Define Camp out!

[scoutmomma1]

Our Patrol has had a difficult time with a few scouts coming to camp outs for the activity (or part of it) to fulfill a Rank advancement and then Mom comes and picks them up and they do not spend the night. In the BSA handbook, many of the Rank requirements begin "on a camp out". So do we give these boys who leave credit or not considering they did not actually spend the night? Is it fair that they get credit when the other boys have fulfilled the entire requirement? We understand that sometimes there are circumstances in which the scout has to leave but this is a recurring problem of a select few.

[CNYScouter]

The Rank requirements pretty much spell this out:

 

Tenderfoot

2. Spend at least one night on a patrol or troop campout. Sleep in a tent you have helped pitch.

 

Second Class

3a. Since joining, have participated in five separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), two of which included camping overnight.

 

First Class

3. Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight.

 

So I would say that spending the night is required (at least 3 for 1st class)

 

[ned_rothstein]

Do the parents involved have a valid reason for not allowing their boys to stay overnight? Just curious about the rest of the story.

[WAKWIB]

scoutmomma1,

CNYScouter sums it up pretty well. These scouts in question are not meeting the requirements and it would be a severe dis-service to them to sign them off. There may be numerous issues at play that are keeping the scouts from spending the night. The Scoutmaster needs to have a conference with these scouts and their parents pronto in which he spells out the requirements and see what can be done to get the boys on track. Camping is an integral part of the program and all scouts need to participate in that part as fully as possible.

[dg98adams]

If all the "fun stuff" is done on Saturday, I have observed it that some Scouts tend to not want to stay over and work to clean/pack up.

 

The boys (on their own) came to the conclusion, if a Scout needs to leave early (for whatever issue), then that Scout needs to put in "extra time/effort" whatever if possible.

 

I would not sign off on any "overnight" if the Scout did not stay. This also should not be credit for the Camping MB, or OA eligibility.

 

Save some fun stuff to do Sunday morning - 5 mike hike, physical fitness, Scouts own service, etc....

[Eagle92]

I can understand why some folks need to leave early form a trip, eps. since my oldest will need to leave early all next year for religious classes which are mandatory for his grade. I have a few folks in my chapter who also belong to my church, and they too leave early for the classes. BUT they work doubly hard to make up for leaving early AND in respect to the OA asctivities, the fun really starts after the Ordeal Ceremony, so they are actually missing out ont hemost fun.

 

That said the requirements state overnight, so it doesn't count. Nor would it count towards OA requirements, the various national campign awards, of Camping MB.

[raisinemright]

A camp out is an overnight outside. Not only are the activities important, but for a young scout especially, the outside overnight teaches him self reliance and independence.

 

My family is currently living split lives. I am living and working 500 miles away until we can sell the house and move (after five months, I accepted an offer on my house today...YEEHAAA)

 

My wife and sons are with me this week in our new state for a few days. On Friday, I will be driving them 500 miles to get them home in time for the troop camping trip.

 

It will be my younger sons first trip with the troop. The other has camped at least one night a month for over three years.

 

That's how important the scouting outdoor program is.

 

I've got a great excuse to not send my sons on the trip. 1,000 miles, $150 in gas and tolls, 18 hours on the road and I actually need to be home Saturday night for a work obligation on Sunday morning.

 

Not to be rude, but ask your scout's mommy if she can top that excuse?

[jhankins]

I like how the requirement is a patrol or troop camp out. Many of the troops in my neck of the woods just don't do patrol campouts. It's starting to change (with backyard campouts on 1-2 acres, all the boys use in the house is the commode), and it's also giving them a chance to develop more as a team, and start to get used to the big changes involved with bridging to the older boy program.

[Basementdweller]

I would make them adhere to the requirements as written.

 

A question. Are these 11 year olds or 15 year olds.?????

[scoutmomma1]

Wow! Thanks for all the replys! The boys are in 6th grade so this isn't their first time to campout! The excuses are varied, some legit and others questionable. We just want to be consistent so we aren't accused of favoritism. Some of the boys have camped out over 20 nights in the past year since Crossover while others have camped less than 5! So it's not like they haven't had ample opportunities. We have 15 boys and the guys try to spend this campout time working on Rank requirements with them. But if they keep leaving, they won't finish the requirement yet are expecting to be signed off! We just don't have the time or manpower to keep repeating the things these boys have missed!

[Eagle92]

Momma 1,

Camp outs usually have the same routines, i.e. travel, set up, activity, meals, campfire, game time, etc. Sp teh basics should be covered. Also the older youth teaching the classes shouldn't have a problem with the repetition, as it gives them a chance to practice their skills, both the activity and teaching, and teach folks new ones.

[SR540Beaver]

Scoutmomma,

 

I assist with our new boy program and we crossover anywhere from 15 to 20 new scouts per year. Our pledge to these boys and their families is that we will provide a program that will allow them to get pretty darn close to first class in the first year they are with the troop. The catch is that they have to participate. We realize that some boys are involved in sports or other outside activities and we are up front that those boys will probably advance more slowly than their peers......but that is their choice. It isn't held against them at all. But some requirement items are not as easy to continually repeat to get everyone equal with one another. And getting them all equal isn't part of the program anyway. We might do multiple 5 mile hikes, we might not. If they miss the campout where we do, it is on them to attend the next campout with a 5 mile hike to advance. The tenderfoot to first class requirements are pretty plain about camping. If they come do the program during the day on Saturday, they can be signed off on those requirements. If they don't spend the night, they don't get signed off on those requirements and will be sitting at Scout until they do.

[Engineer61]

I don't suppose that the boys who aren't camping out have simply lost interest in camping...and without a parent to push the issue, then you end up with boys that don't camp.

 

6th grade has shown me (from my three kids) to be a time of self-re-prioritization. Different opportunities avail themselves...

 

My Scout is very into the camping part and really wants nothing to do with the whole MB thing. He'll do the "fun" badges (computers, electronics, music, etc) but want's nothing do to with any of the Eagle requirements, in spite of Mom's pushing the issue.

[frank10]

"Define Camp out!"

 

I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it.

 

 

[mikemayer67]

"We have 15 boys and the guys try to spend this campout time working on Rank requirements with them. But if they keep leaving, they won't finish the requirement yet are expecting to be signed off! We just don't have the time or manpower to keep repeating the things these boys have missed"

 

One of the key points I make with all scouts at every scoutmaster conference I have with them (and when I meet with them in their Webelos dens before they even join the troop) is that it is the scouts' responsiblity to move through the advancement process. It is the troop's responsibility to provide opportunities for advancement, not to move them through the ranks.

 

I make sure all scouts (and their parents) understand that the scouts must set personal goals based on the priorities in their lives. I do not care what the scouts' goals are... just that they have them. The scout must realize that if they want to do scouting, marching band, soccer, party with friends, and "chill on the weekend" that something will have to give and odds are they will "fall behind" their peers in scouting advancment. There is nothing wrong with that as long as the scout realizes the cause/effect and makes a conscience decision that this is how his priorities lie.

 

My point? If a scout elects to put something ahead of "completing a camping trip," then they have no reasonable expectation that the program will be repeated explicitly for them. They will need to wait until enough critical mass forms for it to be repeated. (Of course, very few of the requirements need a special program in order be completed...)

 

Just my 2c,

mike