Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think advising the Scout to work with the SPL to fill one of the empty POR is what I would advise too.


I bet the SM reminds Scouts every time elections come up, that filling a POR is a rank advancement requirement once your are 1st class. "I know I have heard our SM say that... in fact, he stresses if there are empty PORs, there is NO chance of a SM appointed project."


One of the favorite phrases I have heard is; "the lack of planning/motivation/realization on your part, is NOT an emergency on my part."(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I just compared http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/eagle.aspx with http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/star.aspx and this is what I'm seeing:


Works for Eagle for a Troop, Team, Crew:

Senior Patrol Leader

Assistant Senior Patrol Leader

Patrol Leader




Chaplain Aide

Junior Assistant Scoutmaster

Order of the Arrow Representative


Leave No Trace Trainer


Works for Eagle in a Troop, but not a Team or Crew:



Works for Eagle in a Troop or a Team but not a Crew:

(Troop) Guide


Den Chief


Only Star/Life no matter what:

Venture Patrol Leader


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK I have gotten the Troop Venture Patrol & Venturing mixed up in Venture vs Venturing.. But if I am not mistaken Venturing has no patrols.. So the Venturing patrol leader is simply a Troop patrol leader isn't it???



When we had a Venture patrol (so to speak, they took on a different patrol name). I am sure some used it for their POR between Life & Eagle.. Everyone just labeled it "Patrol Leader".. Oh well.. Not going to go back and grab eagle rank away from anyone at this time (like you could).. Don't even know why we should, the boys worked the position as hard, if not harder then any other patrol leader.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all your responses. Here are my answers to some of your questions/comments.


I wonder why the SM is deciding to deny this boy his Eagle?

I would not put it that way. My observation is that the SM, the COR, the CC and the advancement chair are all on the same page: a Life scout should complete all Eagle requirements without any pro-active help from them. The Scout could have run for Patrol Leader or applied for one of the other positions at the end of August, but waited until now - literally the last possible moment - to approach the SM.


When was his Life Board of Review?

July 2011 and he has not held any POR since then.


Why hasn't he stepped forward before now?

He was working for a military academy nomination and just received it last week.


Yeh have to be careful about going behind the back of the SM.

I have no qualms about meeting with the Scout, answering his questions, and discussing the choices he has. My friendship with the scout and his parents transcends that with the SM and even the troop. I did meet with the scout and told him that, bottom line, he has to decide how important Eagle is to him. I went over his available choices and told him to discuss it with his parents and decide what he wants to do. We'll see what happens and I'll follow up with another post next week.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"I wonder why the SM is deciding to deny this boy his Eagle?

I would not put it that way. My observation is that the SM, the COR, the CC and the advancement chair are all on the same page: a Life scout should complete all Eagle requirements without any pro-active help from them. The Scout could have run for Patrol Leader or applied for one of the other positions at the end of August, but waited until now - literally the last possible moment - to approach the SM."


Yeah, ok, I guess it's fair to say the SM isn't intentionally denying this boy Eagle - but frankly, this SM, and the CC and the COR, are denying this boy the opportunity to earn Eagle because they refuse to be flexible and insist in following their ignorant ADULT timeline of how things should be done. As adult leaders, our number one goal should be to assist the Lads on their path - and that inlcudes the path of advancement (among all the different paths). It shouldn't be to slam artificial barriers down in front of the Scouts - even if there is no intention to do it.


I was ready to consider that the SM had some other reasons and was willing to side with the adults but then you give the kicker - the lad was working for a military academy nomination (and congrats - he got it). Those aren't easy to get and take up a lot of time - seems to me the lad was being responsible by not trying for a POR knowing he might end up not doing justice to the job. Now? I think the COR, the SM, the CC and the Advancement Chair should be taken out behind a shed and kicked in the pants, hard, until their brains (can you tell where I think their brains are right now?) reboot. These knuckleheads are exactly why a lot of people get really frustrated and leave with a very sour taste in their mouth about Scouting. You folks have a lad who's one more step closer to becoming an officer in our armed forces and his last lasting memory of your Troop and the Boy Scouts is going to be of a bunch of idiots who blocked him from an opportunity to earn Eagle. I wouldn't be surprised if he never let scouting darken his doorway again.


You now have almost no time - if you have a friend in another Troop that will accept this lad right now - today - and make sure he gets a POR - call them and get it done. The transfer paperwork can be signed today. Or contact the Institutional Head - that's the COR's boss in this matter - and see if he'll intervene - or go to the Scoutmaster and makes this lads case and see if you can talk some sense into this guy - and be ready to back the SM up (if you can get him to reverse course) when the COR, CC and Advancement Chair start to squawk.


Alternatively - and this will take some doing - by my calcs - using 180 days as 6 months, you might have until Monday or Tuesday to do this - start a crew now - call the DE to make it happen - you have two lads in it already - your son and his best friend - recruit more for the minimum you need - then make him an officer that meets the requirements and get a great crew up and running to suck the older lads out of this Troop so they don't have to be faced with such unflexible rules again.


You have a chance to make a huge difference in this - please don't give up - but if you end up passing that line because of the intransigence of these clowns - I'd seriously consider whether you want to remain involved in this kind of Troop.

Link to post
Share on other sites



You're right, the good SM's do bend over backward when they can.


In our case, my family had to move out of state one week before my son's POR was complete to earn Life Scout rank. In reality, he has had a POR since scout rank, either PL, APL, or ASPL. I called and explained the deal to the SM and asked if they could break tradition and do his SMC and BOR the same day. I would then go to our new Council when we registered and get his rank badge after we moved. My other son was conicidentally in the same boat with Tenderfoot. He was newer to the troop and we weren't all that concerned about his because it wasn't one of the big ranks.


Instead, they pulled some strings and made a special trip to Council and had their SMC, BOR and badge presentation/COH all the same night. I wish I could have been there but I had already moved.


To answer the OP, as a good SM, you do whatever you can to make it happen. Done.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like this Scout has his priorities in order! If I was his SM I would do everything I could to help him. I offered in an earlier post a similar situation where I would not have helped a Scout after he turned down an opportunity and decided to try the easy route. In this case the Scout was working for an appointment to a military academy (do we know which one?). As SM I really appreciate when Scouts hold off on taking a POR if they know they won't have the time to commit, usually due to sports. So in this case the Scout was being responsible, he could have taken a POR and then not had the time to commit to it. Then the unit or patrol suffers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My two cents:


Anyone who chooses not to be pro-active in helping others finds paths to success doesn't understand leadership, and does not deserve to be a leader.


That applies in industry, the professions, the Armed Forces, Scouting, ANYWHERE.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A scout entering the military looking to make Eagle but with tight time constraints on one requirement.


Okay. I was trying to be polite earlier. And maybe there's something I still don't understand. But if the situation is anything close to the earlier descriptions.... Time constraint for POR but otherwise other requirements are done or do-able. A scout entering the military and potentially risking his life to serve of your country.


Politely said, the scoutmaster needs to rethink the situation. And any leader thinking this situation is okay would quickly lose my respect.


Bluntly said, the scoutmaster is a real piece of ####.


(This message has been edited by fred8033)

Link to post
Share on other sites

CubsRgr8 - One more suggestion. Call your district executive and/or scout office. Today. Don't stop until you reach a live person who can actually help.


Ask for names of local supportive scoutmasters who would be willing to receive the scout into his troop and help fix the situation. I know I'd be proud of my troop if we received and helped such a scout.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A few comments.


1) let me get this straight, the scout was focusing on getting an appointment, and didn't have time at the get go to do the POR, and now can serve, but the SM is not helping?!?!?!?!?


This reminds me of when we had a Life Scout going to his EBOR, but they couldn't meet because it was too long afte rhis birthday for council approval, and had to go to national. Reason for the delay: he went to boot camp and some additional training.


LUCKILY the EBOR, did have a "discussion" with the young man instead, and wrote a letter supporting him in his appeal. And I think his actual EBOR was about 2 or 3 minutes, long enough to say Congratulations you made Eagle" and shake hands."


2) A Venture Patrol Leader is the PL for the Venture Patrol,and has nothing to do wiht Venturing. Prior to August 1998, they were call Venture Crew Chiefs, but that got confusing when Venturing came about.


3) Error apparently is in regards to Star and Life as when I looked on SCOUTSTUFF.ORG for the POR patch, they are no longer made. I guess he's a regular PL again ;)



Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Create New...