Advice Please

[CubsRgr8 10]

My son was appointed Troop Webmaster ~ February 1. On July 22, he received - and I was copied on - this email from the Scoutmaster, apparently precipitated by a recent discussion with the adult who hosts the website. Since he left for Jamboree on July 21, he hasn't read the email, yet.

 

Scout,

 

I would strongly suggest you assume that once you have failed at one leadership role, you should attempt to do something else. We will give you just a months leadership credit for the early webmaster effort you invested. Regarding acting as webmaster in the future, Mr. Website doesnt need to chase you around to get you to do the responsibilities. Its more work for him than just doing the tasks himself. As a Life Scout, I would not be positive about you serving in this role again. ... We should discuss this further the next time you show up at a Troop Meeting. Remember, we have been meeting all summer?

 

Mr. Scoutmaster

 

I concede the point that my son did not perform his POR very well, but being fired just short of six months? without a "performance review" and corrective action plan? and being given one month's credit towards his POR? Both the Scoutmaster and website adult know my son started working at a Cub Scout camp with one day off per week on June 14 until one day before he left for Jamboree - except for one week of troop summer camp. Furthermore, his performance as Troop Webmaster did not come up during the week of summer camp (I know this because I was there). Needless to say, Mama Wolf and Papa Bear are not happy. Before we say or do anything, we'd appreciate your advice.

 

[mds3d 90]

Without having conducted a "performance review" or at least being told "You need to to these 3 things from now on if you want this to count" I would say that the Scoutmaster is acting VERY inappropriately. First, AN EMAIL!!!!!!!!! Wrong on the first count! Should have been a SM Conference at least! For everyone else listening, this kind of thing should NEVER EVER be done through email! Second, "Failed at one leadership role" If anyone failed it is the Scoutmaster!!! When our scouts fail in their leadership role it is our failure as well!!! (Yes I am yelling at my computer screen)

 

The very first thing I would do is call your SM and ask him for a further explaination. Remain calm and express your concern at the way this is being handled. If that doesn't satisfy you (and I expect it won't). Start calling the other leaders you have for advice (CC, COR, UC, DE -maybe in this order). They know the Scoutmaster and can give you further advice.

 

I will let others give the rest of advice. Trust me, many have gone through similar confrontations and will be great help to you.

[Stone Cold 10]

Okay, he was fired "just short of six months" so say 5 1/2. He's been working at cub camp since June 14, so say 1 1/2 months. Where's he been for the other 4 months? Apparently not at troop meetings. Tell him to move on and do better at his next job.

[moosetracker 132]

If he was only active as Webmaster for a month.. and was busy at camp on June 14th, that would mean his activity ended around early March. (Or was very spotty and undependable the whole 5 months).. So the point is he should have been doing his best at least from Feb 1st through June 14th.. Which it sounds like he wasn't or he would have credit for 4 1/2 months at least.

 

If you can concede he did not preform his POR very well, then look at it as a life lesson for your son and support your troops actions.. Mom & Dad wont be there to fight his battles at college for a half-hearted college paper, or a work for poor performance.. Use this as an opportunity to guide your son now while you still have the ability to guide him. Get him to recognize the fault lies with his actions, and that he has to take ownership of that and figure out where he failed and what he must correct not to fail again. Then have a conference with his SM about it.

 

I do think a "Dear John" letter was not the right form of communication for this. The SM should have had a sitdown with him about the issue. That might be the only issue I might discuss with the SM. Request that if something similar happens in the future he have a sitdown face to face with your son.

 

About the fact it wasn't brought up at camp.. The SM may not have communicated yet with the adult WebMaster so was not aware of the problem in order to discuss it. Or there may have been other issues that kept the SM from discussing it at that time. When it was or was not addressed I don't see as an issue.

 

Some troops have a struggle with the lack of a scout fullfilling his POR and how to handle it. Rotating SM's some very strict on the issue and some very laid back. Attempts at different ways to enforce that the boys take the POR resposibility, in order to find a working policy.. Until a troop has a very consistant and working policy the boys may get mixed signals as to if they can fluff off the POR and get credit anyway, or must take it seriously.

 

The best bet is for your son to always do his best and take pride in his efforts with his POR regardless of what other scout is getting away with murder.. Teach him to do it for himself, and do it for the benifit of his team (the troop)..

 

Lesson learned now, early on will help him tremendously in his Adult life. That is what Scouts is all about. Recognize it and work with the scout program to help guide your son into being a fine responsible young man.

[sherminator505 10]

WOW! The Scoutmaster sent the boy to Jamboree on this note?!

 

A few questions, if I may:

 

Where was the Scoutmaster during these 5-1/2 months?

 

More importantly, where was the Senior Patrol Leader during these 5-1/2 months?

 

Despite the inappropriateness of this e-mail, did this prompt a conversation between you and your son? If so, what transpired? Was he in fact doing the job?

 

It seems that there are a multitude of communications problems here. My best advice would be to have a cup of coffee with this SM and find out what exactly is going on here. I assume that as your son is a Life Scout he is still working toward Eagle, and I wonder if this doesn't signal trouble ahead if you don't head it off.(This message has been edited by sherminator505)

[Eagle92 110]

Major communication problems. A few questions

 

1) what guidance did the adult responsible for the website give the scout? If little to no advice, then there is a problem on the adult's part, not the scout's.

 

2) how often did the scout ask for advice and actually worked on, or attempted to work on the website? If the scout attempted to work on the website, but couldn't b/c the adult wouldn't actually mentor and advise the scout problem with the adult. HOWEVER if the scout didn't go after the adult to get info, advice, etc, problem with the scout.

 

3) Why wasn't this brought up before? My understanding of advancement policies is that no matter how good a job the scout did or didn't do, he gets full credit for time in the POR. So he should get 5 months credit, not 1.5, since he was fired this month.

 

4)SM could have handled it a lot better than he did. A SM is to advise and mentor.

 

5) Did the scout see this coming?

 

Edited: ALSO didn't the SM know the scout was working camp all summer? When we knew scouts were workign staff, we knew they wouldn't attend meetings, and gave them credit for the attendance award and interpatrol competition(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

What is the issue here? That the Scoutmaster is not all that adept at communication or that the scout neglected his Position of Responsibility to the point of having to be fired? Is this the time to junp on the scoutmaster for having poor communicaiton methods or is it time to tell the scout, see, thats what happens when you screw up?

 

If the scout is going off to Jambo, it may be the magic six month period will end before he gets back so the scoutmaster had to send the email to have something dated before the 6 months is up.

 

Of note, the scoutmaster can't say we will give you a month's credit, the scout gets credit for all the time spent in the position. Then again I wouldnt be expecting a POR for awhile either. Performamce Reviews should occur, but lets not let the process get in the way of what has been judged a sub standard performance

[Eagledad 2779]

>>I concede the point that my son did not perform his POR very well, but being fired just short of six months? without a "performance review" and corrective action plan?

[shortridge 184]

Don't do anything.

 

Let your son deal with this when he returns.

 

He is a Life Scout, mature enough to attend Jamboree and staff Cub camp. He can handle this.

[moosetracker 132]

I guess I am surprised by so many responses that the parents should iron out the problems for the scout when he is at the rank of Life.

 

All I know is this is not something we got involved with as parents. We had a similar situation. My son was all set to do an Eagle project, had everything approved, then got a medical condition that basically killed his ability to do the project. He canceled with the sponser who understood, then approached the SM (the wrong way) and the SM blew up and told him he HAD to do this project, and he would accept no excuse.

 

Now officially the project had been called off, and our son physically could not accomplish the project even if he did try to restart it. But, if the situation continued, he was not allowed to choose a different project. Months and Months and Months were spent trying to get him to reapproach the SM.. It was his problem to work out with the SM not ours. The SM response was partially our sons fault because he approached the SM at the wrong time, and with the wrong attitude.

 

After 7 months he did. This time asking for personal time after the meeting and sitting down to discuss the matter seriously. Things were worked out.. And, our son learned ALOT from it.. I am greatful he had the opportunity to go through this experience, and I am glad I stayed out and did not rob him of it.

 

Advising the parents on what to advise their son on before talking with the SM. This I can see. The parents fighting the sons battle especially when the parents admit the son did not perform the POR very well.. So what will the son learn from this? That he can do whatever he wants, since Mom & Dad will fight his battles.

 

I will admit that coming to an agreement about some sort of project that will make up for his lack of commitment, may be a good compromise. But, I still don't like it being the parents alone doing the arguing.. At least the scout should be with his parents and be a major player in this discussion, if you feel the scout can not argue the compromise on his own.

 

But, a web position is not done during troop meetings, in front of the SM to be able to monitor. He must take the word of the adult working with the Scout. Therefore he can not be made aware of an issue until the WebMaster discusses it with him. Maybe the WebMaster should have discussed the issues earlier. But, the Troop Webmaster position is relatively new to BSA, so there will be starting issues to iron out in every troop who attempts to use it.

[sherminator505 10]

"I guess I am surprised by so many responses that the parents should iron out the problems for the scout when he is at the rank of Life."

 

Ordinarily, I'd agree with this sentiment. However, in this case the SM's e-mail seem to be way over the top, indicating a sudden release of pressure. In my work experience, the receipt of such an e-mail would indicate a clear readiness to go to war. From someone who is in a power position, this is clearly inappropriate.

 

Further, I think that the cc of this e-mail to the Dad is an open invitation for parental involvement. So it would seem that in this instance, the advice for the Life Scout to go it alone reflects a certain disregard for the facts at hand.

[IM_Kathy 32]

if this was my son...

 

1) I would talk to my son. First I don't agree with the tone I read in the email from the SM but I have some questions... Do you think you did the job you were suppose to do? Did you understand the tasks you needed to do for his job? Did you ask for assistance from the SM or adult in charge of the webpage? What have you learned from this experience? Sometimes we learn more from our failings than our successes.

 

2) I would talk privately with the SM. I would let the SM know that the tone from the email was very harsh and I have talked with my son regarding the issues brought up. I would let the SM know that we are in aggreement that my son did not do what was needed to get credit for his POR, but that in discussing with my son we have a few things to bring to the attention of the leaders to help keep this from happening in the future...

 

a) tell the boy which adult to report to with questions regarding his position. for example the SM may not be the person to turn to for website.

b) that it would be better to have a sit down with a scout struggling with their position partway through to give them pointers rather than waiting until the end and telling them they failed and don't get credit.

 

 

I'm the committee member that over sees the quartermasters. They report to me when things are needed repaired or replaced. I show up when the boys load up for camping trips and as soon as I see that a quartermaster did not attend the campout I ask who was asked by a quartermaster to step in for them, if no one answers then I have the SPL appointment someone and at the next meeting I will talk with the quartermasters and ask them to tell me what their duties are and I will ask them if they are fullfilling their duties - when this happens (usually just the first time they miss a campout) I tell them that if it happens again I will tell the troop recorder that the scout did not complete their POR duties. I had 1 QM that wasn't able to attend any campouts during his term, but every time got a replacement, but he still didn't want to take his credit. We were needing to reorganize some equipment including dishes so I gave him the task of cleaning all the dishes and reorganizing all those items and gave him his credit.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, what's missing in the report is whether the lad had already had a meeting with the scoutmaster or the adult web host. Sounds from the letter like the answer is "yes", since the letter seems to be responding to prior questions from the boy. And of course we didn't get the whole letter.

 

I'm with moosetracker. This isn't a parent issue, it's something a Life scout needs to resolve with his SM. Doesn't matter if da SM made the wrong call or communicated it poorly or didn't check in to hold the boy's hand for months. Refs make the wrong call, bosses sometimes communicate poorly, teachers don't always hold your hand. Learning to have the character to deal with that while acknowledging his own mistakes is the most important lesson here, not wheedling credit for a poor job to make da hovering parents go away.

 

Besides, the letter was written to your son, eh? Not to you. When we talk or write to teens, it's often necessary to be blunt. Male teenagers just don't "get" subtle.

 

Yeh get to be important teachers for your son, eh? Do yeh want him to learn that mommy and daddy will always fight to keep him spoiled and privileged, or do yeh want him to learn how to own up to his own mistakes and act with grace and character instead of like a whiner? If it's the latter, yeh support the SM unequivocally.

 

And then, after everything is resolved and temperatures have cooled, yeh offer the SM gentle feedback on what would have made a better letter for you.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[John-in-KC 311]

I wonder where this SM was six months ago, at the beginning of tenure. Was there a SM Conference, to discuss responsibilities? Was the Committe Secretary appointed to provide content from the Commttee? Was any adult given rsponsibility for adult assocation and support?

 

How many times did the SPL/ASPL provide oversight? Were the Patrols charged with creating content? What about the Scribe?

 

Removal is a last resort, and I would hope the SM was courteous enough to have alerted the parents in advance.

 

I'm sorry I have more questions than thoughts, but this removal has too many questions needing to be asked

[acco40 95]

I'm 90% in shrotridge's corner on this one. What I may suggest is to wait for your son to bring up the issue with you and openly talk about responsibility - your son, SM, Webmaster, etc. mostly from a "asking questions" point of you. Then possibly suggest to your son that he talk to his Scoutmaster but under no circumstances would I have you talk to the SM yourself. I don't see how that would help anything.