Eagle Requirement: Be active in your troop and patrol

[samzpop]

The first Eagle Scout rank requirement is to be active in your troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout.

 

I have been active in my son's troop for almost two years, and recently became the scoutmaster. There are two or three scouts who are between 16 and 18 years old who are Life scouts and are asking about starting Eagle projects. I only know these scouts from their names on the roster - I have never seen them participate in Troop meetings or activities. I would expect that they were active before I became involved in the Troop, or they would not have progressed to become Life scouts, but they have clearly not been involved during the past two years.

 

As an Eagle scout myself, it feels like it cheapens the distinction of becoming an Eagle scout when we rubber-stamp an application from a scout who has not recently been active.

 

Is there a policy about when it is appropriate to refuse to award the rank of Eagle to a scout who is not active?

 

 

[Liz]

Why not point the requirement out to the boys who are requesting information, and remind them that they need to fulfill it?

 

Also, maybe they were active for 6 months after becoming Life Scout, but just aren't any longer, in which case you probably don't have much to say about it -- but you can still encourage them to come and share some of their experience with the younger scouts.

 

Rather than looking for excuses to turn them away, why not look for excuses to get them back involved?

 

-Liz

[AlFansome]

 

Here's the info from scouting.org at http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/RankAdvanceFAQ.aspx

 

 

Question: For the Star, Life, and Eagle Scout ranks, how is "Be active in your troop and patrol" defined?

 

Answer: A Scout is considered to be active in his unit if:

 

He is registered in his unit (registration fees are current).

 

He has not been dismissed from his unit for disciplinary reasons.

 

He is engaged by his unit leadership on a regular basis (Scoutmaster conference, informs the Scout of upcoming unit activities, through personal contact, and so on).

 

The unit leaders are responsible for maintaining contact with the Scout on a regular basis. The Scout is not required to attend any certain percentage of activities or outings. However, unit leaders must ensure that he is fulfilling the obligations of his assigned leadership position. If he is not, then they should remove the Scout from that position.

 

[scoutldr]

If they don't show up, why are they still on the roster? As a fellow Eagle ('70) I understand and agree. But National has defined it for us...if you reregister them, they are "Active".

[John-in-KC]

Samzpop,

 

Welcome to the Forums.

 

First, the six month requirement may be met at any point in their cycle. If the Scout made Life at 14, got his POR and membership time by 15, and then was invisible to the Troop for a couple years, in the eyes of Scouting, he has met the qualification.

 

AlFansome has quoted what is both on the BSA website and Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures #33088.

 

Allow me to be blunt: Your predecessor and your Committee Chairman allowed ghosts to occupy the seats of your Troop meetings and campouts. You're now stuck as a gatekeeper without much of a gate to use. You can build the fences and the gates for the future, but for these young men, you may find yourself having to support them, no matter how frustrating for you.

 

Have a quiet talk with your friendly Unit Commissioner, District Membership Chair, and District Advancement Chair. Talk to other Scoutmasters. Ask how they manage youth who effectively drop out, and how they work with youth who decide to return. (Hint: If a youth doesn't pay the unit fees at recharter time, have your recharter person drop him. You're the one who signs the charter app, not your CC).

 

After that talk, have a quiet talk with your Committee Chair and your COR. Propose how you will manage ghost youth ... but then you have to be fair and consistent in implementing it.

 

Have I answered your question?

[samzpop]

Thank you for your responses.

 

BSA provides a clear definition of what it means to be "active". While the BSA definition is a very inclusive definition (as it should be) and places the responsibility on unit leaders to keep scouts engaged, the reality is that there is tremendous competition for the attention of 16 and 17 year old scouts. One of the things I like about Scouting is the way you ask a question and you get a challenge!!

 

Your responses and this direction is helpful in addressing this issue. Thanks again for your responses.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Look at their needs and interests. Maybe it's more appropriate that your Chartered Partner establish a Venturing Crew, to support them. You might find they re-engage if they're being challenged in a field that matters to them.

 

Although Beavah disagrees with the policy , Scout advancement can continue in the context of a Venturing Crew. They can earn Eagle there.

 

 

[SSScout]

Yep, "active" is 'officially' defined and 'personally' defined. But Eagle candidates need to be reminded that {first) they've been promising to be 'trustworthy' and 'loyal' for some time. One thing to try is the SM conference and ask how the ESC has been 'loyal' to the Troop, and how has he been 'active'. Let him define it.

(second), the ESC should be reminded that if and when they meet all the OTHER requirements of the Eagle award, they will never stop being an Eagle. It ain't temporary like Tenderfoot.

Encouragement and expectation.

[ASM915]

samzpop,

Sit down with your troops advancement person and see if the scouts in question have met all the other requirements prior to your arrival. If so, your unfortunately obligated to continue them along the path to Eagle.

It is unfortunate that National now allows the Lifes' to sit back on their duffs and do nothing after six months of activity, if that is what they want to do, unlike when we earned our Eagles back in the 70's (76). Isn't it strange that if we make a call to ask them where they have been, that they are considered active, even though they are not the ones initiating contact. Maybe the requirement should read:

"shall be actively involved in your troop for the six month period immediately prior to starting your Eagle Project".

[John-in-KC]

SSScout,

 

Remember the requirement is to have a Scoutmaster conference, not pass it. The decision point is the EBOR, which must be unanimous, and if not so, must give the Scout his options for recourse.

 

If a Troop is having a drain of 15-17 year olds, it's time for adults to ask "Are we delivering the promise to this end of the program?" There are retention tools, use them.

[Beavah]

Although Beavah disagrees with the policy...

 

Nah. I agree with da real policy of the BSA, as written in da Rules & Regulations which we all agreed to follow when we signed our applications, eh?

 

An active youth member is one who, with the approval of a

parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates

himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly; fulfills a member's

obligation to the unit: subscribes to the Scout Oath or the code of his

or her respective program; and participates in an appropriate program

based on a member's age, as promulgated from time to time by the Boy

Scouts of America.- Boy Scouts of America Rules & Regulations, Article VII

 

The confusion comes when one particular program office gets tired of dealin' with da inevitable complaints and threats from attack helicopter parents (and yah, gets tired of the occasional inanity of self-appointed adult gatekeepers), and promulgates poorly worded program documents. The policy we all agreed to uphold is da one in bold above, eh?

 

Aside from that, samzpop, I agree with da rest of the crowd. Yes, of course you're right, it shouldn't sit well to give Eagle Scout to a lad who isn't active. Easiest way to avoid that is to drop boys who aren't active at recharter time. If they come back later, they can have a SM conference and apply again, and yeh can choose to accept 'em back or not. Yeh can even have 'em participate as a guest who is interested in joining for a bit until yeh see what the lad's about and approve the application.

 

Given your current situation, I reckon if nobody has signed their books for "active" or for POR, well, then, they're startin' at zero for you, eh? Make 'em work for it. If they do have those requirements signed, then when yeh meet with 'em, I'd have the conversation about how a scout is Loyal, Helpful, etc. and tell 'em that you need them to be truly active in da troop now before you can honestly sign their project workbook (can't say a lad is ready to do a project if you don't know him) or their Eagle Application (can't say a lad is qualified for Eagle if yeh don't know him either).

 

Yah, there are ways for the boys to request a review without a SM's recommendation, but that's harder and kinda sketchy in terms of whether or not a board will respond positively in such a circumstance. Easier for them to learn da lesson of character and do what you ask.

 

Now, all that havin' been said, stop and think for a moment. Has your troop been real lax about this up until now? I think yeh have to make changes in a way that gets communicated to the lads in advance, eh? It's really not fair to change da rules on 'em late in the game. So if these kids have seen others do Eagle without being active, and nobody sat down with 'em before this and laid out different expectations, then yeh should be lenient. Just make sure you lay down different expectations for the younger lads who will be coming through in the followin' years.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Beavah]

Oops, Yah! Mrs. Beavah's yellin' at me for not puttin' da stuffing away after I raided it!

 

Missed da point of J-in-KC's comment because Mrs. Beavah can be quite loud . Joinin' a crew or ship can be a fine thing, eh? But encourage the lad to work on Silver or Ranger or Quartermaster or another appropriate Venturing award! More interestin' for him, and more age-appropriate.

 

B

 

[SSScout]

Any teacher (of any subject) has as a goal the imparting of that skill or knowledge that is their specialty. The teacher has to ask : is their success (or failure) a function of their teaching ability and effort or of the student's innate talent (or lack) for the subject.

Then too, if the teacher passes the student without the 'officially' defined testing of the knowledge or skill, then who has failed? The student or the teacher?

I say that often our regrets at being forced by regs to "pass" the ESC comes from not being sufficiently proactive in the years before. Dropping from the roles inactive 'active' Scouts, calling Scouts we haven't seen for awhile to inquire after their desires, SM minutes about activity and loyalty and such, SM conferences (or even hallway encounters) that are more than sign-offs. All ,and more, are necessary for any Scoutleader to feel easy in this requirement.

 

[Eagle732]

"An active youth member is one who, with the approval of a

parent or guardian if necessary, becomes a member of a unit; obligates

himself or herself to attend the meetings regularly; fulfills a member's

obligation to the unit: subscribes to the Scout Oath or the code of his

or her respective program; and participates in an appropriate program

based on a member's age, as promulgated from time to time by the Boy

Scouts of America.- Boy Scouts of America Rules & Regulations, Article VII"

 

Where can I get a copy of these rules?

[ljnrsu]

Eagle732 your council office should have a copy of BSA Rules and Regulations that you can read. You could also ask them if they could make you a copy of that page.