Eagle309 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Our Troop (of which I am SM) is hopefully about to see its first Eagle Scout. However, we (both myself and the committee) made the mistake of granting the Scout in question his Star rank (both SMC and BOR) one day short of the 4 months tenure required at First Class. He was at Star the full 6 months before receiving Life and has been at Life for over 23 months now. The Council caught this discrepency when reviewing the application before sending it on to the District Advancement Committee to schedule an Eagle BOR. They requested from me (the SM) a letter stating that the dates were correct and that the Troop had made the mistake of granting Star a day too early. They said that is all that could be done and we would just have to see what happens. I composed a letter to be signed by myself and the CC at the time in question stating that it was a Troop error. I added that during all this time, the Scout has been successfully serving in a qualifying POR and that his Scout Spirit has not been brought into question. What is likely to happen? I hate to see this Scout's Eagle rank jeopordized by an error that only a small part in making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Being a reasonable person who regularly sits on Eagle BOR, I would read your explanation, and schedule the EBOR. No scout should be penalized for the honest errors of adults...especially over 1 day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I agree 100% with scoutldr. The boy should not even be questioned about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I concur. An oversight of 1 day that was made 2 years ago should not be made an issue for the boy. If everything else is in order, and he passes the BOR, the subject should be dismissed. But it should always be remembered so as it never happens again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank17 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Talk to your District Advancement Chair about the situation. What you are talking about is a paperwork / recording error, and not a deficiency on the scout's part. They may need to re-enter dates of rank completion in the council computer so it does not throw a RAM chip fit when it calculates he is one day short of 4 months for Star. It it obvious (from his 23 months of Life tenure) that he has enough accumulated time to qualify. BTW, the 4 months tenure that the handbook requires is a little inexact. Depending on the year (leap or not), and number of days in each of the months, 4 months can range from 120 to 123 days total (try it in Excel). I would bet he has already met the minimum for this. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 "They may need to re-enter dates of rank completion ..." Falsify the records? A good question for the board of review. "Son, there's a problem with the dates and we're thinking about 'adjusting' them. Do you think we should do that, or what should we do?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank17 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 It is not falsifying records to correct the mistake that was made. The scout completed his service and the requirements; his BOR was just conducted too early. Just because it was caught late does not mean something was done falsely. It simply means that computers are better counters than humans. If you consider this falsifying records, I guess that means the rest of us posters cannot correct spelling or punctuation in our posts without "falsyfying" our messages. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 There is no falsification here! Now if when 1st questioned about it, the SM or other unit adult said "We must have put in the wrong date" then you have falsification! But this unit is handling this correctly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcnphkr Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 BTW, the 4 months tenure that the handbook requires is a little inexact. Depending on the year (leap or not), and number of days in each of the months, 4 months can range from 120 to 123 days total (try it in Excel). I would bet he has already met the minimum for this. Our council's Eagle Application instructions says: "It is BSA practice to assume that all months have 30 days for calculating rank advancement and leadership requirements." That may be true, the Advancement Guide does not say. I doubt this will be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FScouter Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Ahem! The OP said "... one day short of the 4 months tenure required..." That doesn't sound like a mistake. The boy was short, and it is now being suggested that that the dates be "adjusted" to fool the computer (and others?) that the boy did indeed complete a full 4 months when in fact he did not. The ethical thing to do is as Eagle309 has done, explain the fact that the boy is one day short, and let the council advancement committee make a ruling. I'm failing to understand how intentionally reporting a different date for the purpose of fooling others that the boy has compeleted a full four months when in fact he has not, is "ethical". Refer to our Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 Hmmmm . . . isn't it often put forth on this forum that advancement, once the forms are signed, is a fait accompli? If so, can you make the kid go back and re-earn Star and Life? What happens to his project? Of course, the argument could be made that the Scout should have known that he was a day shy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASM915 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 309, We just went over this last night at our District Roundtable. The DAC held his "Soon To Be Eagle" talk for the Star and above scouts. If today, November 13th, 2008 is your scouts 18th birthday, your scout had to be First Class on or before July 13th, 2007. If he became First Class on July 14, 2007, he looses out by one day, and stays Life. If the committee were to then changed the date to make things fit, then there would be falsification of records. Since your scout was Life for 23 months, he has the required time needed for all ranks and PORs regardless of dates. There should not be a problem. Yes the date may need to be switched by one day to keep the computers for glitching, and a letter added to the file to why it was switched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle92 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 This is definately a question for the DAC and/or council AC. What will more than likely happen is that they will decide FOR the youth,especially if he has lots of supporting letters explaining why this happend and how the youth is a good example, etc, and they will decide to change it in the system at the council level. let's face it mistakes happen, and honestly it should have been caught earlier, liek when his STAR paperwork was turned in originally, it should have been kicked back then. So if you think about it, all parties: Scout, unit, and Council made an error. We had something similar happen to a Scout. He didn't have his BOR early, but council was missing his Star and Life paperowrk. While he had his book, some of the items only had month and year, not the exact date as the computer requires. Long story short, council had to edit the records twice to make everything work withthe computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoutldr Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I can see it now: SM: Johnny, come in here and lets do your Board of Review Johnny: Sorry, Mr. SM, but I'm one day short of the tenure requirement and it just wouldn't be right! I'll have to come back next month. Yeah, right. The SM/Committee screwed up 2 years ago...they owned up to it, so what's the problem? Move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Winger Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 So I guess the idea of an honoable Scout is foreign to you. Why would the BOR have to wait a month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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