signing Eagle Application

[cheffy]

give me some sage advice here. A Scout in our Troop has finished his project. As Scout master we had his conf and signed the application. It took him several months to get the remaining signatures. It wasn't that the people were not available he just dragged his feet. Now he needs to fill out a new application since the old one is a pre 2009 printing and council/national will not accept it.

Between the time the application was signed and now the youth has gotten into more than a little trouble with the law to the point that his name was in the local paper so everyone knows.

Question is can I refuse to sign the new application based on what we all know now. Obviously not living Scout law/oath, spirit and never shows up at troop events. Dad is pushing for him to get Eagle before his court date hoping it will look good to the judge.

[John-in-KC]

I'm going to make this real simple: Have a quiet cup of coffee with your District Advancement Chair.

 

You have a legitimate allegation that this Scout has not lived the Scout Oath and Law in his daily life. The DAC needs to know not what the local rag says, but what the charges in front of the Court are.

 

Let him guide you! This is a question best answered on the local ground.

 

If, after visiting with the DAC, you cannot in good conscience re-sign the Eagle App, then it may be time for you to have a business visit with your UC and your COR. A simple course of action, one that takes the matter entirely out of your hands, is for the COR to tell the DE this youth member is no longer a part of your unit, and for the COR to tell you to package his records and deliver them to the family.

 

Good hunting.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Beavah]

Yah, cheffy, it's your signature, eh? It's your responsibility and honor and your word.

 

Yeh should put it down on paper only when you believe you can give your word.

 

If yeh can no longer give your word that this fellow merits the award of Eagle Scout, then you should not sign. Yeh don't need us or a DAC or anybody else to tell you that.

 

Maybe if the lad had cared enough about Scoutin' and being an Eagle, he would have finished up his paperwork and other requirements rather than gettin' in trouble with the law.

 

As to the dad wanting it to "look good for the judge", just think for a minute about that, eh? He's earnin' Eagle after his arrest. How does that make Scouting look to the judge? How does that make your troop look to your community when yeh show up in the paper under the headline "Local criminal awarded Eagle Scout".

 

Your word is your bond. It's your honor. Don't give it if yeh don't mean it. Yeh won't be doing either the boy or Scouting any favors.

 

Beavah

 

[Mike F]

cheffy,

 

Wow - this is a tough one.

 

Part of how this plays out might depend on scout's attitude and the nature of his indiscretions. If he was up to some good-natured "fun" which went over the edge and realizes it's time to clean up his act, I would work with him - and have done so with an Eagle candidate in the past.

 

If it was something more serious, like an undeniable violation of our values as expressed in the Scout Oath and Law, and he wasnt totally repentant and a model citizen in attempting to right his wrong, I wouldnt think twice about working to convince the eventual EBoR that this scout had not earned the right to share the title Eagle Scout with me and all the others who have earned it with honor.

 

If denied, this will likely go through appeals. Dont let that stop you from doing the right thing. Eagle is not just getting a bunch of requirements signed off its about living your life with integrity and honor. Thats why we have that little block concerning Scout Spirit.

 

Hang in there.

[ghermanno]

Cheffy,

 

I agree with John in KC and Beavah. Not knowing the severity of the alledged crime(s), and not needing to know, I would leave it in your hands as to your signature but ensure that the DAC and the DE know what the situation is completely. Give them the facts and how you feel about them but do not mix the two. Let them sort facts as facts and feelings as feelings.

 

I am sure you will do the right thing by both the BSA and the boy. Sometimes you have to learn the hard way.

 

My $0.02

 

YiS,

 

Rick

[Nike]

Before I signed anything, I'd have a heart to heart with the boy. Depending on the town, you can get your name in the paper for something as trivial as being caught on lovers' lane or not get in the news for murder.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Beavah is right: You have some idea in your own heart, and our word should be our bond.

 

Thinking back to the forever thread about Eagle, units, and youth earlier this summer, I guess I want you in a position where when you do deny an endoresement of the Eagle application, the BSA advancement process will stand behind you.

 

 

[scoutingagain]

I agree this is a tough one. If there is enough time between the court date and the lad's 18th birthday, I'd withold the signature until after the lad has had his day in court. As Nike pointed out I've seen our local paper publish all kinds of things that simply were'nt true, including charges against youth in the unit I serve. Unless you have 1st hand knowledge of the events that led to the charges you only know what's been printed in the paper, and I'd hate to see a scout denied Eagle based on what's in the paper alone.

 

I'd have a heart to heart talk with the lad. Then make your own determination as to whether or not the boy is worthy of being an Eagle scout. Don't let the paper, or others influence your decision. Make them based on your assessment of the boy and his character as you perceive them to be. As Beavah said, it's your signature. If it turns out you believe the lad is worthy, and the paper publish's an article about how Troop so and so awarded Eagle to an youth that had been arrested, well so be it. You will know in your heart what you beleive and if the boy deserves the award or not. At the same time, if YOU come to the conclusion he is not deserving of the award, do not be influenced by his parents or others. You need to make the decision.

 

 

SA

 

 

[BadenP]

I don't think this is a tough one at all, if his trangression was a serious rather than minor one you have the perfect grounds not to sign, I think pushing this off on the DAC is kind of a chickens way out, after all this is about YOUR signature not the EBOR so the DAC should not have to be dragged into it at this time. Now if his trangression was minor in nature than you just need to use your best judgement as to whether or not it disqualifies him for Eagle. If you say no then he can always appeal to the DAC at that time.

[cheffy]

Well here's the update. I talked with my council folks. when I signed the application way back when, the kid was OK. That's what I signed off on not what has happened since. I'm not going to base my decision on what I read in the paper or heard. Their thought is that the court date will come before the EBOR and things will shake out from there. They are accepting the old application based the time of signing. If things go South for the boy he probably won't be filling out a new app. anyway. If he does my council knows I probably will not sign it.

[evmori]

cheffy,

 

Thanks for the update. For what it's worth, I wouldn't sign the application until after the court date.

 

And since there is a court date it sounds like this is a little more serious than turning over trash cans.

[Mike F]

cheffy,

 

Your scout should explain this whole episode to the EBoR. If I was on the board, I would want to look in the scout's eyes while he explained what happened and what he learned. I would not care if our legal system found him not guilty on some legal technicality. What I really want to know is if the scout can demonstrate what it means to be trustworthy. Can he come totally clean and accept the consequences of his actions? That is the true test of character. And better to learn these tough lessons at 17 than at 37.

 

Hang in there.