Role of the District in the Eagle Advancement Process

[KC9DDI 11]

The original thread talks about the role one particular district plays in the Eagle Advancement process. Leaving aside some of the issues specific to that thread (Lone Scouts and registration issues), I'd like to get a feel for what everyone sees as being an appropriate level of District involvement for the Scout's Eagle project.

 

As I've said before, I think the Guide to Advancement is pretty clear about the District's responsibilities - providing a final approval for the Eagle project, and scheduling an Eagle BOR. Most of the "work" and approvals remain at the unit level, though - obviously the Scout himself, but also guidance and signoffs from unit-level adult leadership. I really see that as being the most important - the unit level leadership knows the Scout best, and has worked with the Scout over many years on all sorts of other requirements. I really see the district level as more of a formality, to help ensure that there's some amount of consistency in expectations from unit to unit.

 

I think that specific level of district involvement is necessary and beneficial in the process. But I'm not sure how I feel about some of the other "duties" that some districts have bestowed upon themselves. Notions of "convening boards" to approve or reject projects, retracting approval for projects based on paperwork technicalities, arriving at Eagle Scout project work days and "observing", correcting the behavior of unit leaders or others at this project, etc. At a basic level, this type of behavior just seems to be well outside of the district's "job description" as specified in the Advancement Guidelines, and also can be seen as undermining unit-level leadership, and creating more arbitrary hoops for the Scout to jump through.

 

I just don't see the District as being the "gatekeeper" to the Eagle rank. They can provide some input and guidance for a Scout, supplementing the unit leadership. But ultimately I see the District's role as being quite limited - providing some specific approval for one requirement (the Eagle project), and assisting with setting up the Eagle BOR. I don't see how or why a district should have any more input beyond that.

 

Any thoughts?

[MoosetheItalianBlacksmith 13]

I think you missed the point that were not retracting approval...because he was not a scout he did not Have a BSA EAGLE project approved. what we wanted to do was tye up the loose ends and make sure he has an EAGLE project.

 

The Board approve projects all over this area to make sure they are up to par and meet all the requirments because there have been alot of new troops or leaders that dont know any better and allow the boy to do a project that has no LEADERSHIP or is for the troop ect. This is no fault of their own but it keeps eagle projects in this area at par.

 

We meet once a month unless there is an emergency issue to adress. When that happens on extremly rare occasions we dont even convene a full board....just enough to have the meet requirments for a committee...about 3.

 

Its everybodies job to talk to leaders and correct behaviors. As long as it is done respectfully this is called constructive critisim and training. It makes them better leaders.

 

 

They can provide some input and guidance for a Scout, supplementing the unit leadership.

 

How are we supposed to do this without seeing the project or anything in action that is why we "observe" the project.

 

In this area Units do not hold Eagle Boards....that is entirly on us. We give the leaders alot of benifit in the fact that if they are here there are probably people that feel they deserve it. But we also want sombody from our board to double check that things are looking good....easiest place to do this....Eagle Project. So again we are "observing". One bad thing does not bar sombody from the eagle rank. We simply adress it so they know to be aware of it and adress it in the future. As i said there has to be something massive in order to bar him.

 

We want them to earn it but we want them to earn it the correct way and we will help them with that any way we can.

 

In this district it has been that way from many years....before i was even a Scout.

[fred8033 1591]

"double check that tings are looking good ... easiest place to do this ... Eagle Project." - huh? The beneficiary signs off. The unit leader signs off. I'm not sure what yet another pair of eyes can do except annoy the scout and the other unit leaders.

 

"boards to approve projects" - We just have one district advancement committee member who signs off on the projects. Having a committee do it seems to reflect either past disagreement in the district or the lack of a single district leader who wants to take responsibility. Sounds like a beaurocratic process not required anywhere in the GTA.

 

.....

 

Obviously, I'm on the side of the districts not adding that much except promoting advancement consistency.

 

KC9DDI wrote: "I just don't see the District as being the "gatekeeper" to the Eagle rank. They can provide some input and guidance for a Scout, supplementing the unit leadership. But ultimately I see the District's role as being quite limited - providing some specific approval for one requirement (the Eagle project), and assisting with setting up the Eagle BOR. I don't see how or why a district should have any more input beyond that. "

 

Fully agree(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[MoosetheItalianBlacksmith 13]

You mIght think that....But at least since ive been on the board not one boy has had an issue.

 

They have all been really excited to get to show off their project.

 

I guess im missing something in the fact that im not sure how an extra person or so to help out or just poking their head in....ON a day their working anyway....can in anyway cause a problem.

 

We try and stay out of the way maybe talk to the boy for a minute to see how progress is going. and Meet some of the bright young minds coming up through scouting. Talk with leaders and meet new people. Not Sure how that Is a bad thing. Ill have to remember meeting people and talking is a bad thing and i shouldnt do it any more.

 

Even if i wasnt an eagle board member and i got word of an eagle project going on id probably swing by to give a congrates and get to know some more scouters.

 

We only ever have an issue when there is a problem such as a a parent directing the project at which point we usually go to the boy and re adress that he should be running it and try to be as tacktful as possible. We go to the leader if the boy has tried and still cant get them to reliquish control of project. So helping a boy is the wrong thing to do....i should stop doing that too.

 

Wait...isnt helping boys, teaching them life skills, having fun, and meeting people what scouts is all about? Or do i have that wrong too?

 

 

As for makeing sure that we get the double check....weve had multiple units just try and push people through as im sure all of you have as well. At which point does that mean they signed paperwork because he deserves it or because they want another eagle. As i said before 9.75 times out of 10 the project is all good and the boy is showing leadership and looks like he'll make a great eagle canidate.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

[fred8033 1591]

Yeah.... Hmmmm....

 

The trouble is I've just seen too many scouters willing to step in and tell scouts how things should be. Often sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong. Often it's the same scouters that talk about the new Eagle process dumbing down the project or watering down the meaning of being and Eagle scout.

 

If you want to show up and help, great. Good scout spirit. If there is a YPT or safety issue, step in immediately. But if you don't like how things are happening, tell his scoutmaster. Youre not his unit leader and barely know the scout. I've seen many bad scouting experiences start with overzealous leaders who feel responsibility to inject themselves.

 

Maybe you can do it well and in a positive way. But just as many or more dont. The bigger concern though is that scouting units come in so many looks and flavors. And scouts come with many different personalities. Guidance and advice is best left to his unit leaders.

 

....

 

The district's role is to approve project concepts and hold (or support) Eagle boards of review. There is zero district responsibility to audit projects as they occur.

 

 

[KC9DDI 11]

I guess im missing something in the fact that im not sure how an extra person or so to help out or just poking their head in....ON a day their working anyway....can in anyway cause a problem.

 

Inviting yourself, or showing up uninvited, to ANY event, is just bad manners. If the Scout for some reason invites you to stop by and help out (I don't know why he would) then no problem. But if you're saying the someone from the district HAS to be present to observe an Eagle project... that's sounds like you're adding to the requirements, which is, of course, prohibited.

 

Talk with leaders and meet new people. Not Sure how that Is a bad thing. Ill have to remember meeting people and talking is a bad thing and i shouldnt do it any more.

 

The purpose of the Eagle project is not for you to "talk with leaders and meet new people." The purpose is for the Scout to complete a useful project for an organization - not as an opportunity for district people to network, say hi and be visible. The Scout is not responsible for the added responsibility of "hosting random District person" at his Eagle project. It would be like stopping by a a unit's camping trip unannounced just to say hi and meet people. It's just not appropriate, unless you've been specifically invited.

 

But we also want sombody from our board to double check that things are looking good....easiest place to do this....Eagle Project

 

But that is just quite simply beyond the scope of your responsibilities on the District advancement committee. That is the responsibility of the unit leadership.(This message has been edited by KC9DDI)

[MoosetheItalianBlacksmith 13]

The trouble is I've just seen too many scouters willing to step in and tell scouts how things should be. Often sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong.

 

not our job to step in and tell scouts how to do things. on the contrary we want the boys to lead the project and tell us what to do. Everyone on the board has been around long enough to know that sometimes the boys have to make their own mistakes. When we come in we come in to observe...talk to and get to know the boy, get a gernal overview of the project, help where we can, answer any questions the boy might have. and make them aware of any issues we see so they can improve. This is all about improving them and helping them learn. help and constructive critizim are big factors in that.

 

Most of the projects i advise i go and look around....and ask where i can help. its as simple as that. From there at some point before i leave ill talk with the boy to get to know him better and let him know of anything i observed. This is called feedback. If he has any question he can feel free to ask at any time. So im not sure what in here is so bad that people need to object to it.

 

Our District committee does the actual Eagle Board of reiviews as in most of the area even beyond our district the troops dont do an Eagle board of review.

 

We want to get a general idea of who we will be recommending for the eagle rank. How often are you willing to put your name on something site unseen? (bad example but you get my point)

 

the boys get more cofortable with us because now wehn they come back before the board there is at least one person they know. But it also lets us see what the boys skills are so we can feel more comfortable recomending him to national for the Eagle rank.

 

Its breif its quick its not in depth and it gets everybody more comfortable with everybody else.

 

Im not seeing how any of that is wrong or what there is to object to. Basicly im a normal person who just happens to be from the board stoping at an eagle project to see how things are going.

 

 

KC9DDI we only want ot be at one thing.And they are told we might swing by. But a high majority of our scouts invite us to everything. We generally dont end up a project if they dont because we dont know when it is and have no other way of finding out.

 

Take the fact that im part of the district out of your head....im a regular scouter as well and i serve on a troop and a pack.

 

Every event i go to i see lots of people doing the meet and greet....yes including Eagle projects.

 

i dont know what type of hosting they would have to do with us because its not like were trying to stick out like sore tumbs. If theres a cost to going(such as a fundraiser) we pay it we dont expect to get in free and besides it helps them so they have more money for the project.which is what were all about.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlacksmith)

[moosetracker 132]

KC8 Inviting yourself, or showing up uninvited, to ANY event, is just bad manners. If the Scout for some reason invites you to stop by and help out (I don't know why he would) then no problem. But if you're saying the someone from the district HAS to be present to observe an Eagle project... that's sounds like you're adding to the requirements, which is, of course, prohibited

 

 

The boys wiil get one person of the board to contact and let them know when a fundraiser or work date is.. The contact person will not go to everything. He will hopefully be able to attend one thing where it is convient to his schedule. He will not stay all day.. (Except, once when it was a fundraiser dance, then I believe both Husband & son stayed for the entire thing.)

 

For the most part the unit is overseeing the project.. The Eagle board member will get a feel for the boys leadership style, and for the well being of the unit in upholding some basic standards..

 

Because they do go out and visit many troops these guys are very well aware that no two troops are alike, no two boys are alike, and no two projects are alike.. If they did not go out to visit Eagle projects then you would get the narrow minded scouter who would insist everything be done his way.. Or the out of touch scouter, who couldn't tell an Eagle project if it jumped up and bit him in the nose..

 

The Lone scouter though presents a unique case, of how is his project over seen by his unit??.. OH, YES.. It isn't, it is just being overseen by the over-controling helicopter Mom.. This is where the board sees a need to step in and do alot more visits, then show up for an hour on one of his work days..

[NACAP 10]

Actually there are multiple responsibilities of the DAC and CAC in the Eagle Adv Process. I've listed most of them in found in the GTA:

 

EProject refs: 9.0.2.7 It is also acceptable for the coach or the advancement administrator responsible for approvalif he or she becomes concerned the project will not meet the requirements or it will not be completed to the satisfaction of the benefiting organizationto contact the Scout and his parent or guardian and, as appropriate, a representative of the beneficiary.

 

 

9.0.2.1 An advancement administrator is a member or chair of a council or district advancement committee, or a volunteer or professional designated according to local practices, to assist in advancement administration.

 

 

DAC 3.0.0.2 #13h Help troops, teams, crews, and ships avoid pitfalls as qualified youth strive for Eagle Scout rank, the Silver Award, or the Quartermaster Award.

 

 

3.0.0.2 #9 Follow national and local council procedures as prescribed regarding appeals, Eagle Scout and Quartermaster references, service project proposal approvals, boards and bridges of review support, and time extensions.

 

 

CAC 3.0.0.1 #11 Determine, according to national procedures, consistent and appropriate methods for approving Eagle Scout service project proposals and fundraising applications, providing Eagle Scout service project coaches, and conducting Eagle Scout boards of review and Quartermaster bridges of review.

 

8.0.3.0 BOR Particulars for the Eagle Scout Rank

The particulars below pertain only to the Eagle Scout rank.

1. Council advancement committees must determineand make knownmethod(s) for conducting Eagle Scout boards of review: whether unit committees or the council or district advancement committees administer them, and also how board chairpersons are selected.

 

Other applicable paragraphs relating to CAC/DAC Roles in the Eagle Advancement Process:

 

8.0.3.1 Eagle Scout Board of Review Beyond the 18th Birthday

8.0.3.2 Initiating Eagle Scout Board of Review Under Disputed Circumstances

8.0.4.0 Appealing a Decision

 

[fred8033 1591]

moosetracker wrote: "The boys wiil get one person of the board to contact and let them know when a fundraiser or work date is.. "

 

What happens if the boy forgets to call that district contact and just works with his volunteers to get the project done?

 

....

 

I guess if I'm sensitive to this it's because four years ago, our district adv committee was a direct cause of scouts not earning eagle. Project approvals that took at minimum three review cycles and at minimum two months to get approved. Individual DAC members would not make a decision but had to consult with the "committee". Review cycles that continued until the proposal was thick enough.

 

It culminated three years ago with a specific scout who had been thru six approval cycles (one per month). I read the review findings and they were busy-work type of findings. Nothing significant. During the last review cycle the DAC lost the project proposal and asked the scout to resubmit everything. It was just a runaround and nothing useful to the scout.

 

For the last two years, our DAC has been available to review projects within one week, max two. One review cycle assuming the previous review findings are addressed. Many times the project is immediately signed off on first inspection. The goal has been to help the scout succeed and be responsive. The DAC approval cycle should not be a cause of failure ... or have significant project schedule impact.(This message has been edited by fred8033)

[MoosetheItalianBlacksmith 13]

If he doesnt tell us the likly hood is we have no clue when the project days are and we dont get to any of them.....its rare that the boy doesnt tell us though.

 

I can understand your fustration with that. I was just working with a boy whos troop was almost the direct cause of him not getting his Eagle scout. I did that as a friend.

 

The boys come up 2 see us 2ce and 2ce only. once is to get the project approved and the second can be after they turn 18....the Eagle BOR.

 

we will send sombody away and have them come up with a differnt project if it doesnt meet the requirments. But we dont want to do that either so if we can do it we look at their other Eagle project ideas and/or help them strengthen they one they have.

 

On example of a boy we had to send away was a boy that wanted to do a whole bunch of data entry with people in other states. Meaning he had no way to lead them. and then have fundraiser to send himself to another country to put a wreath on a fallen soldiers grave. That was the only use for the fundraiser.

 

He also had no other proposals planned.

 

 

We are there to help the boys and dont have a desire to give them the run arround. And im very sorry you got that in your area.(This message has been edited by MoosetheItalianBlackSmith)

[moosetracker 132]

One thing MIB didn't mention is the scout's project is not rejected because they do not call..

 

MIB himself had an issue, he was given a district Advancement board member who probably should have been put out to pasture, but no one had the heart. Well, when he did call the man argued with him that he was not assigned to him. MIB called the DAC and asked what he should do, the DAC just laughed and said "Don't worry about it." No one else was assigned to him.

 

The assigned Councilor though has helped in cases where a question arose about a project. Chances are the problem would have been worked through anyway, but it is alot faster when someone on the board can pop up and vouch that things were fine from what he saw..

 

That happened with a scout in our troop, there was a question if his project did have enough scope, the DAC himself had been to the final result of the project (which was a program open to the public about the importance and care of the American flag.. The DAC, vouched that the program was outstanding, and met all the requirments.

[Taserdoc 10]

I am a District Eagle Coordinator and have been for a long time. This is the process that I use;

 

1. Eagle Scout Cantidate contacts me to set up an appointment to get his project approved.

 

2. I meet with him and go over his project details to make sure that it qualifies under BSA guidelines, (several don't, and have to be altered or changed). I also go over how to finalize the project workbook when he has completed his project.

 

3. Scout completes his project, (without any interference from me or any other District members). If I am curious how a project turned out, nothing says that I can't go check it out at another time, (not during the project).

 

4. The Scout contacts me and turns in his project workbook and application. I send the application to Council for final approval. When I get it back from Council, I call the Scout and schedule his Eagle Board of Review.

 

5. As part of the EBOR we discuss his project and the details in depth, as well as look at the pictures he has included.

 

I feel that there is no need to go out to the project to "observe". I think it has the potential to add too much undue stress not only on the Scout, but also on the situation. It has been my experience that the leadership of the unit has a pretty good idea of what needs to be done without our "help". kind of like how I wouldn't want someone showing up at my job to second guess me.

 

The Scouts and Unit Leaders all know that if they have any questions, or need help with something, I am just a phone call away.

 

While it is my responsibility to process the Scout from Project, to actually approving him for the rank of Eagle Scout, It is not part of my responsibility to interfere with the project or process, unless a complaint or concern has been initiated.

 

Although I do agree with the fact that some Unit Leaders just try to push the Scouts through, fortunately they are in the minority.

 

Just my $.02

 

Edited for Puntuation.(This message has been edited by Taserdoc)

[moosetracker 132]

Sad that after the whole process to get these boys to become confident, self-relient leaders who are suppose to be well rounded individuals.. You feel you need to bubble wrap them so that they do not feel too much undue stress not only on the Scout, but also on the situation about a person they have spent an hour or so with reviewing the project outline coming to one of his work days for an hour or two to observe how the project is doing, ask him how things are going, praise him on his work, talk to his leaders exchanging some ideas and a few laughs..

 

Not much different then working with a merit badge counsilor, not much different then another troop leader or district leader wandering into their campsite during a camporee to socialize with his adult leaders, or check out thier lashed project.. Not much different then performing some challenge or feat at a camporee with adult leaders from other troops or from district judging their efforts..

 

Instead you feel these young men at the height of there scouting career, during their eagle project will freak out at a visit from someone they have already spent time discussing their project with..

 

Sort of reminds me of the parents who fear thier kids walking to the bus stop, worried to let them go outside to play, worried about allowing them to walk to the store by themselves..

 

To me, doesn't sound like much of an Eagle scout. I may be wrong maybe you are seriously a very scary looking guy..