Webelos II - New Scouts

[CPAMom]

My husband and I have led Webelos I this year, focusing first on then Citizenship badge, then encouraging the Fitness badge (most requirements to be done at home), and Craftsman.

 

This year there was no Webelos II group, so 2 new scouts in 5th grade were in our den. (They dropped out.) Our plan next year is to provide opportunities for this group to earn AOL by Blue & Gold at the latest and conclude Webelos II.

 

What is normally done with new scouts who are 5th graders? Are they put in Webelos I since they have not earned the Webelos badge? If they are in Webelos II, what are we obligated to provide for them that would be different that Webelos II?

[GKlose]

There are all sorts of answers to this question -- but with two sons who have recently gone through this same thing, I can add our experiences. Both sons had different experiences, and both by choice.

 

There is a specific design behind the Webelos program -- that is, to transition the boys into the Boy Scout program. Webelos dens are operated less as Cub Scout-style parent-child programs, and more patrol-like. Activities are centered around something more Boy Scout-like, such as earning activity badges (not unlike Boy Scout merit badges) in subject areas that are slightly more mature than the Cub Scout program: Citizen, Fitness, Outdoorsman and Readyman (there is a specific design behind these being the required activity badges for the Webelos badge and the Arrow of Light). Also -- the Arrow of Light contains specific requirements mean to directly reflect the "joining requirements" of Boy Scouts: visit a troop meeting, go to a Boy Scout-oriented outdoor activity, tie a square knot, recognize the difference in the Boy Scout uniform, the Scout Oath and Law, etc.).

 

In my sons' cases, one was fine with whatever the den did. The other couldn't get out of Cub Scouts fast enough. Although he was a first-year Webelos, his age is such that he could transition earlier than the end of 5th grade (he turned 11 just after 5th grade started), so he did activities with both a first-year and a second-year Webelos Den.

 

I've seen, however, other dens in operation, including one entire den of 10 Webelos drop after their first year. I'm convinced that the more the Webelos program is run as "Cub Scouting" the more boring it will be, and who wants boring? The Webelos program is meant to be run as a transition to Boy Scouting, to bridge them, to keep them in the program. Try a google search on "Webelos to Scout transition" and you'll probably find hundreds of web pages devoted to the topic (even though content is similar on all of them).

 

Guy

[Snow_White]

Our pack is dealing with this right now - we have scouts who joined in 5th grade as part of the Webelos II den, but could not bridge with the rest of their den because they did not earn the Arrow of Light (and are not yet 11 or finished 5th grade).

 

Every situation is different, but I think the right thing is to put them in the Webelos II den, if you have one. (Why would they want to be part of the 4th grade den? In most cases, they probably join because they have school friends in Web II. Obviously, your situation was a little different.) Then have someone take on the task of helping them "catch up" so that they can earn AoL by the usual time. I know this is easier said than done, but I think it is important to that someone "volunteers" to have specific responsibility for this - if the den leader doesn't have the extra time, then ADL, CM or committee member. In our situation, it seems that the new scouts just went along with what activity badges the rest of the den was doing, no one worked with them on Webelos badge or Aol requirements (earned Bobcat, at least), and then they were shocked at the bridging ceremony when their names weren't called.

 

It sound like you have the right idea for next year.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Guy is right on with his description. In fact, I would say that looking at the problem from his perspective (that the Webelos den resembles a Boy Scout patrol more than a Cub Scout den) may provide much of your solution. Our pack has had this issue for the past 2 years, and we have found a great solution which has worked well for us.

 

For starters, you are dealing with (Webelos) scouts of 2 different skill levels though both groups are the same age. We welcome them in with our Webelos II group, and use the opportunity to review the material for the Webelos badge for our existing scouts while teaching the new scouts. In fact, we encourage our experienced Webs to teach and work with the new Webelos. This also is like Boy Scout patrols, where less experienced scouts are taught by those who have more expereince. It has worked very well for us. Last year we had 1 (new) scout who stuck with the "agressive" program, and the others worked well with him and they became quite a tight team (like a real patrol). The key is at sign up to make it clear to the parents that you will be delivering a 18 month program in 6 months, which is the absolunte minimun time to complete the Webelos and AOL. If they understand what you are doing (and your willingness to accommodate their son) you are much more likely able to be met with success. This year we have had 2 new scouts in my den do the same thing (Join in the 5th grade and earn AOL in 6 months). I have found reviewing the Webelos Badge and the Fitness and Citizen WAB are is a good thing for the returning Webelos as well, and giving them an opportunity to teach the new scouts really reinforces their comprehension and skills. Both these two new scouts crossed over to the troop last Thursday evening, having joined Cub Scouts in mid-August.

[Mom2Scouts06]

We had a new Scout join our Webelos II patrol this year who had never been a Scout before. We made it clear to him and his parentst that if he wanted to earn AOL and cross over with the rest of the group then he had a lot of work to do! I can say that I am so proud of this Scout. He has worked his butt off in den meetings and at home and he is on track to earn AOL the same time as the rest of his patrol. Granted, we start den meetings the first of August and the boys are crossing over first of march so he had about 7 months.

[AKdenldr]

This is a very interesting discussion, along the lines of what I've been thinking about.

 

I'm considering planning the Webelos program so the Web I boys have the opportunity to earn the AOL by May next year (one calendar year). (My son would be able to bridge at the point if he wanted.) I'm not particularly interested in presenting an activity badge every 1 to 2 months as the Webelo leader guide lays it out (seems so academic). I'd rather have time for fun and hands-on projects and field trips, focusing on just the 8 required for the AOL. We do have a summer program.

 

And having more focus on boy scout connections earlier rather than latter.

 

It was a struggle to get older son's den to stay engaged in Web II half year.

 

Anyone with experience doing this?

 

Also, were should I read about patrols so I am encouraging that sort of experience in the Webelo year?

[Basementdweller]

Everyone says the webelos program is two years......Your not running it right. Eighteen months. Super Achiever ridiculous.

 

The boys should be crossing over in February to go camping and used to how the troop runs before summer camp.

 

A few Questions.

 

How much have you den camped with your Web den?

Outdoor activities?

How many troops have you visited?

How many times have you camped with the troops?

Do you hike, fish, conservation projects???

 

We camp monthly with our webs thru April thru October. Activity pins are mostly earned on the campouts. Our boys are ready for Boy Scouts by Halloween of their Web II year.

[GKlose]

AKdenldr -- if you're anticipating "crossing over" as well, to Boy Scouts, as an adult leader, there is nothing wrong with seeking out training early! In fact, you can start by investing 20 minutes or so to do the "Fast Start" that is part of online training.

 

You can also find the manuals at the local Scout shop -- most are reasonably priced, around $10. Reading up on troop committee functions, and Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster roles wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

You could even go "old school" (which a former frequent contributor on this forum suggests) and seek out Boy Scout Handbooks and Scoutmaster Handbooks written by Greenbar Bill, "patron saint" of this forum. There is also a very practical book for sale, which you can find on amazon.com, called "The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook."

 

Or maybe just check out "The Patrol Method" subforum that is part of this forum. There is lots of practical advice in it, and there are several SMs and ASMs who participate that are looking to rebuild the youth-led method in their own troops.

 

But most of all, I would suggest this: get them outdoors, and out of meeting rooms, sitting at tables. Do something. Get them hooked on activity.

 

Guy

[MNBob]

As a second year Webelos den leader this past Scouting year I had the same concerns as CPAMom at the start. As it turned out we did not add any new scouts but this was my plan if some had indeed joined in September:

1. Explain to the Scout and parent that my goal for them was to earn their Webelos badge. If the Scout was especially motivated he could also plan to try to earn his Arrow of Light as well.

2. During some den meetings I would have included some activities that applied to the Citizen and Fitness badges even though the rest of the Scouts were finished with those badges.

3. The "third" badge would have been one that no Scout had yet earned that we'd work on as a den.

4. The new Scout would obviously be included and signed off on all arrow of light requirements that we worked on even if he wasn't planning to earn it.

 

[AKdenldr]

Basementdweller -- you said, 'Super Achiever ridiculous' I agree!

 

To answer your questions -- the boys are Bears now. We've family camped once. I ran a summer program for the first time last summer and we hiked, did conservation projects, and went to day camp.

 

Monthly during spring to fall sounds like a good goal for camping -- I think I can sell this to the parents. We'll go to resident Webelos camp this summer. We have not camped with scouts yet.

 

You said, "Activity pins are mostly earned on the campouts." Which ones? Outdoorsman, Naturalist, Forester, and Geologist? I'm thinking Readyman you can do, or not in the outdoors. Any others or pieces and parts of others?

 

GKlose -- Thanks for the advise on training, will do. Greenbar Bill wrote the handbooks during which period?

 

And thanks for this comment, "I would suggest this: get them outdoors, and out of meeting rooms, sitting at tables. Do something. Get them hooked on activity."

 

From the responses I'm sensing I am on the right track with ditching the Webelos leader guide plan. (Not that there isn't a lot of cool hands on stuff in that book.)

[Basementdweller]

Our Webelos I's are getting their arrow of light probably in May this year. What does that leave for them to do you ask? We are visiting Troops, camporee's, resident camps, hiking, fishing, FUN and CAMPING and FUN. We just completed a series of winter hikes in a Park system. 10 hikes since Christmas. Had a blast.

 

Are you planning on resident camp??? it can be expensive.

 

I would den camp at least over the summer.

 

Do you have Webelo woods or another web specific camp?

 

Activity pins on camp outs are easy, Bring your subject expert to the camp and have a session in the morning of say an hour of work, then Fishing or frisbee or what ever your guys are into. lunch then another session. then a hike or swimming or what ever then another session. We have earned a lot of activity pins that way.

[GKlose]

AKdenldr -- my memory doesn't work as well as it should, so I didn't specify the years. Greenbar Bill, who is sort of like the maven of the Patrol Method (a young gentleman named Roland Philips, who died in WWI, was the maven of B-P's Patrol System), wrote Boy Scout handbooks prior to 1972, and then I think he came out of retirement to write the handbook that replaced the '72 one, maybe around 1978. He also wrote Scoutmaster Handbooks, and on this I'm a little more foggy. There is one great (!) 2-volume set called the 3rd edition set. I found copies by perusing used copies on amazon.com. One of them was a little pricey, but that's because it was in excellent condition (one that smells a little mildewed was downright cheap).

 

By the way, here is a link to a scan of Philips "Patrol System" writings: http://www.thedump.scoutscan.com/Patrol%20System.pdf

 

The idea being, of course, that since Greenbar Bill (officially, William Hillcourt) was someone who more or less invented the concept of Patrol Method for the BSA, drawing heavily on his own experiences, and that of B-P's Patrol System. If you understand the idea behind the Patrol Method, then I think you can easily see why the Webelos Den is structured the way it is, especially if you're lucky enough to have a good Den Chief.

 

Guy