Inactive Scout moving to another state

[CaliDrmr09]

I haven't been active in Scouting for about six months because I don't like the SM of the troop. We live in a small town and there aren't many choices for joining another troop without driving like 40 miles round trip. I'm 14, so it isn't like I can drive myself. We are moving to another state in January and I want to get back into Scouting and earn my Eagle. When I find a new troop in my new city, what records do I have to have to transfer all my stuff? I don't want to lose anything since I am almost a Life Scout even now (all I need is my BoR and my SMC). Will the new troop contact my old troop, or just the District office to get my records? Or, do I have records I need to go pickup to take to the new troop in my new state before I move? Or, is there some kinda Scouting records site online that my new troop can get my records on? My friends in my old troop say the SM hates me and talks bad about me, so, is there any way he could have erased my records? If he did, can I just show the new troop my Scout manual and my signed rank cards and merit badge cards as proof of my achievements?

[Beavah]

Yah, Cali, welcome to the forums!

 

To answer your question, if your old troop has been good about filing their advancement reports with your council, when you submit a transfer application to your new troop, your new council should be able to call up your records on the ScoutNet computer system and transfer everything automatically. It helps if you know your current council #, but it's not a big deal for them to look it up.

 

As a backup, it's good to have a copy of your troop's records (the advancement reports they've submitted), or your rank/MB award cards or blue cards.

 

Now, I doubt that your SM really hates you. Most adults really don't have much time or energy for hatin' kids, eh? Just that some adults and kids "click" better than others as partners or friends. Even if yeh didn't get along, I think it's pretty unlikely he'd try to torpedo your records, and there's no way for him to do it even if he could, eh?

 

What I'd suggest is meet with him and your troop's advancement chair before you leave. It shows good character to try to leave on a positive note, even with people yeh don't get along with. I bet if yeh do that, you'll be surprised at how much they'll help you out.

 

Stay in Scoutin' and find a good new troop to join. Look for good people you want to be with and help lead.

 

Good luck!

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

Beavah gave some great advice. My only additional advice comes from my experience with SCOUTNET. i would contact your local council and request a copy of your advancement records. Although theoretically your records are suppose to move with you, my experience is that they don't. Again call your current council and get a copy of your records before the move.

 

Copies of your troop records are also good too. But the #1 record is your handbook with all the signatures and, if your troop uses them, the signature from your blue cards.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Welcome to the forums. Even after you move, I hope you take the time to keep up with what is being said here. Though most of the participants here are adults, there are youth and we always welcome your perspective on things.

 

I would listen to what others have said, but I would add one small thing to the list. Make sure you have your registration card and your ID number. That is how you are identified in the ScoutNet system, so having that very important. Also, take the time to verify that your troop and council office have all which is signed off in your book. And as others have said, keep your blue card copies of your merit badges.

 

When you get to your new home, make an effort to find a good troop. You will find plenty of advice here about what makes a good troop, but don't make this a snap decision. The time to meet with the leaders (youth and adult) of your perspective troops. Ask them about activities, fees, advancement, program planning, and the PLC. Obviously you have a beef with your old SM. Find a nice way to ask a perspective SM to find out how he would address your concerns. Don't expect to find the perfect troop on the first try. If you are in a sufficiently populated area, visit 4 or 5 troops, take notes, and weigh your decision. Do any of them call you back? Do the youth or adults return a call? Here is a website which I consider a good evaluation of a troop. Use what you like of this.

http://usscouts.org/cubscouts/goodtroop.asp

 

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Kudu]

Now, I doubt that your SM really hates you. Most adults really don't have much time or energy for hatin' kids, eh?

 

I knew two such Scoutmasters up north, both Eagle Scouts.

 

Both of them loved to talk about "Character & Leadership," and how important it was to earn Eagle.

 

Both were big fans of the BSA's classroom style of Scouting.

 

Both hated back-packing and did everything in their power to stamp it out.

 

Both had already killed a unit, but because they were Eagle Scouts were welcomed into new Troops.

 

Both were serial-haters who would focus on one natural leader at a time and do everything they possibly could to "correct" the Scout until he stopped coming to meetings.

 

When the gaze of the second Eagle Scout fell upon the District Commissioner's son (a class clown whose charisma had convinced a dozen boys to register), the kid hit back. All but the sons of a few adult leaders boycotted the next Court of Honor, in which all the ranks and Merit Badges earned at summer camp were to have been awarded.

 

When I was called in to take over only four active Scouts remained. About 100 badges stapled to rank cards and blue cards still sat in neat stacks on a shelf, bearing the names of boys who had forever dropped out of Scouting.

 

CaliDrmr09, two tests of a good new Troop for you are:

 

1) How often does the Troop go backpacking? Even if you yourself don't like that, it means that the Troop is grounded on real-world skills rather than on "Character & Leadership" which without a robust outdoor program are just fancy ways of expressing trivial adult opinions.

 

2) Who does all the talking at weekly meetings? Do the Scouts actually run the meetings, or do you hear mostly adult voices?

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

I wonder about your status as to Life Scout. It might behoove you to complete the SMC and BOR before you move. This probably means your going to need to start being active in your troop again, at least for a couple of months. I realize this may cause you some discomfort but think of it as a character building exercise. It will be easier for your advancement to transfer as a Life scout than to arrive and immediately ask your new troop for an SMC and BOR.

 

If I were on your BOR in the new troop I would probably ask about why you had not completed the SMC and BOR in your old troop and why you went inactive. Think about how you will answer that question without bad mouthing your former troop or SM as that would be bad form (scout is Loyal, Courteous). If you go this route, think and choose your words carefully. This is a good experience as you may have to do the same thing in a job interview later in life.

 

Best of luck either way.

 

Hal

 

 

[Kudu]

Hal_Crawford writes:

 

It might behoove you to complete the SMC and BOR before you move. This probably means your going to need to start being active in your troop again, at least for a couple of months.

 

What a remarkably BAD idea Hal!

 

Hal_Crawford writes:

 

I realize this may cause you some discomfort but think of it as a character building exercise.

 

All bad ideas in Scouting come under the headings of "Character Building Exercises" or "Leadership Development."

 

Hal_Crawford writes:

 

If I were on your BOR in the new troop I would probably ask about why you had not completed the SMC and BOR in your old troop and why you went inactive.

 

If CaliDrmr09 has "got game" with his outdoor skills, his new Troop will be able to judge his character quickly enough in the great backwoods where Baden-Powell designed Scouting to work.

 

If it wasn't for Scoutmaster Conferences and Boards of Review, how would indoor office experts keep a Troop adult-run? Baden-Powell did not use them for a very good reason.

 

Hal_Crawford writes:

 

This is a good experience as you may have to do the same thing in a job interview later in life.

 

Yeah, a job interview, CaliDrmr09. Your life-lesson here should be: Don't work for a jerk!

 

Kudu

[Hal_Crawford]

"Your life-lesson here should be: Don't work for a jerk!"

 

Thank you Kudu for your stunning and insightful analysis. I am so happy that you have never found yourself working for a jerk and have never had to discuss such situations when interviewing for the next job. I doubt that I would enjoy working for, with or around you. I doubt that 300 feet would be far enough.

 

But this is not really a referendum on parlor vs. outdoor scouting, BP, GBB or Woodbadge in the 21st century. The SMC and BOR are requirements for rank whether you like them or not.

 

That said, my point is that the scout is leaving the troop as an almost Life scout. I am suggesting that if he can complete that chapter in his trail to Eagle it would give him a a better starting point with his new troop. Indoors or out it is sometimes necessary for us to put our feelings about others aside to attain a goal. If he can do it, fine. If not he should consider how he will address this in the BOR that he will doubtless have soon after joining the new troop. The new troop will know nothing of his performance in his POR (I know you hate those too but they are a requirement for rank) or what he has done as a Star scout.

 

On the other hand he might want to drop back and spend some time in rank with the new troop, let them get to know him and then move forward with SMC and BOR. At 14 (maybe 15 by January) there is still plenty of time for that option

 

Our troop has had problems with getting records on transfer scouts. I would suggest (as others have) that CaliDrmr09 (great name BTW)assemble as much of his own records as possible, Blue Cards, Rank Cards and/or Troopmaster or Scoutnet printouts. I would think that most troops would accept the cards as proof of rank and merit badges. Documenting what he has done in a POR as a Star scout could be a challenge if the old SM is uncooperative. This could be resolved by either completing the SMC and BOR with his old troop, meeting with and mending fences with the old SM before leaving in hopes that he will forward complete records, hoping that the new SM will accept his word that he completed a POR or do a POR with the new troop. It is up to the scout to choose which is the best path.

 

Again Dreamer, best wishes for your future in scouting.

Hal

[John-in-KC]

Dreamer,

 

Welcome.

 

Hal gives one possible option for you. When you relocate and transfer, Scouting's National Advancement guidelines are your actual rank and merit badges move with you. Troops have the option of accepting work in progress. As far as I can determine, this includes Merit Badge partials, POR tenure, tenure for Scout Spirit... the whole kit n kaboodle. You're moving to a new Council, Counselors do not have to accept work they've not seen.

 

I wish you well, welcome back to Scouting. As Kudu says, find a unit which gets in the outdoors a lot ... often using backpacking. It really is fun to explore a wilderness that way.

 

At the same time, jerks and bloody fools are a part of LIFE. Not everyone honors the Scout Oath and Law in the real world. Learning how to manage Mr Scoutmaster, as Hal suggests, is not the worst idea in the world, no matter what Rick says.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Kudu]

Your life-lesson here should be: Don't work for a jerk!

 

Hal_Crawford writes:

 

Thank you Kudu for your stunning and insightful analysis.

 

You are welcome, Hal. I am happy that I could be of service to Scouting!

 

Let us review, shall we?

 

CaliDrmr09 "dreams" of his move away from this one-Troop town as an opportunity to rejoin the Scouting Movement.

 

Your advice is:

 

1) Do not trust your own judgement ("I don't like the SM of the troop").

 

2) Do not trust the judgement of your peers ("My friends in my old troop say the SM hates me and talks bad about me").

 

3) Go back to your old Troop and allow a jerk one last opportunity to pass judgement on you in the form of a potentially humiliating job interview because "It will be easier for your advancement."

 

My advice to CaliDrmr09:

 

1) Character is about trusting your own judgement and accepting the consequences.

 

2) Character is the opposite of sucking up to a jerk because that is the "easier" thing to do.

 

3) It is YOU who will be conducting the "job interviews" in January. John-in-KC brings up a good point: Part of that process should be to bring your "works in progress" (Scout Handbook, etc.), point to specific sign-offs, and ask the Scoutmasters you interview what "counts."

 

4) If asked, I would shrug off why I dropped out of Scouting for a while ("I didn't like it anymore"), and I would NOT talk about the old Scoutmaster. Period. New town, new friends, new future.

 

5) Even if you yourself don't plan to backpack, look for a Troop that is grounded in backwoods expeditions (Baden-Powell's source of character, like it or not); find a Scoutmaster that passes your interview, and you will do OK in 2010.

 

I once took in a Scout CaliDrmr09's age who got kicked out of his previous Troop. I never asked him questions about all that. I could tell just by looking at him that he was what Baden-Powell called a true "hooligan:" constantly in trouble at school and at home. But in the context of Scouting he always lived up to my expectations, and he was the best backpacker and SPL I ever had the pleasure of knowing.

 

Kudu

 

One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction.

 

--Baden-Powell, from the article "Are Our Boys Degenerating?" circa 1918.

 

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[Twocubdad]

It's very reassuring to me, Cali, that you think so much of the program that despite a bad experience you are still looking to move forward with the program in your new town. I hope you find a better fit there.

 

Like every other place on the Internet, you need to keep an open mind about what you read here and make your own decision about the value of the information.

 

The bulk of the info you've received about records is solid and straight forward: pack you own chute. If you have your original, initialed handbook advancement records, rank cards and merit badge blue cards, I think most Scout leaders will take that as the gold standard. Most of us understand that troop records and even council records can be a problem. Hopefully your troop and council are on the ball so that your records transfer smoothly.

 

I agree with Hal that you should try to complete your Life BOR with your current troop. Obviously, if there is a real conflict with the SM which would make that a problem, that's another story. Only you can decide if the problems with your current are too much to have to put up with. But I would suggest you make the effort, especially since you have about six months to get it done.

 

In the troop I serve -- and in most other troops I'm familiar with -- the Scout Spirit and Position of Responsibility requirements are signed off by me, the Scoutmaster, during the SM conference. That's a big part of what I talk about with the Scout, how the live the Oath and Law in their everyday life and how the did in their POR, what they learned from the experience, the problems they encountered and how they solved them, etc. If you are a new Scout just joining the troop, it would be difficult for me to evaluate you on those two requirements. If those two requirements are signed off in your handbook, I would be obligated to accept them as complete, but I'm still going to have some questions.

 

Secondly, and probably more importantly, is that I consider the Life Scoutmaster conference more significant than the Eagle conference. With me, your Eagle conference is a victory lap. Life is where you and I are going to work through any "character issues" we may have. That includes a lot of intangible stuff usually thrown in under the heading of "Scout Spirit", but includes things like attitude, participation, leadership, discipline, etc. etc. In my mind, when I sign off on a Life Scout, I have it in my mind that the Scout is ready to be an Eagle (pending a few merit badges, a project and some other requirements).

 

Obviously, that is a personal thing with me. Your mileage may vary. Many other leaders may disagree with that philosophy and many more have probably never thought about it that way. But at minimum, most will agree that signing off on a Life award for a Scout they barely know will give them pause.

 

All I am suggesting is that you can avoid all this stuff by wrapping up Life at your current troop and making a clean start at your new troop.

 

But it's your call to make.

[Kudu]

If I were to sit in judgement of Dreamer's "Scout Spirit" after he took the above advice, I would want to know why he was in such a rush to associate with a jerk just to get Life signed off while he was still 14. I would ask how it felt to ignore his sense of right and wrong.

 

All the requirements in question here, Scout Spirit, Position of Responsibility (POR), Scoutmaster Conference, and Board of Review, are fake Scouting requirements that were added to the BSA by the YMCA and White Stag just to take Scouting away from the Scouts and give it to the adults. The basic idea is to force Scouts to get their "values" or "character" validated by adults rather than from the innate self-confidence that comes from absolute mastery of the backwoods, as Baden-Powell intended.

 

Even when such adults are on their "best behavior" as in this thread, they simply can not help but undermine a Scout's self-confidence by suggesting that he go associate with an adult with whom at best he does not get along, and at worst is toxic.

 

The whole reason that White Stag destroyed Bill Hillcourt's life work was get Scouts to think like business managers rather than backwoods Patrol Leaders. So that is what he should do: Act like a business manager and remember at all times that HE is the one who will be conducting the job interviews in January.

 

He could interview to find a Scoutmaster that will accept his Life POR and Scout Spirit.

 

But a good business manger also knows how to negotiate. If he really likes one Troop more than the others he could offer to serve six months in a POR at his new Troop as they get to know him. That is certainly a superior moral choice than crawling back on his belly to a bad Scoutmaster just to get to his Eagle six months quicker.

 

If he interviewed me and if he seemed to be a typical indoor Eagle, then I would accept the sign-offs. He earned them.

 

However, if he was obviously an outdoorsman and a natural leader I would ask him what I ask all my "Real" Scouts: "What will it take to get you to ignore the POR requirements and serve as a leader for as long as you feel the Spirit of Scouting rushing through your veins?"

 

A Real leader serves because it is his nature and because it is the right thing to do, NOT to satisfy a stupid POR requirement.

 

Kudu