MNBob

I am the Committee Chair for a Pack looking for information about Den Chiefs from those Packs/Troops who have sucessfully used them. What works? What doesn't work? How much help do they provide? How can Den Chiefs benefit dens and den leaders? If a den is struggling because of a poor den leader does having a Den Chief help or can it make the situation worse?

bbender: Thanks for pointing out that link to Baloo's Bugle! We're holding an important leaders meeting on Sunday and I've been trying to collect as much as information as I can about Cub Scouts 2010. The PDF has some good information that I haven't seen before. I also liked Bill Smith's column about Den Leaders. I've been telling leaders for the past couple of years that I feel den leader is the toughest job and we should avoid having den leaders fill multiple roles. Of course then I violate my own suggestion by also serving as the Committee Chair. I would add that from my experience Den

We have had a crossover group of Webelos who now expects that the parents should accompany their scouts on every campout.Interesting. My son crossed over Sunday with 7 others from his den. Seven of them attened their first Troop meeting last night where we were informed that their first campout is near the end of April. Every one of us parents are looking forward to sending them camping without staying with them.

We just did this one (http://www.usscouts.org/ceremony/aol.asp) on Sunday. It went over pretty well. Have a link to the one you've been using?

@acco40: LOL! That's a funny story.

Having took both CSDL and WDL training I understand the differences and the need for two classes. Webelos is definitely a change from Wolf Bear. I do not have the benefit of having actually taught the courses. Eagle92: Can you list some of the differences betweeen TCDL and CSDL training that help justify the need for two courses?

Webelos are very definitely CUB SCOUTS. All Cub Scout rules, regulations, and guidelines apply to them.The rules, regulations, etc are the Cub Scout program. Webelos are part of the Cub Scout program. That's what I said. Sorry that I've made this a semantics argument. I agree what Webelos are Cub Scouts but in a Pack meeting we'll sometimes refer to "Cub Scouts" meaning all the boys and other times we'll differentiate betwen "Cub Scouts" (Tigers, Wolves and Bears) and Webelos Scouts. My main point is that I see more difference between Webelos and other ranks than Tiger compared to Wolf and Bea

Would your training as a Webelos den leader have helped you be a good Wolf den leader?Yes The same is true for Tigers. Your training for Wolf/Bear/Webelos will not help you run a Tiger program.I disagree but we're all entitled to our opinions. My opinion may be in the minority but official training is not all that enlightening. You get an understanding of how Cub Scouts is organized and you get ideas from people who have done it before. But no one is going to convince me that after going through two other den leader classes (and committee training too) that Tiger training is going to pr

That's ok. Ranting helps relieve stress especially when you have empathetic readers. :)You can read my (long) Cub Scout leader rant in http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=268735 which sums up my whole leadership experience since my oldest son started as a Tiger in 2005. Round 2 begins in the fall with my youngest son as a Tiger.

I do not believe that Webelos are considered Cub Scouts. They are in the Cub Scout program but they are Webelos Scouts. If I understand correctly the Cub Scout program used to consist of Tiger Cub Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts. At that time boys earned their Tiger badge before the Bobcat badge. In 2006 this changed and the Tiger badge was earned after Bobcat and "Search, Discover, Share" was removed. Tiger has replaced Wolf as the first Cub Scout rank. So instead of Tiger Cub Scouts, Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts the program just has Cub Scouts and Webelos Scouts.

Here is another example of questionable integration. Looking at the upcoming "Univerisity of Scouting" for our Council (http://training.nsbsa.org/uploadedFiles/file/UofS/UofS-Catalog-Spring2010.pdf) it still lists two different classes -- 903 Den Leader Specific Training and 909 Tiger Leader Specific Training. If Tiger is now the first official year of Cub Scouts then "Den Leader" training should apply to all three ranks -- Tiger, Wolf and Bear. Is this an issue with our Council being behind the times? I'm already trained as a DL and WDL. This fall I will become a leader for my youngest s

Agreed Stosh, the ultimate goal should be to resolve and fix the issue. The main point of my long-winded response is to show that often there are lots of other things going on that might not be apparent to the casual observer so give your leaders a break and don't always assume they're at fault. But a more general question is how do you bring accountability to a volunteer organization especially if you want to get rid of a particular volunteer but do not have anyone available to take over the position?

I once ran into a friend at Walmart who at the time was the wife of a Scoutmaster. We became friends a few years earlier when she was a den leader of the pack and I was the Cub Master. I also trained her husband in Scoutmaster Specific, so we saw each other now and then. Well this time when we met, she apologized for bothering me so much when I was the Cub Master. She saw that I was confused, so she explained that she saw first ahnd the stress of being the one person everyone calls when they have a problem.This is exactly how I feel except I'm not the Cubmaster. I'm the Committee Chair. Half w

I don't need a BSA pre-planned program for that. You just ned someone to spend about 15 minutes with you to share how den management needs to work.The key word in your sentence is the first -- "I". I agree that for you, or me or plenty of other leaders being a den leader comes naturally and doesn't seem all that difficult. But for others it can seem overwhelming. In fact, as CC this year while talking with other leaders about how we could get more volunteers to step up, I had one of the other leaders basically tell me that what may seem clear and straight forward to some of us is overwhelming

@Scoutfish: Someone I can finally relate to! Sounds like I've found another minority Pack where not everything works as perfectly as explained at training and as listed in the leader books. At it's height (first year Webelos) my den had 16 Scouts. (Yes I know that's twice the recommneded size but we made it work with 2 den leaders and by splitting into patrols but still one den.) I had parents similar to what you describe. All I could do was repeatedly remind them where their Scout was falling behind and what projects he needed to complete at home. Eventually I recognized that some Scouts