MNBob

I am the Committee Chair for a Pack looking for information about Den Chiefs from those Packs/Troops who have sucessfully used them. What works? What doesn't work? How much help do they provide? How can Den Chiefs benefit dens and den leaders? If a den is struggling because of a poor den leader does having a Den Chief help or can it make the situation worse?

bbender: Thanks for pointing out that link to Baloo's Bugle! We're holding an important leaders meeting on Sunday and I've been trying to collect as much as information as I can about Cub Scouts 2010. The PDF has some good information that I haven't seen before. I also liked Bill Smith's column about Den Leaders. I've been telling leaders for the past couple of years that I feel den leader is the toughest job and we should avoid having den leaders fill multiple roles. Of course then I violate my own suggestion by also serving as the Committee Chair. I would add that from my experience Den

We have had a crossover group of Webelos who now expects that the parents should accompany their scouts on every campout.Interesting. My son crossed over Sunday with 7 others from his den. Seven of them attened their first Troop meeting last night where we were informed that their first campout is near the end of April. Every one of us parents are looking forward to sending them camping without staying with them.

We just did this one (http://www.usscouts.org/ceremony/aol.asp) on Sunday. It went over pretty well. Have a link to the one you've been using?

@acco40: LOL! That's a funny story.

Having took both CSDL and WDL training I understand the differences and the need for two classes. Webelos is definitely a change from Wolf Bear. I do not have the benefit of having actually taught the courses. Eagle92: Can you list some of the differences betweeen TCDL and CSDL training that help justify the need for two courses?

Webelos are very definitely CUB SCOUTS. All Cub Scout rules, regulations, and guidelines apply to them.The rules, regulations, etc are the Cub Scout program. Webelos are part of the Cub Scout program. That's what I said. Sorry that I've made this a semantics argument. I agree what Webelos are Cub Scouts but in a Pack meeting we'll sometimes refer to "Cub Scouts" meaning all the boys and other times we'll differentiate betwen "Cub Scouts" (Tigers, Wolves and Bears) and Webelos Scouts. My main point is that I see more difference between Webelos and other ranks than Tiger compared to Wolf and Bea

Would your training as a Webelos den leader have helped you be a good Wolf den leader?Yes The same is true for Tigers. Your training for Wolf/Bear/Webelos will not help you run a Tiger program.I disagree but we're all entitled to our opinions. My opinion may be in the minority but official training is not all that enlightening. You get an understanding of how Cub Scouts is organized and you get ideas from people who have done it before. But no one is going to convince me that after going through two other den leader classes (and committee training too) that Tiger training is going to pr

That's ok. Ranting helps relieve stress especially when you have empathetic readers. :)You can read my (long) Cub Scout leader rant in http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=268735 which sums up my whole leadership experience since my oldest son started as a Tiger in 2005. Round 2 begins in the fall with my youngest son as a Tiger.

I do not believe that Webelos are considered Cub Scouts. They are in the Cub Scout program but they are Webelos Scouts. If I understand correctly the Cub Scout program used to consist of Tiger Cub Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts. At that time boys earned their Tiger badge before the Bobcat badge. In 2006 this changed and the Tiger badge was earned after Bobcat and "Search, Discover, Share" was removed. Tiger has replaced Wolf as the first Cub Scout rank. So instead of Tiger Cub Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts the program just has Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts.

Here is another example of questionable integration. Looking at the upcoming "Univerisity of Scouting" for our Council (http://training.nsbsa.org/uploadedFiles/file/UofS/UofS-Catalog-Spring2010.pdf) it still lists two different classes -- 903 Den Leader Specific Training and 909 Tiger Leader Specific Training. If Tiger is now the first official year of Cub Scouts then "Den Leader" training should apply to all three ranks -- Tiger, Wolf and Bear. Is this an issue with our Council being behind the times? I'm already trained as a DL and WDL. This fall I will become a leader for my youngest s

Agreed Stosh, the ultimate goal should be to resolve and fix the issue. The main point of my long-winded response is to show that often there are lots of other things going on that might not be apparent to the casual observer so give your leaders a break and don't always assume they're at fault. But a more general question is how do you bring accountability to a volunteer organization especially if you want to get rid of a particular volunteer but do not have anyone available to take over the position?

I once ran into a friend at Walmart who at the time was the wife of a Scoutmaster. We became friends a few years earlier when she was a den leader of the pack and I was the Cub Master. I also trained her husband in Scoutmaster Specific, so we saw each other now and then. Well this time when we met, she apologized for bothering me so much when I was the Cub Master. She saw that I was confused, so she explained that she saw first ahnd the stress of being the one person everyone calls when they have a problem.This is exactly how I feel except I'm not the Cubmaster. I'm the Committee Chair. Half w

I don't need a BSA pre-planned program for that. You just ned someone to spend about 15 minutes with you to share how den management needs to work.The key word in your sentence is the first -- "I". I agree that for you, or me or plenty of other leaders being a den leader comes naturally and doesn't seem all that difficult. But for others it can seem overwhelming. In fact, as CC this year while talking with other leaders about how we could get more volunteers to step up, I had one of the other leaders basically tell me that what may seem clear and straight forward to some of us is overwhelming

@Scoutfish: Someone I can finally relate to! Sounds like I've found another minority Pack where not everything works as perfectly as explained at training and as listed in the leader books. At it's height (first year Webelos) my den had 16 Scouts. (Yes I know that's twice the recommneded size but we made it work with 2 den leaders and by splitting into patrols but still one den.) I had parents similar to what you describe. All I could do was repeatedly remind them where their Scout was falling behind and what projects he needed to complete at home. Eventually I recognized that some Scouts

Thanks for posting the link. As I suspected its intended for the CO which is why I've probably never seen it and why we've never done something like this. But the basic idea of creating a list and then asking each person in turn down the list is a decent idea as opposed to asking for volunteers. Last fall my call for volunteers resulted in one response. She became the Assistant Cubmaster and is now the Cubmaster. But I'll need help from the other den leaders who obviously know their parents better than I do. But they don't always seem willing to help me and I struggle with what I can do to im

Yes, we settle for that. Do I like to? No. First, can you please direct me to the "BSA leader selection process" as I have no idea what that is. If it involved the Charter Org that might explain why as our Pack pretty much operates independent of the CO. We have a COR to sign the papers but otherwise there is no other involvement. In the short time I've been on this forum I'm often surprised how quickly others become critical of people. Perhaps our Pack is in the minority and I'm glad others do not apparently experience any difficulty in finding volunteers. I just haven't been told what t

ScoutNut: I think you are being a little too pessimistic. I don't actually disagree with much of what you said but I do think it assumes a good and dedicated leader. Another quote from the same page that you are quoting (http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Parents/role.aspx):It's important to remember that the adult leaders of your son's den and pack are volunteers who give their own time to provide a quality program for your son. While they have been carefully selected and extensively trained for their roles, there are always times when they could use help from parents in the pack."

"What I can't understand is this concept that advancement shouldn't happen in the den. That has never been the Scoutng program."It doesn't help when you find conflicting information online. Regardless our Pack will still choose to do advancement activities in den meetings. http://usscouts.org/factfiction/cubscouts.asp Statement The Den Leader should set aside time in meetings to work with boys who arent advancing along with the rest. Fact or Fiction Fiction Comments For both Wolf and Bear, virtually all achievements are designed to be done at home, between the Cub Scout

"I'm a bit confused. May IS graduation for all Cub Scouts."Sorry, didn't mean to confuse. When my current Web2 den joined 5 years ago as Tigers, the Pack operated with the goal of all dens earning rank advancement at Blue & Gold. We found this impractical as well as distracting to B&G (focus became too much on advancement and not enough celebration, just our opinion). Yes, we will award rank advancements as soon as they are earned but as it has turned out there are no dens that have boys ready. That's partly because our Tiger and Wolf dens are only meeting once per month and the Bear d

Our B&G is this Sunday (March 7). Two years ago we made the decision to stop making B&G the rank advancement goal for all dens. Instead May is now the "Graduation Pack meeting" for Tigers, Wolves and Bears. Dens could hand out awards at B&G for any Scouts who were ahead of the rest of the den but as it turns out this year no other dens are handing out any awards. Thus our schedule looks like: - Opening flag ceremony - Welcome - Summit award for a former member of the Pack - Arrow of Light & Crossover All 11 second year Webelos earned AoL and are crossing over so we've s

Just because a boy has gotten his AOL does NOT mean he has to cross over. He can wait along with his non-AOL buddies and cross over at the end of the 5th grade as a den.Ultimately I think this discussion boils down to what is the proper length of a Webelos program? Our Pack has always functioned with Webelos starting June 1 after 3rd grade and running until Feb/March of 5th grade. Cross over date depends completely on the Troop receiving the Scouts but in every year that I have been involved that has either been in February or March. Last year was the first year where cross over did not o

Lisabob: nice reply I can understand that Webelos scouts who did not earn Arrow of Light could, on average, be less likely to continue in Boy Scouts than those Webelos who earned Arrow of Light. I'm just not sure I understand that Jimmy the 5th grader who turned 11 in January but didn't earn his Arrow of Light is any more ready to join Boy Scouts than Billy the 5th grader who turns 11 in May. says a boy is ready to begin a program designed for ages 11 through 17 without yet being 11I guess for me it boils down to whether or not it is really designed for boys age 11 or is it designed

Joining Boy Scouts is equivalent to obtaining your driving license? Poor analogy IMO. Then change the rule a different way. Either a boy needs to be at least 10 and earned his arrow of light or he needs to have completed the 5th grade. Again, we should be encouraging not discoursing boys to join Boy Scouts. I don't see why some of you are unable to see why there might be an issue if a den of Scouts is not able to cross over and join together. Fortunately my 5th grade son who won't be 11 until August has earned his AoL so it's not an issue. Since it's not my problem I'll stop worrying abou

Ok, another question then since my son will soon be part of a Boy Scout Troop. For those of you who are part of a Troop right now, how would you handle this scenario: The Scouts select a Troop activity such as going to the place I describe above. A parent who is not the leader (or I suppose even a leader) mentions that laser tag is an unauthorized activity. The Scoutmaster says something like "It's ok because we don't plan to file a tour permit and we've done this before. It's only laser tag."