better job of keeping up with the times. I had never heard about a PLB, before now.

I can't see too many units around my area buying one, because of the cost. However if they were going into more rugged terrain then we have around here and these were available for rent. I think that they might be interested.

Still with a $25k fine for setting it off by mistake, I know of a few Lads who I would have second thoughts about them being the ones entrusted to carry it. Come to think of it I know a few adults as well!!

Eamonn

[scoutingagain]

While the PLBs may be expensive many of our scouts have purchased the Family Service Radios. It is not uncommon for 50 - 60 % of our troop to go into the field with these things. We use the type with the availability of sub-channels so there is little interference with others in the area that may also have the radios. We have found them to be useful in communicating among patrols, groups etc. On a hike we will frequently break up into two or three groups, the Rabbits, that want to travel fast, some in the middle and then those that bring up the rear. The radios, allow the three groups to stay in touch with each other. I make sure my son has one, and I carry one. If he ends up in a different group than me, I can stay in touch with him. If either one of us is separated, a search party would only need to get within a mile or two of us to communicate.

Depending on the type of radio they claim to have a range of 2 - 5 miles. On a typical 5-10 mile hike it is very rare that one group will get out of range of the others. These radios are very inexpensive, (approx. $25-$35ea) and I have found them to be suprisingly sturdy. They also work in areas where there is no cell phone service. We have used them in winter, in the rain and in the summer heat.

 

SA

[kenk]

Just to clarify, the personal locator beacon is very different from a radio (FRS or any other kind).

 

When the PLB signal is initiated, they send signals to satellites which are then relayed to a mission control center -- essentially a 911 center that will arrange for appropriate rescue.

 

The PLB signal actually works to determine the location of the beacon and broadcasts that location to the mission control center. Some PLBs actually aquire GPS position and relays that information.

 

Think of it as a 24/7 access to a 911 center with automatic location capability. Even if the user passes out after starting the beacon, help will arrive.

 

Read more at http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp .

 

I think back to a trip to the Boundary Waters that a group of six of us took when we were in college. Two of the guys in the group started climbing a dead tree that had fallen on a live tree. They were trying to saw limbs off to free the live tree. One of the guys was the only one who knew the route back home (that alone was stupid). I often wonder what would have happened if he had fallen and seriously hurt himself. How would we have gotten help for him? Likely two or four of us would have gone for help while the guy's wife likely would have stayed behind with him. How long would it have taken? I figure at least two days.

 

If we had a PLB, help could have been on the way in minutes. What a difference!! Easily worth the $1000.

[hops_scout]

Personally, I think that troops should look into buying a PLB or two and taking them along on campouts.

 

2 ways are totally different. I also think that they should be carried. I think that if I go to summer camp next summer I may try getting everybody to have one so that we know where everybody is at all times. They are even cheaper than mentioned above. They can be had for as low as 10 bucks at Walmart and they are also decent radios. You just have to be careful though because the newer radios have the GMRS which require a license. FRS radios do not.

 

 

[ozemu]

PLB's are too much for us too. Instead I intend to hire a satelite phone for each group. That way we can get/give advice that might get the team to safety without putting up $1000's in search aircraft etc. Prevention is my aim.

[acco40]

I used to fly many years ago. All private aircraft are required to have an emergency locating tranmitter, ELT, (I forgot the name, someone help me out) on board. These "go-off" when the plane experiences high g loads (i.e. a crash) and can be activiated manually. They transmitter a signal so downed aircraft can be easily located.

 

They have been around for over 30 years so I'm guessing the cost is not very high.

 

Can anyone else shed more light on this topic?

[SeattlePioneer]

I suggest that a decent acquaitance with Scout Skills will do a lot more to protect backcountry travelers than a trailerful of electronic gadgets.

 

Frankly, the only time I'd really have much real need for a GPS receiver is while navigating my boat through a fog bank or traveling in whiteout conditions on a glacier.

 

98% of the time a map is all you need, and the other 2% of the time a compass is useful. An insignificant part of the time a GPS receiver would be really helpful.

 

In the two helecopter evacuations I've assisted with in a small way, both got people out to solicit help fairly rapidly. Really time critical evacuations are relatively rare.

 

The best way to avoid problems is to be well trained and reasonably equipped. More efficient ways to solicit help don't seem important to me, and would probablky encourage more poorly trained and equipped parties to try things they shouldn't do.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

[fgoodwin]

SP, like you, I'm a great believer in an ounce of prevention being worth a pound of cure.

 

But I'm also a realist -- and the realist in me knows that while BSA talks a lot about prevention (buddy system, YPT, health & safety, etc.), it does next to nothing in terms of teaching a boy (or adult, for that matter) what to do if they actually get lost.

 

So, while it is important to train boys not to get lost in the first place, that training won't do him a darn bit of good in the event he gets lost anyway.

 

I think we need to deal with that reality, rather than thinking training will make it go away. And one way to deal with that (potential) reality is a PLB.

 

A map & compass would certainly help, if the boy knows how to use it. But moving violates the basic tenet of "stay put" when one is lost, especially if you don't know where you are and don't know how to read a map or use a compass.

 

As someone smarter than me once said, PLBs take the "search" out of "search & rescue". So I think they are worth looking into, once they get to be more affordable.

 

[SeattlePioneer]

Sorry fgoodwin, I don't agree.

 

"When they get affordable," what will probably happen is that the system will rapidly become overwhelmed with beacons going off, perhaps degrading the system to the point where it can't function.

 

And your comment that Scouts don't practice enough what to do if you do get lost, my suggestion is to start doing some practice. When on a hike, have a boy hide behind a tree and find out how long it is before his absence is noted and he is found by his patrol or troop. Do that a few times, and they will get the idea.

 

To me, a Scout hike isn't a walk in the park. It's a way to get from one outdoor problem that boys have to solve using Scouting skills to another.

 

 

 

Seattle Pioneer

 

 

 

[fgoodwin]

SP: my point wasn't what the rest of the patrol or troop does when a boy is missing -- my point is, what does the missing boy do?

 

Do you know what to do if lost? Does your son or the other boys in your troop know?

[hacimsaalk12]

we, in our troop, have no form of PLB's. basically they aer to expensive. we do stress the buddy system, when it is neccessary (hiking, biking, things where we are spread apart). we carry radios and whistles, but after that nothing.