Dad Wants son to Eagle Before High School

[Mafaking]

 

Webelos dad visits and asks about our advancement program.

Yada-yada:

- summer camp with new scout program

- Lots of camping oportunities to complete FCFY

- Lots of MB Counselors on our committee, and SM's

- POR's

 

Dad says "Yes but I want him to get his eagle before he enters high school. All the scouts and families in my den feel the same way."

 

 

What would you have replied?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

After I finish snorting my coffee, you mean?

 

We had a couple of these dads in my son's webelos den. They crossed over into the same troop as us and this was their primary concern. One of them expected his sons to be Eagles at age 12, because the dad allegedly had done it.

 

Guess what, the kids are 15-16 and not yet Eagles.

 

The SM at the time simply told them that it was not impossible, but quite unusual in this troop for boys to get to Eagle before they're about 15. He told them that the troop does not do merit badge classes. At some point, he indicated that adults would do a lot to encourage a boy to get to first class, but after that it was really far more up to the boy.

 

One other thing that may work for you - ask the parents to pick out a couple of young men in the troop that they would like their sons to use as role models. These are typically going to be older boys who show a lot of patience, responsibility, kindness toward the young kids, leadership, etc, right?

 

Then tell them how those role models advanced in rank.

 

I know when my son joined, the boys I most wanted my son to emulate (in terms of behavior, comportment, skill, etc.) were mostly Star and Life scouts. They did not make Eagle until they were junior and seniors in high school. Maybe pointing this out to your new parents (if it fits your troop's profile) will help them recognize that there's more to scouts than rank advancement.

[Scoutfish]

Ask that dad if he ever cooked a pig or turkey.

 

You cook a pig at 350 degrees for around 6 or 7 hours. (assuming he's around the 80 to 120 pound range). Do it right, the pig will be cooked just right...not too much..not too little.

Everybody enjoys the meal.

 

This dad sounds like the type to say :" If it's 6 hours at 350 degrees, that means 3 hours at 700 degrees...which means 1 1/2 hours at 1400 degrees , right?"

 

Except at 1400 degrees, the outside of the pig will be a charred husk , while the very inside will be a bloody raw mess.

 

What could have been a vey fine pig , now instead is ruined because dad couldn't/ wouldn't let things happen at their own pace.

 

Ask dad if he ever tried to turn a dirt yard into a perfect lawn over night? Did you double the fertilizer? Maybe triple it? Then you watered it straight for 4 days?

Instead of a nice lush lawn...you washed away all the seed and burn the soil and ruined the ph balance and acidity with all the fertilizer. Don't say sod, as sod was still grown at it's own natural pace at a sod farm.

 

Some things just can't be rushed!

Ask dad if which one does he want for his son: quality, or quantity?

[Twocubdad]

"I wish you the best in finding a troop that operates that way."

 

And yes, I have used that line a number of times.

 

Two weeks ago we had our Webelos campout. In the afternoon, when all the boys are on a hike around camp, we do an orientation session with the Webelos parents. In introducing the topic of advancement, I ask the parents to close their eyes and envision the morning before their son receives his Eagle award. Their son is heading to the ceremony early and as he leaves they give him a big hug, tell him how proud they are of him, suggest that he really needs to do a better job shaving and that he needs to put gas in the car.

 

Of course the point is they need to be envisioning their son receiving his Eagle somewhere along about his junior or senior year of high school.

[SMT224]

To be quite honest, I really don't have time to put up with this kind of nonsense. We have 30 boys in our Troop that love to camp, hike, do service projects, have fun, and move along the trail to Eagle at about a rank a year. We enable advancement, not push it. A hyper-advancement parent would simply not be a good fit, and my experience in trying to convince a parent that is as driven as you describe to let his little piglet cook to perfection has not been good. I think it's better to be very transparent at the get-go so they can join a Troop that best meets their needs.

 

And since there actually are Troops in my area that focus significantly on advancement above all else, I'd simply say...

 

"Find another Troop. Best of luck."

 

[Eagle92]

I love the pig analogy, especially coming from the town with the best NC BBQ .

 

Seriously though that is a very good analogy. And yes i've dealt with parents like that, i.e want Eagle before HS, can't get license until Eagle, etc, etc.

 

For me I tell the story of 2 Eagles I know. The first Eagle rushed and rushed and rushed, getting his Eagle in 8th grade and then promptly leaving Scouting. He had some good memories, but nothing really outstanding in his Scouting career.

 

The other Eagle also felt pushed to get Eagle ASAP like his cousin the eagle above and was Life at 13. But something happened along the trail, he took some different, more challenging trails to Eagle. He went through Brownsea 22, the predecessor to today's NYLT. He got inducted into the Order of the Arrow, he went to Jambo, and did a 50 canoeing expedition up in Canada. He was having so much fun, that he slowed down on working some of the important, yet dull, paperwork MBs like Safety and the dreaded Personal Management. But eventually he completed his trail at the age of 18, and doesn't regret the time spent along the trail one bit.

 

That second Eagle continued on as a ASM and had alot more adventures as he helped those continuing on the trail: joined Sea Scouts, became super active in the OA (becoming a Vigil Honor memember along the way), spent 3 months at British Scout camps as part of the European Camp Staff Program, going to a world scout jambo, etc.

 

So my advice would be to let the Scouts go at their own pace and have fun. Only real advancement advice I have is 1) go to summer camp ASAP and master those T-2-1 skills, 2) as soon as you become Life, get the project approved and completed ASAP so that the really hard part of Eagle is completed and you can have some fun with that monkey off your back, and 3)try, key word is TRY, to get Eagle before you hit 18 so you can wear that eagle patch some (but you can wear it until 21 in Venturing ), but no matter what, HAVE FUN!

 

PS My cousin finally got back involved in Scouting when his son became a TC a few years back as a TCDL. Son is now a scout with dad as an ASM. Both are taking the time to have some fun. Both became Arrowmen in my old lodge, Chilanktakoba 397, this past May and are really having fun.

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Hoping I didn't bust out laughing, I would reply that as a SM, I am fond of quoting our founder, Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, who said "Advancement's like a suntansomething that happens naturally while you're having fun in the out-of-doors." I would continue by saying that advancement is something we do not rush. It must be done at a pace which is best suited to each scout. One of the main goals in our troop is to foster growth and responsiblity in the outdoors through fun, games and skills. Certainly we want and expect scouts to advance, but that will happen as we are doing what the troop does.

 

Scouting (and Eagle) is a journey, not a destination.

[scoutldr]

"What would you have replied?"

 

Unfortunately, that's not something the SM controls. My reply would have been, "Well, that's up to your son, not me."

 

Then provide your program. If it doesn't meet their timeline, wish them luck with another troop.

[Eagle1973]

I would have replied: "In our Troop, we provide the best opportunity for a Scout to earn Eagle. If his, repeat his, goal is to earn Eagle before entering HS, then we'll do our part to help him."

 

I don't have a problem with young Eagles, for I would have missed this goal by about 6 months, I'd have to research my records to find out why it took me so long... ;-)

[Crew21_Adv]

Mafaking,

 

Greetings!

 

 

You've received some really great, witty and knowledgeable replies. It may be possible, but it is not totally up to the dad (parents).

 

 

I would have replied as a question, just simple and along the lines of scoutldr, I would add.

 

Dad says "Yes but I want him to get his eagle before he enters high school. All the scouts and families in my den feel the same way."

 

I'd reply. "That is great; when does your SON want to get his eagle?"

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)

[Horizon]

I don't get this question that often, since I address it upfront.

 

It is possible to EARN the Eagle before high school, if the Scout wants to. They will need to be very active (have you signed up for summer camp yet?). They should not miss a campout. They should not miss a meeting.

 

We have the Council list of MBCs available at every Troop meeting. We hold Scoutmaster Conferences within 1 week of request. We hold BORs typically within 2 weeks of request. The Troop does NOTHING to stand in the way of Advancement, making it 100% in the Scouts control to determine how fast they advance.

 

I was a 13 year old Eagle (a few weeks shy of my 14th birthday). I stayed active.

I have a 14 year old Eagle in my Troop who is now 16. He has stayed active.

I have a boy who just earned his Eagle with two weeks to spare. He was active.

I have another boy who just earned his Eagle with 2 days to spare. He hit Life in Junior High, and then got busy with other activities - coming back to finish.

 

EVERY one of those Scouts is an Eagle, and nobody cares about age anymore.

 

If you have a Den that is advancement focused, then you can teach them about Scouting. If you are stating that you won't support a boy on a fast track - then YOU are the one not following the system. I would apologize for this statement, except that the apology is owed to me. I tire of reading on this forum that all of the young Eagle must not deserve it, or didn't really earn it, or must have dropped out after getting their Eagle. Each time one of you posts that - you are insulting me, and the young Eagles that I have know through my decades of Scouting.

[SR540Beaver]

Scoutfish, great analogy!!! We had a prospective father/son just like this check us out back around crossover time. His son was going to be one of the earliest Eagles in the Council and earn every MB. Dad said so. Fotunately, they went elsewhere. This guy was a AAA Type personality and we saw nothing but trouble ahead. My son staffed Cub Resident Camp when this guy and his son came thru and the dad kept questioning every word my son was saying during a knot class. My son (normally a very courteous scout) finally asked him if he wanted to come forward and teach the class for him and it shut the guy up.

 

I've passed your response on to the other two ASM's who I work with in our new scout program, our SM and our CC so we can be "armed" in the future. Thanks!

[SR540Beaver]

Horizon,

 

No need to feel insulted. There are some younger boys who are more mature than others, are self motivated and do more than the checklist to earn it and then remain active.

 

I know of one boy in our council who earned Eagle at 13 and has almost every MB. He is either 15 or 16 now. But he is the exception to the rule. He has also served in a Lodge position for the last two years, staffed NYLT and remains very active in his Troop.

 

The gentleman I spoke of in my earlier post had his son's scouting career planned out for him....literally. He already had on paper when his son would earn each rank and Eagle out. Why? Well as mentioned, dad is Type AAA and a big wig in the bar association. He was building a resume for his son and himself thru his son. Once he Eagled out at 12 or 13, they might stay involved as time allows, but they were moving on to other resume builders.

 

We all run across the checklist parent who pushes their son to Eagle early so they can move on to bigger and better accomplishments. That is why people have a problem with young Eagles. A good number of them get there that way instead of the good old fashioned way of just loving the program, being self motivated and actually wanting it. If you were not one of those, you have no need to feel insulted.

[Stosh]

I would have asked him if he expected to be president of the company he/she worked for in 2 years.

 

I would have asked him if his boy did football he'd be a star quarterback on the varsity team while still in middle school.

 

I would have asked him if his boy played an instrument he would be playing a solo at the high school while still in middle school.

 

It sounds like this father is interested in getting scouts over and done with before he gets into high school and has conflicts with music, sports, or any other extra activities. I would suggest he forgo scouting and focus more on what dad wants for him, but Eagle ain't gonna happen.

 

Stosh

[Mafaking]

Horizon,

 

Thanks for your comments. I think what resonated with me most is that all nine of his Webelos and their families want to reach Eagle by fourteen. No variance for the individual scout. The implication within our conversation also hinted that the early age was targeted so the scout could be done with scouting by then.

 

I then stated that this is the time when the scouts is most volnerable to bad choices. And that in the early teenage years it is percisley the time when a scouting program can serve the scout the most.

 

These comments were lost in translastion into cub a scouter's ear.

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Mafaking)