Another advancement issue...too fast too soon

[evilleramsfan 27]

We have a boy in the troop who has cerebral palsy. He has been extremely active (probably moreso than most of the other boys in the troop). He has now been in the troop for 10 1/2 months and is already coming up for Star. The boy, when we discuss things with him, does remember what he has learned, but has difficulty in describing it. His parents are adamant that since he has attended almost everything and has held a minor leadership position (he also attended troop leadership training). I don't know how much of the work he did independently and how much was done with the push of the parents.

 

The problem is that they are moving from the area next week. Within the last few days, he became eligible for Star via the timeline.

 

There is a double-edged sword here.... If he did not have the disability, he might be better at explaining himself and make it easier to justify his advancement, but I really can't tell. If he couldn't explain himself, saying no wouldn't be as difficult either. I asked an ASM who has specialty in disabilities and she is really on the bubble with it.

 

My gut says to make him wait....even though it will mean he has to find a new troop and put in time with them. I have had a hard time describing the dilemma, but would appreciate input.

 

If we say no, his parents will likely be very angry and describe our decision as unfounded, biased, or based on ignorance, but I still don't think advancing him would be the right thing to do. We do meet with him within a few days and he will have a chance to prove himself.....but my gut says he won't convince us.

[Lisabob 13]

I'm unclear on what it is that he has not done to your satisfaction. What do you mean when you say he can't explain himself? Perhaps an example?

 

Based on what you've written thus far, it seems to me that if he has actually completed the requirements AS WRITTEN, you have no basis on which to deny him advancement. Unless, of course, there is something he actually has not done and that is a BSA requirement beyond just your gut feeling.

 

One other thing: when I was in high school, I had a friend with cerebral palsy. She was one of the most driven people I've ever known - perhaps because she knew that her illness would progressively shrink her physical capabilities. Her internal motivation was astonishing. Could it be that this scout is similarly driven? And that your reaction to his fast-paced advancement is misapplied in this case?

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

You didn't ask this, but let's be clear that T-2-1 requirements are not on the table. If he is going up for Star, he's already earned those ranks. You can't go back and ask him to tie a bowline or recite the first aid for hypothermia.

 

So you are dealing with the Star requirements. Were there any procedural issues with the merit badges? That is, did he have the blue cards signed by the SM in advance and use the counselor approved by the SM? Did a qualified counselor sign the blue card? If the MBs counselor signed the blue cards, the MBs are a done deal -- the troop doesn't get to second guess the counselor.

 

You say he's very active, so he's put in his time. Doesn't sound like Scout Spirit is an issue. If he held the leadership position and completed the four months, it's too late now and try to claim he didn't do the job properly. That leaves the service project. Any problems there?

 

Unless there are some serious problems with any of the above, I don't see anything in your pose which would give the troop standing for denying the Scout his advancement.

[Eagle732 27]

What was the "minor leadership position" he held and for how long?

(If the minor POR wasn't done to your satisfaction than that should have been discussed during his term)

Did he do his 6 hours of service?

Four months active membership?

All six merit badges?

Does he have Scout Spirit?

 

Other than what happens at meetings or outings we never really know how much of the work any Scout does on his own. I would think a Scout with special needs could get the benefit of the doubt though.

 

 

 

[airborneveteran 10]

I don't understand what requirement he didn't satisfactorily meet. My first thought would be to allow his work to speak for itself rather than expecting him to speak more eloquently than he may be capable of doing.

[frankpalazzi 62]

If all requirements were done "by the book" and signed off by qualified persons, and the SM conference was completed, there's no reason to deny this boy a successful BOR. There's no rule against his parents "pushing" him, they just can't do the work FOR him, and that would be extremely difficult to prove if all requirements in his handbook are signed off by qualified adult/youth leaders. The next two ranks will be for the new troop to deal with.(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

[Eagle92 110]

Once signed off, it's a done deal. But my questions are these: What are the standards being used and Did he do the work?

 

By what standards, I mean is it 'one and done" with no reinforcement, no using the skills, etc, or they learn it, they use it regularly, they teach it, etc. In otherworths have they mastered the skill before sign off.

 

As for did he do the work, I'm serious. If he actually did the work, he earned the rank. Frank made a comment about authorized folks signing off, and to a degree he is correct. But I have seen one case where granddad was the SM, and daddy was an ASM. The scout earned eagle at 13 over the protest of the district EBOR, which resigned en mass when the decision was appealed to national and the scout got Eagle. It wasn't the age that they had problem with, but him actually doing the work; from their conversations

with him at the EBOR, it appeared that he did not actually do the work. And to be honest, when I ran into him, I struck up a conversation on various things that he needed to do for the MBs on his sash. This was not an interrogation, but rather me trying to gain info on my new home that IF he had done the work for the MB, he would know some things about what I was talking about.

 

Now I've known some die hards, they do every activity, get completely focused, and bust their butts. Heck I knew one that had 3 BORs in a single nite! And let me tell you MY little secret on slowing folks down: Take the emphasis off the advancement, and put it on having fun. Let him go to NYLT. Let him do a 50 miler, If he gets into the OA, encourage him to be active. LET HIM HAVE FUN.

 

Trust me, I got Life at 13, and Eagle at 18. Why did it take me so long, when I did my project within months of getting Life and only had about 3 or 4 MBs to earn? BECAUSE I WAS HAVING FUN.

 

SCOUTING IS OUTING!

 

 

[Eamonn 61]

OK, so maybe I think that any Scout who is a Star Scout and almost a Life Scout in only 42 weeks? A little strange.

But what I might think really doesn't matter.

Fact is that he either met the requirements or he didn't.

If it turns out that he really didn't meet the requirements and the requirements were signed off? Then the person or people who did the signing are at fault and this is something that the Troop Committee might want to take a look at.

 

While of course I don't know and have no way of knowing.

Could it be that because of his illness people thought that they were being kind by allowing him to skirt the requirements? And now that the family is moving, this kindness will come to light and the risk of being found out is now very real.

 

What to do?

If he has indeed met he requirements, then there is nothing that needs doing. Just wish him luck and send him on his way.

If for whatever reason, no matter what the intention he hasn't met the requirements and they have been signed off.

I think that it's time to come clean.

Explain to his parents what has happened and why it has happened.

Also informing his new SM of what has happened, seems to me to be the right thing to do.

While in my view you can't take away what has been signed off, it does allow the new SM the chance to offer him the opportunity to go over what was signed off, maybe not "Redo" but more of a "Refresh".

Adults who sign off on requirements that haven't been met are not only not living up to the oath and law, they are guilty of cheating and short changing the Scouts.

Even if at the time their intentions were good.

Eamonn.

[acco40 95]

There is no such thing as advancing "too fast."

[evilleramsfan 27]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas. I will fill you in later on how it goes. The big question is did he satisfy the leadership requirements adequately.

[evilleramsfan 27]

btw...he is First Class coming up for Star.

[Twocubdad 665]

Go to the NEW Guide to Advancement and read section 4.2.3.4 regarding positions of responsibility. It discusses expectations for PORs and how to handle things when those expectations are not met.

[Basementdweller 608]

Just curious

 

 

Who actually signed off his requirements as being completed?????? Mom and Dad.....NO, Never, BAD IDEA.

 

If you cannot understand him then find someone who does.......We have a young man with palsy he has an ipad with a text to speech converter.......He manages to do well. His knot tying is tough to watch but he can tie the required ones. He needs a flat table to do it and some help getting them tightened up, but he gets them right.

[Eagle732 27]

I asked several posts back what the "minor" POR was but that question was not answered. So I'll assume that the "minor" POR was maybe Historian or Librarian and the Scout didn't actually do anything towards the job but got signed of on the requirement anyway.

[CalicoPenn 729]

First - there is no such thing as a minor leadership position. They are all important in their own way.

 

Second - if the lad can't explain himself well, it may or may not be related to his disability or just may or may not be related to his being 11 years old.

 

Third - if he's got the time in POR, and has met the other requirements, why should he wait because you think he should wait? The program is set up so that advancement this fast by a determined individual can happen - do you really want to claim you're smarter than the BSA?

 

Fourth - if there was a problem with POR performance, where was the mentoring throughout this time period? Why wasn't it mentioned before and the lad worked with to improve? It's a bit late to bring it up for this POR now, don't you think?

 

Fifth - by your own admission, he has been extremely active in the Troop, and maybe the most active. Well no wonder he's been advancing so rapidly - he's determined.

 

If this were my unit, we'd be giving the lad his SM Conference and BOR at the next meeting, then presenting his Star Rank at that meeting in front of all his friends, who he is now moving away from. Not because it's the nice thing to do, but because it's the right thing to do.