Scoutmaster assigning MB counselors

[RememberSchiff 3703]

Part of Adult Association is learning who to avoid. Our SM will give recommendations up front, but fellow scouts who previously went to counselors for this merit badge know which counselors are "awesome", "easy", "hard", and "terrible", and "ok" usually carry the most weight for a scout seeking merit badge (go figure). This becomes another lesson in making good decisions for the scout not the SM. Hopefully by the 21st lesson, the scout will be quite good at making those decisions.

 

This is explained to the scout when he asks for his blue card from our SM. 'Advancement (Education) is your responsibility, you get out what you put in so invest your time and energies wisely'. Our SM asks the scout why he believes the counselor selected is a good choice and what the scout can do if the counselor is not. We have troop alumni return to meetings and tell our SM how important this later was in selecting colleges, college courses, and job hunting.

 

Occasionally, we have scouts come back after the first couple of counselor meetings or non-meetings if the counselor is a no-show and ask for a different counselor. The SM then has a conference with the scout to sort things out, sometimes a new counselor is selected and note sent to District Advancement Chair.

 

The gate swings both ways.

 

[Eagle69 46]

Ok, I'm a bit confused here.

 

There was a comment in this thread saying something like "make sure your MB Counselors are registered/approved by District/Council or the Merit Badges signed off by them will be null and void". Who is going to know who signed off on a boy's Merit Badges? As far as I know in our council nobody ever sees a blue card outside of the troop advancement chair. I was SM for 28 years (1979-2007) and now am an ASM and have never seen a blue card leave the troop. Shoot we do Merit Badges without a blue card ever being done at times. I'm sure if I asked about a District/Council Merit Badge Counselor List I'd get a blank look from out DE.

[John-in-KC 311]

Eagle 69,

 

To your last comment, you had best not get a blank look from your DE. One of the Professionals in your Council is the Staff Adviser to the Council Advancement Committee. That is the group of folks obligated by ACP*P #33088 to develop and maintain a roster of MB Counselors for the Council (in larger Councils the list is delegated to the distrcts rather often though).

 

I have to admit though, having just gone to the Quawpaw Council website, you don't have your MB Counselor roster online. Our Council does.

[Eagle732 27]

Good point about shopping for counselors. A Scout goes to a MBC and figures he'll be too strict so he shops for another. The name of the MBC should be on the blue card before the SM signs, if the Scout changes MBCs then he would need a new card and an explanation why he needs to change.

[John-in-KC 311]

Here's my opinion...

 

The Scoutmaster, as the Program Officer of a Troop, is the keeper of the Advancement Method for the Troop. The standards he sets and enforces determine how well or how poorly Advancement happens in the unit.

 

If Mr/Ms Scoutmaster allows the youth to "shop" for an easy Counselor, he/she deserves what the Scouts return back as completed MB apps.

 

If Mr/Ms Scoutmaster does not look in on programs at Scout Camp, he/she deserves the information the Camp gives back to him as MBs completed.

 

If Mr/Ms Scoutmaster allows the youth to attend a MB Mill program, be it a MB "University" or a commercial program, without checking it out first, he/she deserves the completed MB apps received at the end of the day.

 

If you know the people, know the programs, and know what's right for the youth, they'll learn better than if you defer to "their judgment."

 

[Lisabob 13]

Eagle 69, this apparently varies a lot from place to place. In my district, troops are required to submit blue cards to council and they are checked for accuracy. We have had MBs turned down for boys because the "counselor" was not on the list of approved counselors.

 

To answer the original question: In my son's troop it has varied from one scoutmaster to the next. The last SM just handed out a signed blue card upon request, didn't even really keep track (or ask??) which badge it was for, let alone who the counselor would be. I know for my son, the result was that he has a big old stack of extra, blank, blue cards, with the SM's signature giving him permission to start. There wasn't any guidance there. The current SM talks with the boys and sometimes pushes them toward a particular individual as a counselor. I don't think he keeps track in any formal way, but he is more on top of the situation than was previously the case. He has also been known to contact a counselor from time to time (well at least me, anyway) to give a heads up about a particular boy's situation and needs. I know that as a counselor I have appreciated knowing the SM and I were able to communicate like that.

 

(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[evmori 11]

The Scoutmaster assigns the MB counselor just like it states in the SM and Boy Scout handbook.

[Eagle732 27]

"The Scoutmaster assigns the MB counselor just like it states in the SM and Boy Scout handbook."

 

What the SM Handbook says is that "The Scout obtains from his Scoutmaster a signed merit badge application and the name of a qualified counselor for that merit badge." The key word is "obtains", the requirement doesn't say the MBC is assigned by the SM. If the Scout "obtains" several names from the SM and choses the one he wants to work with why is this a problem?

 

[Hal_Crawford 15]

There isn't a problem with that. The problem comes when the scout finds the counselor on his own without consulting the SM, works on the merit badge and the first time the SM hears about it is when the scout presents the SM with a completed blue card. At this point the SM can either accept it or tell the scout that it is invalid because he didn't follow procedure. To make matters worse it turns out that the counselor is not registered as a counselor or not approved for that badge. At this point you have a disappointed scout, angry parents ("you're just throwing roadblocks in front of our darling boy. How will he make Eagle by 14 if you keep doing things like this to him") and an off the rails MBC who promises not to do it again but will.

 

The best thing that an SM can do is be firm and consistent in the message, "do not start work on a merit badge until you have a blue card with the counselor's name and my signature.

 

There is nothing wrong with this scene.

 

Scout: Mr. Adler, I want to work on Citizenship in the Nation

SM: That's great. There are three counselors I know, Mr. Green, Colonel Mustard and Miss Scarlet, do you have a preference.

Scout: Mr. Green is Billy Green's dad. I think I would like to work with him.

SM: Mr. Green it is, here's your blue card with Mr. Greens phone number on it.

 

or this scene

 

Scout: Mr. Adler, I want to work with Col. Mustard on Citizenship in the World. Can I get a blue card?

SM: Sure, he's on the list of approved counselor's list.

 

The SM also has every right to say, "You've already done two badges with him, I think you really need to work with a different counselor for this one. How about Mrs. White?

 

Scout: I've heard she is hard.

SM: She really knows the subject so you can learn a lot from her. The requirements are the same no matter what counselor you work with.

Scout: All right. How do I get in touch with her?

SM: I'll put her number on the blue card.

 

The point is that the SM needs to be in the loop and should guide the scout to the counselors that will best serve the scouts growth. Insisting that all merit badges be started with a signed blue card with the counselor's name on it is the best way to control this. Giving the card without the counselor's name is like handing out a blank check. Not a good idea.

 

Hal

[Lisabob 13]

"Giving the card without the counselor's name is like handing out a blank check. Not a good idea."

 

Totally agree. Using the example of the former SM from my son's troop who used to hand out signed blue cards with no MB and no counselor name on them - if a boy were unethical he could take the card that was intended for, say, the fingerprinting MB and go do the personal management MB with it instead. Now why would this be a problem, you wonder?

 

Well we had a boy do exactly this at camp one summer. He took a card (blank except for the SM sig.) meant for one badge and cajoled a summer camp MBC/teenage staffer into just signing off on the personal mgmt badge as if the boy had actually done that badge. Of course he had not done any work on the personal mgmt badge - it was a scam. But the blue card had both the "counselor's" and the SM's signature on it so it was valid! Right? (Can't tell you what a furor this caused.)

 

A more engaged SM could and would have avoided this entirely because he'd have insisted that both the name of the badge and the counselor's name be on the blue card before signing it. In the summer camp situation, he would, at the very least, have had a record to show that he approved a blue card for badge A, and not for badge B.

 

(By the way my son has a whole pile of blank blue cards with this former SM's signature on them. He could, in theory, never ask the current SM for a blue card again and still complete all of his Eagle-required badges. Upon questioning from the current SM: "When did you talk to me about starting badge X?" if he were untruthful, my son could simply reply "Oh I started that 5 years ago back when Mr. Smith was SM" and there would be no way for either the current, or former, SM to know if that was the case or not. So much for meaningful adult association in the process.)

 

 

[Eagle732 27]

The only cards I sign without a MBC name on them are the ones for summer camp. I think I'll start putting a note on them so I know they are intended for summer camp only. I agree with Hal's theory, it allows choice with guidance.

[Hal_Crawford 15]

Lisa is right that the Blue Card should also have the name of he Merit Badge on it. Don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier.

Hal

[evmori 11]

If the Scout "obtains" several names from the SM and choses the one he wants to work with why is this a problem?

 

If ya want to start parsing participles the Scout only obtains one name per the SM handbook not several.

[Gunny2862 11]

Um unless I'm confused again and I could be... at least that's the way I read the cards different sides.

http://www.scoutway.net/scoutforms/form-bluecards.pdf

 

There is a spot for the SM to sign that named Scout is ready and meets prerequisites to begin work on X Merit Badge on one side, AND a separate spot for SM to accept that the MBC and the Scout did complete the MB on the other. Am I wrong again?

 

If fraud is involved all the SM has to do is not sign the second time and somehow avoid burning in the flames of the bonfire the parents will put him in.

[ghermanno 11]

Gunny,

 

That is not the case.

 

Think of it like a range card. You go to the range and shoot Expert, your buddy shoots Marksman. You check your records later and they say you shot Marksman. You have the card to prove you did shoot Expert. Your XO/CO does not have the right to disqualify you if the rangemaster is certified (approved by command). This card is the same.

 

The signature for the SM(Unit leader), on that side of the card, is for the boys record to show he turned in the completed card and the MBC is registered for that MB. The first part is for unit records, the second 9with signature) is for the boy, and the third part is for the MBC. All for record keeping purposes.

 

That is why it is important to have ALL your MBCs registered with Council as MBCs, to keep a list of MBCs, and verify your list with Council periodically. The Council can say NO to people applying for MBCs, rare put possible and they can remove MBCs from the list.

 

I have heard a lot of opinions about District/Council not keeping records and Units keeping their own but if people do not try to make the system work then the system will stay broke.

 

My $0.02.

 

YiS,

 

Rick