evilleramsfan 27 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I had an interesting series of thoughts on the subject recently and thought it could be an interesting subject to bat around here... My wife has never gotten the Scout Law correct and always says Truthful and Honest. However, if one really thinks about it, the Scout Law does not say a scout is Truthful or Honest. After thinking about this, I can see in situations there are times where the truth could violate some of the other parts of the Scout Law. The truth or being honest is not always kind to another scout. I could also see where it could fly in the face of loyalty as well. I know that the stars stand for truth and knowledge, but my impression is that this is a different type of truth. I'm curious what others think about this? I guess I could always come back with a comment of "You are apparently pretty lazy and inconsiderate of our son's interest in scouting if you can't take the time to learn the Scout Law...." That would be both truthful and honest, but I think I will avoid saying it..... What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites
Papadaddy 121 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The word is "trustworthy"...worthy of being trusted. Not the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Scoutfish 16 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Scout's mom, or girlfriend asks: "Does this dress/outfit/pants make my butt look big/fat/ugly? Truth could be any varyation of yes or that the hair isn't a style the scout likes. Maybe the shirt is a color or cut that the scout does not like. Being truthful will only get the scout in trouble! When we were first mnarried, my wife started trying to make new dishes. Soime were great right away, so not so much. When she asked me, they wre alwys - at the very minimum - good. I never told her that it was all I could do to swallow some of them by washing them down. So, I was being loyal , friendly, courteous and especially kind. I was not being trustworthy as defined in the scout handbook in the sense that scout tells the truth and is honest. But we know that all rules have an exception to them. All rules have a certian time and place wheer being entirely truthful and honest does not reflect on the virtues that being honest and truthful reflect. My lying served a greater and more nobel purpose than being truthful. So my answer to your question: Even though the scout law defines trustworthy as being honest and telling the truth....a scvout should learn when to avoid the down side of telling the truth or when telling the truth goes against being kind, friendly, couteous, etc.... Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 To paraphrase a great one, it is true, from a certain point of view. Gotta love Obi-wan Kenobi. Link to post Share on other sites
Lisabob 13 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 one of the things I remember having to try to explain to my (then) early/mid-teen son is that there's a balance between being truthful, and being tactful, and that they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. For a while, he was prone to saying the most brutally truthful things he thought, and when others would get upset, he'd respond with "what, I'm just being honest!" Thankfully, he seems to have figured out that one doesn't need to voice every thought one has on a subject, or at least that there may be better and worse times, places, and ways, to say the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 When confronted with a hot topic where the truth is going to hurt someone, I always ask whether they want the truth or not. Or I'll just say, truthfully, that I don't want to answer that. There is no good reason not to be truthful. Or put differently, there's no good reason to lie. My wife made a new dish last night that was really bad. I truthfully told her to not freeze the leftovers, but put them way in the back of the refrigerator and we can have them again in six months. I lucked out on this because she had the same idea. Had I not been truthful we'd both suffer through the leftovers. Yes, one can get in trouble for telling the truth - sometimes. One can ALWAYS get in trouble for not telling the truth. I like to keep my odds reasonable. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
evilleramsfan 27 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm glad to see the responses. It is an interesting discussion and I might continue it at some point with the troop. It certainly gives one a reason to think more heavily on the Scout Law and why it is the way it is.... Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle732 27 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Well when I was a young Scout we apparently were guided by a different Scout Law. As I recall Trustworthy was defined in the Scout Handbook. "Trustworthy. A Scout's honor is to be trusted. If he were to violate his honor by telling a lie or by cheating or by not doing exactly a given task, when trusted on his honor, he may be directed to hand over his Scout badge." Clearly telling the truth and being honest are (or were) part of the Scout Law. Maybe not so much today. The current handbook does not mention a scout turning over his Scout Badge for failing to live up to the promise. Wonder how that would effect the "Numbers"! I think we should be able to bust a Scout back a rank for serious violations of the Scout Law. Another thought. How many adult leaders live up to the Ideas of Scouting including being "Trustworthy"? Link to post Share on other sites
MoosetheItalianBlacksmith 13 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 what your talking about it the scout spirit part of rank advancment. We cannot take rank or requirments away but if they are not living by the scout oath or law you can delay that signiture till they are....or you feel they have improved. Its at SM or committees deiscretting....most just look at that requirmnet as a gimmee though. Link to post Share on other sites
Engineer61 19 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 "I want the truth!" "You can handle the truth!" Pretty much sums up the human condition to me. Link to post Share on other sites
MoosetheItalianBlacksmith 13 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Im very honest....but (for example) if my fiance asks a question to which she wont love honest answer i aske her if she wants the true answer or the boyfriend answer....usually she wants both. ANd with the truth and the complimentary Fib shes usually very happy. Link to post Share on other sites
qwazse 4347 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Trustworthy - to me is that people can count on you to do the right thing. Not just what you say. The lady in your life may or may not get the verbal approval she's looking for (because even after all these years, it's hard to tell what the right answer is ), but she'd darn well better know that you're not going off giving approval to someone else who doesn't deserve it! Link to post Share on other sites
drmbear 10 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The answer to my wife is always: "You look beautiful." True, regardless of what she's wearing. Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 drmBear, I think Joe Cocker said it best "... You are so beautiful... to me..." And that is never false Link to post Share on other sites
CalicoPenn 729 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't think Trustworthy is as much about doing the right thing (I consider than being Ethical - it's part of being Trustworthy but being Trustworthy is part of being Ethical) as much as it is about doing what you say you're going to do. If you say you will take a tent home and dry it out but bring it back full of mildew, you've shown you won't do what you've promised to do so you're not being very Trustworthy. I think that's where the honesty comes in. It's not neccessarily about answering someone who asks if a dress makes them look fat (which can be answered truthfully, if tactfully, by saying something like "it's not really flattering to your beautiful figure" or "it has a very peculiar fit" which blames the dress - a skill most 12 year olds don't have yet as it is in being truthful and honest about your abilities - if asked if you can take home a tent to air it out and you don't really have the space, the trustworthy thing is to explain that you don't have the space, or the time but you can take come the cook kits and wash instead. Link to post Share on other sites
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