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Okay, this will be a long one. Understand I am going to outline everything, and eveything I have found wrong I have addressed in committee, and the responses I have gotten are 'it ain't broke we aren't going to fix it' ... and the like.


5 years ago, we started with one pack, my son got his bobcat, but they failed to recognize him or give him his patch over the course of 3 pack meetings. Finally the patch was given to me at Scouting for food to give to him, and he was never formally recognized. We switched packs (the second time he was passed over he was in tears).


The pack we moved to was a little short on leadership, and with the problem we had had I took over advancement chair (not another boy got missed). Everything appeared to be okay, my wife took over as CC and I was ACM. Well, the current CM who was also the SM of the troop we feed would not tell the CC what was going on, would not plan for meetings, we had no clue what was going on. Three years ago he approached me the first time to take over as CM, then decided to stay on for another year. BUT, he rarely showed up to meetings, neither did his boy, I was dual registered as ACM and DL of the Webelos den (did I mention attendance was really down, in a district that has over 150 cubs, we had 50 of them). I would take his word on his boys achievements in webelos, which may have been a big mistake, but I knew he was working with him (he was also going thru a divorce at the time). Anyway, Blue and gold two years ago he dropped the whole thing in my lap 1 hour before the event (he was sick)... seriously? you didn't know you were sick before that? A little bit of a heads up should be in order. But I was a little miffed. Everything after that point was coordinated by me.


Something has to be mentioned, the CM father is the UC. Of course, we can't go to him with problems, and for some reason our UC thought his job was to act as the CC and keep my wife there as a figure head. A couple emails and a phonecall to the DUC resolved that fairly quickly. But now because of that our UC refuses to deal with any issue in the pack or troop.


I have been in place as CM for 2 years now, and my boy has moved up to the troop. The troop was definately running a troop method adult lead program, and several times we had issues. Let me start from the begining there....


For starters, we paid the OA team $200 to come out and do our Arrow of Light/crossover ceremony. Again, still getting my feet wet, never had I been told that is NOT really the way it works, friendly service. But, our pack does some pretty intense fundraisers, so we have extra money that we spend on the boys and they pay very little out of pocket.


The night of our crossover the current SM (which changes in a little bit, but this guy was all about his son getting eagle and having scoutmaster on his resume) pulls me aside and tells me that he has just had a talk with the older boys talking about sex in the tent (we use bakers, and they have all the boys sleep in one tent together, which I might add my son HATES). Then he tells me it was a bit over the top, talking about, in his exact words, some 'boy on boy action'... my initial reactions was 'what the hell!', and to take my boy and the new boys home, but he was convinced he had the situation under control, so we stuck it out (with a convo with my son in the morning to make sure none of that went on). It was a campout, but with the adults taking care of everything. No SPL or ASPL was there, the only boy that was there was a PL who thought screaming 'get your hands out of your pockets and DO something' is how you lead. The adults did the majority of the teardown and direction that morning.


Troop meetings consist of dodgeball. Opening, announcements, dodgeball... next meeting, Opening, announcements, dodgeball (did I mention the SPL and ASPL are not there, and maybe one older boy or two). We start raising questions... this can't be scouts... there is NO guidance for the boys... and from one quote I saw here, boy led does not mean boy led into the ditch... they were definately playing in the ditch.


Next campout with the troop... well... troop method... they call it 'gang style' cooking.. reality.. its the adults cooking and the scouts running errands under their direction... like 'go get some water', no patrols, all adult lead. SPL was there, but seperates himself completely from the new boys. The campout is all about ropes challenge course. more than half is new boys, ages 11-12... and SHORT. Well, my son gets up on the platform and tries his hardest, but is not tall enough to reach the saftey lines and transfer his carebeeners. After half an hour he comes down, not defeated, but just can't physically do it. After that the instructors send up a tall boy with a short boy... two of the 8 younger scouts complete the course... my son is PISSED that others got help and he was left to his own devices, period. Breaking of camp and everything else went the same way... all adult lead.


Oh, and I didn't mention... we had 7 ASMs along, and three new parents, and every time I turned around I had an ASM **** ing about another ASM or the SM. It was horrible, really, did I need to hear all that crap? Do you think the boys do not pick up on your tensions?


Mad rush before court of honor is at one meeting to get the new boys to tenderfoot. They fail my son in his board of review, although he has been to every meeting and has learned every skill they taught. First comment, 'your not in class A, we cannot do your board'... well, no boy was told this and they were ALL in class B. Then he is failed for not knowing his knots. Before his board of review they were supposed to teach the knots. Another issue, no scoutmaster conference first, this troop does a board of review with a re-exam of skills (better bring some rope to show your knots!) first, then scoutmaster conference. I knew at least four eagle scouts and a bunch of youth, and they all look at me strange when I say he has failed... wait for it ... 3 boards of review. All boards of review are done by the ASMs, and it is only two of them at that. The reason, all the males in the troop are ASM (about 9 of them) and all the females are MC (about 5).... exact quote 'the women don't know enough to re-exam the boys, they don't know the material to ask the questions'. BTW, his board of review was 45 minutes, for tenderfoot. A comment made by a member of the board 'I can't believe these boys are coming up thinking they just deserve the ranks, they have to earn them, they will appreciate it more then'... I don't know, I think we are adding to the requirements there with an ASM saying that in his eyes the boys have to earn them, I don't recall that being in the requirements 'impress the ASM on your board so he things you will appreciate the rank you have already been tested on'...


At roundtable a week later he was passed by two ASMs who happened to be there... how? Show me a square knot. Okay, you passed. 2 minutes... but wait.. it won't stick...


Scoutquest (well, that really gives it away, but so be it), the pack is the guest of the troop. I have a meeting with my parents on Wed (leaving Friday) scheduled for 6:30... I call the troop representative to find out it we need to do anything... yeah, well... NOTHING is done, nobody contacted the boys, the leaders of the troop are doing all of this and nobody has done anything. They have one of their two leaders that were going in the hospital. They have no menu and don't have time to go shopping... The scoutmaster is out of the country for a month.


Pack parents take over... no real choice if we are going to make this work for the pack. I am not willing to cut off my nose to spite my face, I have been told that boy scouts is about letting the boys fail, but cub scouts who are here is not, I have to make this a good experience for them, besides, its not the boys who are failing, they aren't leading, they are not involved, just the troop adults. We handle menu and food, they bring equipment (well, some, they decide not to bring the trailer, and two bakers for 15 boys, thank god the pack brought extra tentage... a baker holds 5 boys, 4 in the heat of summer). When they get there, no SPL, no troop leadership (boy) and the one adult sets up his tent, opens his chair and sits down and reads his book. Well, we go into cub pack family camp mode, directing our boys... leaving the troop alone... 3 hours later we have everything set up... and the boys are still fussing with their tent... two boys are fighting about who is the most senior scout and is in charge. I walk over and ask the most senior scout 'how do you set this up'... pull him aside and tell him 'you need to stop doing, and start directing so you can see what is going on and you can lead'... he does that... bakers are up in 15 minutes, without me saying another word. It ain't rocket science... troop leader, still reading his book.


Everything goes fine that night... but the next morning, when more troop leaders arrive, all hell breaks loose between me and them... first remarks to my wife 'where's the old goat box and my coffee!'... what the $$$$? We tell him troop did not bring all the equipment, then he goes off on the menu... your kidding me? I LEAVE camp for an hour to cool off... boys were off doing other things... they were eating breakfast, left CC and a ACM in charge... I just couldn't take anymore without completely blowing a gasket.


After the days events we had back to camp, and again I get grief from this ASM. Telling me we don't have enough time... I say.. 'fire up three firepits, and we will be fine'... more arguments... I walk away and go find a friend of mine in another troop.. troop is in charge at this point and their boys are cooking. Pizza is 5 minutes away if needed and I can get food for the pack if they fail. When I come back only 2 firepits are fired up, and we finish in PLENTY of time. The ASM comes over and apologized to me, saying he understands it is my first time planning something like this (opps, wrong, do family camping with the pack all the time, which without support from the troop is all this turned into anyway, the troop was there to help, when they should have been the ones leading, and they KNEW this as this was supposed to have been in planning months before).


The next morning, we break camp, under the direction of the adults and go home.


Oh, forgot that after arriving there, the leader sitting in the chair tells me that I need to inform my son that the board of review at the roundtable doesn't count and he will have to do it again.


My son schedules a board of review (according to the SHB, the scoutmaster schedules). He meets with an ASM and the CC (2 people again) and an hour and a half later has passed his tenderfoot board of review.


At this point is where relationships between the troop and pack begin to break down, not at all related to my son. We have a joint picnic every summer... and we pay for food and troop pays for location... remember... about 70 people total... My wife and the ASM (who will become the SM again in a couple months, and was the SM for a couple years, and this is the former CM) get into it because he says the boys can wear class b's to this, and during their scoutmaster conferences... the SM disagrees and boys have to run home and get uniforms (misinformed by the ASM). We get the bill... $200 for food. I look up the cost of the venue... $75 bucks... we tell them combine and you will pay for half and we will pay for half. Why? more than half the food was left over, and it all went home with the ASM who did the buying and gave us the bill, all on his own. Not giving someone $100 in meat for their own use out of scout funds.


After the picnic, I talk to the ASM who failed my son on his first board of review. He tells me he doesn't really feel the requirements are right anyway... who is he to hold a boy back who can't swim from the rank of first class.... excuse me? Seriously?


Summercamp... things get worse. We have 15 boys and 9 ASMs at summercamp, no SPL, just a troop guide who thinks screaming is leading. No guidance from the leaders (I am away at ASM training the entire time). Not to mention we stop using patrols, they create new patrols just for summer camp, and tell my son to step down as PL for the duration... it was not explained well to him. My son wants to quit the second day after the guide screams at him... we get that straightened out. Then, on Thursday, it comes up that he and I have to leave a day early... immediately we get told he and I won't be eligble for OA next year... well... camp is 7 days, 6 night, requirement is 6 days, 5 nights... thanks again. The reason we were leaving? I had to take my younger to dad and lad... and after losing a child a couple years ago, we don't let the boys out with people we don't trust.. and the troop after everything else we have seen, we do not trust. So, my wife says she'll come down... at that point the suggestion is we leave at midnight to count the night, because they don't want any women in camp. In particular, not my wife... they don't like her, why? because she says her mind and holds people accountable. I mean the look of fear that came over these mens faces was just plain funny... a woman? in camp? OMG what are we going to do now? the world is going to end!


Before leaving my son ask for a board of review for second class.... he gets one... another hour and a half, another fail. Come back in a week because he didn't know the 3 r's of child abuse. I said "was it checked off?" they said yes, then I am asking why are you re-examing? They say because his book was signed off in under 5 minutes by the troop guide and they saw this, this is why they re-examed him on everything... okay... 'let's get the troop guide over here and find out why he did this' (btw, I have now completed ASM/SM/MC/CC training and have had everything I though validated about this troop)... oh, we'll handle that... hmm... fine. We go home. My son tells me he is done with scouts. I tell him we will find a new troop, he is not allowed to quit scouts as it is the adults that appear to be ruining it for him, we will fix this.


Aftermath.. 1 scouter hospitalized, 1 scout hospitalized, and 4 scouts have to see the doctor for various ailments aquired during summer camp. Mainly from excessive chigger bites and not taking care of blisters that got infected and became very nasty. Did I mention one scout for shoes only brought flip-flops?


I go to the district about all of this. They say 'fix it or find a new troop, they are their way to exploding anyway'... I say we would like to try to fix it... next roundtable... they district puts out a guide on how to conduct a board of review... troops reaction... guideline only, throw it out... I have been throwing a fit about boards of review in the troop, with the advancement chair and an ASM who is trying to do the program, trying to get things to change, walking them thru faulted logic... and all appears to be getting better... but my son is getting more fed up... dodgeball... dodgeball and more dodgeball...


Then my son has his board of review... with just the Advancement chair on it (UC refused to sit because scoutmaster requested him not to). The scoutmaster wanted to change the date so that myself or my wife could not be nearby (school night for scouting)... great... I sit in (not voting, not discussing, purely for 2 deep)... and sure as .... he does a re-exam... but as it is not 10:30pm at night after a day at camp, my son passes with flying colors. The advancement chair made a promise to my boy and kept it, and I do thank him for that.


We attend the court of honor, and my wife and I are in our scouter uniforms, and sit with the leaders. My wife gets told to go sit with the women or go back and help with the food because that's where she belongs.


During this timeframe we are starting a fundraiser... we are getting zero help from the troop, although we asked if they wanted in and they said sure...


Following troop meeting is elections. The SM throws out the votes for SPL and ask the ASMs to pick a new SPL instead. I disagree with this and am told this is the way it is really done (I have been told to sit down and shut up before).


Next troop meeting is about a campout that weekend... we say we have other obligations with the pack... an ASM tells my wife she needs to cut the apron strings (remmeber, dead kid, not like that is going to happen with my 11 year old), he of course then starts to backpeddle and say 'well, hopefully someday you'll trust us with your son'... 6 have to see a doctor after weeklong? not anytime soon.


The next committee meeting gets cancelled... the CC says there will be no more, we are just doing parent meetings as all the parents are part of the committee. The SM steps down.. and...


ALL THE PARENTS VOTE ONE THE NEW SM. Not the committee, all the parents... it is discussed how the troop will be lead... and that when the SPL is not there (because they will not hold an SPL accountable). My wife and the mother of the former SPL get into it... mind you, we have seen the SPL twice in a year at this point, and with the exception of the last two months, we have been at every function.


Given our choices of a adult leader who screams at the boys and a SM who has a track record of never being there, we do a protest vote.


Well, the former CM and SM gets to be SM again... again, no good choices... why didn't myself or my wife go for it? That I can't answer, mostly because this guy is charismatic and the parents love him (the leaders, except the CC which is a close friend can't stand him)... my guess is that it was a parent vote instead of committee vote because the leaders wouldn't have voted him in and the CC wants him as SM.


We stop attending troop meetings... except for the fundraiser stuff... The last tie we have to the troop. I go to district (DD) and ask his opion for a better troop. He tells me to go form my own, there is one that just folded and has money and equipment, get some boys and do it right, like you have with the pack. I am fed up, completely, my son loves the boys, but anytime he comes into contact with the adults it is a disaster. It feels like a good idea, my wife and I talk it over with the leaders of the boys coming up in the cub pack... and we decide to do it.


Scouting for food, DD shows up to talk to me and my wife about the new troop... as soon as he leaves the SM flips out and calls my wife screaming 'do you have a problem with us starting early?'... my wife tells him no, it was about the firehouse vs church thing, and other items with the pack, not the troop.


Fundraiser... pack involvment 75%, troop 25%, just the manpower and resources brought to the fundraiser.... 11:30 at night on Saturday we get done, takes from 2pm till 9pm on Sunday for us to get the breakdown done... nobody from the troop offers to help... they just call every so often and ask how things are going.


9:30 monday morning the district calls me with accusations from the troop that we are stealing their money from the fundraiser. My wife hasn't even been to the bank yet to deposit the checks... nobody called before that. We get a text from the SM saying he wasn't accusing, but some in the troop are asking that question, and what is this about a new troop? Why not stand up instead of just complaining (I did stand up, I am an ASM, my wife is a MC)... We are fixing the problem, the only way we can see... My wife is in tears, she just got accused of stealing money from scouts. I am completely pissed off. Mind you, I am the cubmaster of the feeder pack for this SM. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Not to mention, we made more in that fundraiser for the troop than they can all year (because they never commit and get anything done, the committee does not support the boys, it gets in the way). We split the fund 50/50, as they stated they wanted for their involvment, and I told them that it is on them about their lack of help. I am done with it.


Now, I have a completely broken relationship with the SM, and district was worried about me burning the bridge with what they did with my son (btw, it was the classic, 'that's the cubmaster's son, he needs to be held to a different standard than regular boys). I am staying with the pack as CM for the next couple years (I have a son in that pack still, and a bunch of boys that look up to me), and I am going to advise the boys to shop around for a troop. I don't think I should tell the parents about the issues we have had, then again, I can't let someone walk into this situation blind... they are not running the BSA program at all.


Any advice? Yes, I know we should have left that troop at the first failed board when they told me they do things their own way, not by the book... and even my son questions now, going 'hey its says this here, why aren't they doing that?'. I think it was because I thought at first it was me, when before we switched packs over advancement being missed for 3 months... but I have found that half the boys don't leave from the pack and go to that troop, they go elsewhere, because of that SM.(This message has been edited by concscouter)

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Sound like you have some serious problems and need to find/start a new troop. Didn't read the entire thing when this really caught my eye and needed to reply ASAP.


The campout is all about ropes challenge course. more than half is new boys, ages 11-12... and SHORT. Well, my son gets up on the platform and tries his hardest, but is not tall enough to reach the saftey lines and transfer his carebeeners. After half an hour he comes down, not defeated, but just can't physically do it. After that the instructors send up a tall boy with a short boy...


Please tell me this wasn't a BSA COPE COURSE? BSA has strict age guidelines, i.e. 13yos, on ropes courses becasue of just what you described. If it was a BSA course then some serious rules have been broken. And if the "instructors" were not certified, then a major liability issue has just arose.


More later

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Yah, hmmmm....


Welcome to the Scouter.com forums, concscouter.


There's a lot in your post, and no way for us folks out in internet land to wade through it and develop any real sense for what's goin' on.


In some ways, yeh seem to be holding some awful long-term grudges, eh? "5 years ago... they failed to recognize him or give him his patch over the course of 3 pack meetings." 5 years over a patch and it's still gnawing at you? Let it go. Well-meaning volunteers often overlook things, especially if somethin' comes in on a different piece of paper than all the rest or somesuch.


In some ways, some of what you're complaining about is "ordinary" stuff, eh? Nobody, and no troop, is perfect. Just a bunch of parents and volunteers with good intentions but not always the time and skills to do the job perfectly. Yeh take the bad with the good. If your son does in fact love his time with some of the other boys, that's great, eh? Unfortunately, your son's friends often come with parents that you might not care for, or who aren't as dedicated to Scoutin' as you are. Just the way of the world.


In some ways, some of what you're describing is just poor scouting, eh? We're seein' it through your eyes, of course, but especially the misogynist stuff and all the adult sniping is what often destroys scouting. The kids are much better at working with each other and developing friendships than we adults are.


So when yeh get to that point where yeh have a litany of grudges and gripes that are still on your brain over multiple years, I'd say it's time to take a step back. Yeh can do that in a couple of ways.


You can simply take a step back from participating in the troop as an adult. Take your kid, help with things when asked, but let the troop experience be your son's, not yours. Dealing with different adults and adult expectations is part of growing up. If he's happy, be happy. If he's upset, sympathize with him but support the "coach"/other adults and ask your son what he's going to do about it. Just be dad, eh? You can do a great job of that without being ASM. Besides, being Cubmaster is plenty of Scouting for one fellow. Spend your energy doing a good job with that for your younger boy.


Or, alternately, if yeh think enough boys and fellow parents are looking for something different, put together a core group of adults that you enjoy working with and go start a new troop. Your DD's insight that the current unit is fallin' apart is probably a good one. DD's see this thing a lot and often have decent instincts about it. So go and build a strong program. That requires yeh to work with folks and not hold long-term grudges though, eh? ;) If anything, building a new scouting program requires patience and good humor, with a deep reservoir of good will among all the adults.


If I were to guess, I'd say that yeh seem to have most of the necessary ingredients to startin' a new troop : chartering partner, gear, area that can support the additional troop, cub pack connections, some adult contacts who are dedicated, hard-working types. So rather than stickin' it out with all da accumulated angst I'd say go for it and do the new troop program. That's fun and positive work if you've got that core group of friends/adults who see eye to eye and are willing to make a go of it.


Good luck with it. And a Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.



and a good ol' Beavah, too



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No, not holding a grudge... The five year ago thing was I questioned moving for so long. These events are the last 9 months. My son is fed up with failing.

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Break away, start fresh and do NOT look back. If they are happy running a Troop that way, more power to them. They will either continue the way they are, change or implode. Either way, your son doesn't have that many years to enjoy his scouting adventure.


In your new Troop gather a strong committee around you, get bylaws and a handbook done right away, and make parents and youth sign a form saying they have read them and agree to function within those bounds. Then require everyone, including yourselves, to stick to it.


I say this from personal experience - if you can walk away and let go of the anger you will be much better off for it. And you can get back to what Scouting is all about. It is rather like being in a bad relationship ... while you are in the middle of it you are frustrated and believe that if you just find the right words, do the right things just right that it will all work out. Then, one day, you wake up and realize that the problem is NOT yours and you can't fix them.


So, run ... don't walk ... to your new life.

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You do seem to have a lot of problems. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they will be easy to solve.


As far as leaving or starting a new troop, I don't know if that is the best thing for your son. He probablyhas friends in his troop now that he wouldnt want to leave. If he changes now, it might be difficult to try again with kids he doesn't know.


As far as the adult problem, my troop has the same thing. Here's how I am trying to fix it.

1) Patrol Method

The patrols need to be able to DO things. I am trying to make my patrol as good and boy-run as possible to show the other patrols what they can do. I suggest you try to get your son (who I believe you said was a patrol leader) to do the best job he can to make a fully functioning patrol. Even if you can't fix the troop, at least his patrol will get a taste of real scouting (my patrol is currenty planning an adultless overnight bike trip to a nearby park). Hopefully other patrols will get jealous and start to eminate them.


2)Adult Help


I am sure that you are not the only parents upset with the way things are. Try to get the adults that are sympathetic to your thoughts to back you up on the commitee. If the problem aults get enough pressure on them, they will either back down or leave.


3) SPL


You must have an SPL who knows what he is doing. I understand that you are upset that the adults choose your new SPL, last year I was voted in but the SM threw out the votes and chose a differant scout because he wanted him to be able to pu SPL on his eagle application. The boys didnt listen to him at all, because they didn't elect him. If the scouts don't havetrust I the SPL, thenthe boyled thing will not work. You should talk to he SPL and make sure he knows how to run a troop.


Good Luck



and a silly young Platypus, too


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Thank you for your comments, they dissolved the new boy patrol(and is not first class so cannot run a regular patrol). so he is no longer a PL. Adults who stand up are told to shut up or get out, and the spl (the new one) is never there... Nor was the old one. Yes, I have other parents among the leadership, but the ones who are not trained think this is how things should be run...


Again, thank you, those avenues have been exhausted though.

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If it was a BSA COPE course, then they violated a very important safety rule, i.e. 13 years old, unless things have changed since I was a COPE Director.


As for the rest of the stuff you have dealt with. In all honesty I would leave and start a new pack. They are not following the Patrol Method, they are not following the Advancement Policies (no testing during BORs, no SM or ASMs on BOR, if denied a rank at a BOR then a written plan MUST be given to correct the matter, ad nauseum) they are definitly not following the Ideals method ( trustworthy, helpful, friendly, courteous, etc), they are not following the Leadership Development Method ( i.e. picking SPL in stead of letting the youth decide)They are not follwoig the OUTDOORS Method in letting the kids on their own. Shall I go on?


I'd start a new unit. If create a good program with adults who understand scouting and support the program, you will survive and prosper.


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I agree with everyone else that this troop sounds to broken to fix. But, starting a new troop is BIG and maybe something you don't have the time for.


You stated other boys go to different troops, and you are going to advise the Pack to shop around for troops rather then feeding this troop. Therefore it sounds like you this is not the only troop within a 50 mile radius. So if you are not up for starting a new troop the easiest solution is to take the advice you are going to give your pack. Just because you moved to this troop doesn't mean you have to stay with this troop.


Start shopping around and find a more functional troop in the area. Or if you are gung ho to you can start a new troop, but that is ALOT of work.


As for the testing of the BOR that is wrong, but I do question if a troop so dysfunctional really taught the requirements. Therefore does your scout know that which has been signed off, Or did he never really get the proper sign-offs.. If he really hasn't learned the skills, you shouldn't take what is signed off away, but if you can you should work with him at home to make up for the poor training he got from this troop, so if he moves to a new troop he can stand equal to those in the troop of the same rank.

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Would you believe that I was told NOT to do any skills with him at all? Last troop meeting I brought up that something was signed off that wasn't done... Then he was asked when he would be ready for his board of review. I have gone back over everything with him, to make sure he has what he needs to succeed, because he hasn't gotten that where he was. Actually, it wasn't our idea to do the new troop... District asked us to. There are plenty in the area, but as I look at it... I only have one chance to fix this for my son, after this experience he has lost faith in scouts, and so I have asked him for a chance to fix things before he quits altogether. I have met many older scouts, and am amazed at what these boys learn.


Thanks everyone, I really appreciate your comments, knew I wasn't nuts. As my pack will have a good alternative to the broken troop, I hope the boys will follow my son, and he helps in the pack, so the boys have contact with him.

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I didn't sense so much of a "grudge" tone in your report, conscouter. More of a "what-the-heck." There was a lot of extra baggage included, but I think the bottom line is that you are dealing with a very dysfunctional unit in it's current state. Two big things. Very little program. Dodgeball is fun, but is not a Scout meeting. And the second is adults who are either under-trained or who defiantly choose to ignore the training..and the methods...and the Scout Handbook..and...

I suspect the latter. I would choose the headaches of starting up a new troop and attempting to do it right, than the headaches of trying to turn around something that is so grossly out-of-whack.

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Just wondering where your Charter Organization is in all of this?


Also, while the Troop DOES sound dysfunctional, it also sounds like, over the years, there has been miss-communication, confusion over job requirements, and confusion over what the program is, on both your part, and the part of the other Pack, and Troop leaders.


I think that it is a good thing that you (and your wife?) have gotten fully trained.



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