Physical Fitness

[GaHillBilly 10]

Hi All;

 

In replies to my previous post, it was pointed out that fit and thin Boy Scouts may not be so common. My experience is too limited to let me confirm that, but it is true that over 1/2 the boys in my son's troop are over weight, and one is quite obese.

 

This troop is only a year old, but already several of the boys are ducking some trips and activities because of their fitness level. The SM and ASM don't seem too concerned, but it's not hard to see where that path leads for these boys. The SM is already considering taking the troop to the adventure camp sponsored by the 5th Ranger Training Battalion 2 years from now. If some of the boys are going to be ready, it will probably take two years to get them ready.

 

Has anyone seen an effective effort to improve fitness in a group of seriously unfit boys? What did it involve?

 

Also, has the fitness modification requirement ever been invoked for boys that are simply too overweight to do a single push-up or pull-up? The SM is reluctant, but my thinking is that it's better to get them started, and work from there, than to put up a wall that shuts them out at the starting line.

 

GaHillBilly

 

 

[FScouter 24]

Pray, what is a "fitness modification requirement"? Would that be something we can invoke when we discover an error in the requirements?

[John-in-KC 311]

FScouter,

 

If he's talking to the special needs, as defined by BSA Requirements #33215, then he needs to go back and re-read them, to wit:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/earlyalt.html

 

Boldface denotes policy:

 

A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank because he is physically or mentally disabled may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met:

 

The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature.

 

Note the word permanent.

 

A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability.

 

The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternate requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements.

 

The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements.

 

The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements.

 

When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician.

 

The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources.

 

The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader.

 

 

As far as taking them to Fortress Benning, is this a decision of the SM or the PLC? If the SM, we need to talk about why the youth, in the form of the PLC, are not making program decisions under the mentorship of the Scoutmaster.

 

As far as fitness goes, let's work on things that can be FUN. Has anyone thought about the level of effort for Cycling Merit Badge? That will take the boys some work to do!

 

"Physiclly strong" does not mean world class athletes out of 11 year olds. It means using the Outdoors Method of Scouting to give them opportunities for lifelong physical fitness, be they on the HS football team, in the marching band, or hiking the backwoods of Appalachia.

 

Eat the elephant one bite at a time. Let's get the kids through the fitness requirements for Tenderfoot and for 2d/1st Class swimming, then we can worry about other things.

 

BTW, welcome to our campfire, GaHillBilly.

 

 

[Beavah 205]

Yah, GAHillBilly, yeh can probably find a recent thread about pullups around here.

 

Some troops will substitute a "flexed arm hang" (start at the top of the pullup position and hang for as long as possible). I've seen folks use a modified pushup (from the knees rather than toes) for really "big" kids too.

 

Personally I think the intent is to do as you say, and get kids goin' for the TF requirement, and then work with 'em more on Personal Fitness MB. I think for your truly overweight guys, yeh probably just want to get 'em moving a lot doin' fun stuff - runnin' about and bikin' and hikin' until their weight comes down a bit.

 

Way to think about how to help the lads!

 

Beavah

 

[rangersteve 10]

I think the Army's Ranger program is fairly competent in whipping youngsters into "reasonably" good shape. (insert sarcasm here) As a product of said program I can attest to the fitness levels achieved.

That being said I would strongly advise you have the boys develop a realistic plan, utilizing all available time, to condition all the boys planning on attending. Backpack Backpack Backpack

[GaHillBilly 10]

To respond to a variety of remarks:

 

+ As far as being welcome, thanks.

 

+ I had not read the conditions for the alternate requirements; I don't know if I'd overlooked them or never seen them. I should have checked. It would seem that obesity would not be a covered condition.

 

+ The destination would be NOT Fort Benning, but Camp Merrill.

-- The camp is a one week BOY SCOUT high adventure camp, not a Ranger camp, even though Ranger instructors lead parts of it, and even though it is based at Camp Merrill.

-- Also, it's not an SM decision, it's a only a possibility . . . BUT

-- My own feeling is that it's possibility that could give some of the kids a goal to work toward, and that they NEED a goal like that. If they choose a different ACTUAL destination 2 years from now, such as Philmont or whatever, that's fine.

-- This is a NEW troop with ZERO experienced youth leaders. The new SPL is a 13 year old Tenderfoot with no prior leadership experience. Some older boys, who joined the troop when it was first formed 9 months ago, are now inactive. My son, new to Scouting, is the only other Tenderfoot. The rest of the boys are 10 or 11 years old, fresh up from Cub Scouts. It's my understanding that it is normal for such a troop to have greater direction by the SM, than would a mature troop, with functioning and experienced boys in the the SPL, Guide, and PL positions.

 

+ Currently a number of the kids can NOT get through "the fitness requirements for Tenderfoot and for 2d/1st Class swimming", without some accomodation and help. I'm just trying to figure out how to help make that happen, and was seeking advice toward that end. The only other option is simply to accept that they'll drop out in a year or so.

 

+ My concern it not to make it easy on the boys but to find a ladder that they can, and will, climb. Most adults find it extremely difficult to shed 75+ lbs. I don't understand why anyone would think that it's easier for a 12 year old boy, who doesn't control the menu at home, and whose parents are also overweight.

 

+ The LAST thing I want to to create another easy-up troop filled with boys with lots of rank and few actual skills. The SM is committed to building a boy led troop, with honestly achieved ranks and MBs. But he's just made the move from Cub Scouts himself. So pretty much everyone in the troop is on the steep part of the learning curve.

 

+ There are two boys in the troop for whom backpacking is a current possibility, my son and the new SPL. The former SPL is recovering from a variety of ailments, including recent gall bladder surgery. ALL the rest are too small, too heavy or both. Backpacking will only become an option for most of these boys only AFTER they've experienced significant fitness improvement.

 

+ And before some one asks, I should say that, as of a few weeks ago, my wife and I are the only registered MB counselors for the troop, and that I've been asked to be an ASM, focusing on training. So I don't think I'm stepping out of line by looking for answers to these questions.

 

GaHillBilly

[Beavah 205]

Yah, HillBilly, good job takin' on buildin' up a new troop, and havin' a commitment to doin' it the right way.

 

Your fitness challenges are certainly real ones. We've had it happen 'round here occasionally to existing troops, getting a whole mess of "modern american youth" cross over at once. It's tough for an active program to deal with sometimes.

 

I think yeh gotta face the fact that one meetin' a week, one outing a month ain't really going to impact these kids' fitness. That's "occasional" exercise, not "regular". Now, yeh might say that the kids get "homework" to work on on their own, but let's be honest, eh? 10 and 11-year-old out of shape lads aren't likely to be self motivated. They need companions to get 'em up, and lots of positive encouragement to keep 'em goin'.

 

So, if you're really committed to this, I'd suggest:

 

1) Try to partner with a youth sports/fitness program that meets more regularly - at least a few times a week. Best if it's achievement-oriented, not competition oriented. Could be "very recreational" soccer, aerobic kickboxing/martial arts with a lot of encouragement, whatever. Yeh gotta get the guys to sign up and participate as a group. Sometimes local school rec programs or community colleges offer good options.

 

2) Yah, or yeh can try to do it yourself. It's only a couple o' extra hours per week . Hold 3 meetings per week. Do scoutin' stuff - hiking, biking, scout games, swimmin', paddling - but all active, and all with a push toward fitness.

 

Given what you describe, rather than tryin' a rapid run at T-2-1 only to get "stuck", consider makin' up a few "progress" awards of your own that become a big thing in your troop. Nuthin' says that ranks and MB's are the only kind of "advancement" we can do in Scoutin'. We have honors "advancement" programs (OA - ordeal, brotherhood, vigil), Mic-O-Say with its levels, etc. No reason why yeh can't make up your own "fitness advancement" or "fractional tenderfoot awards" and give 'em out at Courts of Honor.

 

Yeh can also do a summer camp shot at one of the "fat camps". No reason summer camp has to be (just) at a BSA camp. Take some BSA folks to do a few MBs and work on rank, then use the camp resources to help with fitness and lifestyle issues. Most of 'em would be happy to work with you.

 

I gotta tell you, it's really tough to keep these kids in da program. It takes a lot of effort. If a boy does fade on yeh, though, keep the door open and check back in... usually, biology gives 'em a boost around age 13 or so. You might get 'em to come back then.

 

Beavah

 

[ScoutNut 147]

"my wife and I are the only registered MB counselors for the troop"

 

Please keep in mind that while you and your wife might be the only adults in your Troop who are registered MB Counselors, that does NOT mean that you are the only 2 MBC's AVAILABLE to the Troop.

 

It sounds like you both registered as Troop only. There are many, many other MBC's in your District and Council who are available to anyone who needs them.

 

Your Council (and your SM) should have a list of all available Merit Badge Counselors.

 

As to the rest, no one here thinks you are out of line with your questions. I think it is great that you are there to help the boys. I also think that you, with your background, have a particular focus on fitness. That is fine, but remember there is much more involved with being a Scout. Don't loose sight of the rest of the picture.

 

Have you taken any training yet? You might ask some of your questions of your District Training Team members. Also, if you attend your District Roundtable you can get ideas from Scouters in other local Troops and get to know some of the local District staff (which is a good idea for any new unit).

[Lisabob 13]

Hi there GA, and welcome (again). I think you've identified some really important issues that lots of troops face these days. And the fact that yours is a very new/young troop does make it a bit more of a challenge, if only because you've got a lot of other, unrelated issues to deal with too.

 

On another thread recently someone brought up the presidential challenge fitness program. One thing I like about it is that it includes different levels of activity depending on how fit a person is to begin with, so it might not seem as daunting to the (until now) couch potato types. This might be something the boys (families?) in your son's troop would be willing to try out, or if nothing else, it might be a source of ideas and information for you as you try to encourage a little bit more healthy lifestyle for these guys.

 

Here's a link to the President's Challenge program, a non-scouting national effort to improve fitness:

http://www.presidentschallenge.org/

 

And here's the BSA "To Be Physically Fit" program. It matches up rather well with the concerns you've voiced here. Note the links (in grey) at the bottom of the page, for the specific requirements.

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/19-327/index.html

 

Either of these programs could be something you work on together as a troop, though they require additional activity at home too. If your boys agree to work on them together, then even just meeting once a week and charting progress might be enough for SOME of the boys to get motivated to keep working on their own during the rest of the week.

 

If you do pursue this, make sure those skinny kids recognize that they, too, can improve their fitness - it isn't just about weight. The older boys in my son's troop did a high adventure sea kayaking trek this summer, and one of the boys who had the hardest time was the stick-thin kid with little upper body strength.

 

As I suspect you know though, all of this has to be done from a perspective of fun/preparation for more fun, and not "you're fat!"

Boys don't join (or stay with) boy scouts to be criticized, they join for fun and adventure. So do be careful about how you package this, if you choose to introduce these programs to the guys.

[Kudu 186]

GaHillBilly writes:

 

"Currently a number of the kids can NOT get through 'the fitness requirements for Tenderfoot and for 2d/1st Class swimming', without some accommodation and help. I'm just trying to figure out how to help make that happen, and was seeking advice toward that end."

 

OK, some advice toward that end:

 

* Fat kids float better than skinny kids.

 

* The side stroke is good for kids who don't like to put their face underwater.

 

* Kids who hate the water when they are 11 can change as they get older. In the meantime plan fun, fast-moving games in the water that don't require swimming.

 

* The Tenderfoot physical fitness requirement was invented by lazy fat adults who removed the actual fitness-building advancement requirements from the BSA, such as backpacking requirements of increasing difficulty for every rank. It is a lot easier for an adult to stand next to a chinning bar or a swimming pool than it is to tag along on a Camping Merit Badge hike for 1.5 miles with a pack on his back! The moral is that Advancement is deeply flawed, so do not push EVERY Scout to do requirements that they don't like. You can always pick outdoor Merit Badges instead. Advancement is only one of the so-called "Eight" Methods.

 

* The recent pull-ups thread offers a few suggestions for how to "parse" the words in the requirements to the Scouts' advantage, for instance to define "show improvement in the activities" as over-all improvement in the activities rather than improvement in each and every specific exercise, see:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=162626

 

GaHillBilly continues:

 

"The only other option is simply to accept that they'll drop out in a year or so. "

 

Nah, it is NOT the only other option!

 

Scouting was invented by a man named Baden-Powell who was an outspoken advocate of EVERY boy doing daily calisthenics and learning how to swim, BUT he did NOT require swimming and push-ups, pull-ups, etc. to become a First Class Scout.

 

If you develop a fun outdoor program, then the kind of boys who are attracted to real Scouting will stay on to do the fun things without being concerned about missing out on all of the BSA Advancement clutter. Think of happy they will be hiking or cycling off to fish while everyone else is stuck sitting in boring Environmental Science, Citizenship, and "Personal Management" classes :-)

 

GaHillBilly continues:

 

"There are two boys in the troop for whom backpacking is a current possibility, my son and the new SPL. The former SPL is recovering from a variety of ailments, including recent gall bladder surgery. ALL the rest are too small, too heavy or both. Backpacking will only become an option for most of these boys only AFTER they've experienced significant fitness improvement."

 

Nah, that is NOT true.

 

* Start with the two boys for whom backpacking is a current possibility. Take them out and develop their backpacking skills! They are your future leaders. Count your blessings: It is easy to fit 2 boys, 2 adults, and four backpacks into a single car.

 

* If you don't know how to backpack, ask about qualified volunteers at BSA Roundtables, Commissioner meetings, outdoor stores, and outdoor clubs. Many adults can't stand the stupid monthly car camping weekends, but will jump at a chance to go backpacking.

 

* No boy is too small or too fat to go backpacking if you are strict enough about banning everyone (including clueless adults) from bringing unnecessary gear. Dump everyone's gear out on tables or the floor, and teach your two backpacking Scouts to go through each pack with a checklist. Pack the heavy, unnecessary gear into a clear lawn bag to return home (along with a list of still-needed gear) and then lock the packs up until you leave. Adults and bigger Scouts can take some of their smaller Scout's group gear.

 

* Backpacking is NOT about distance. Backpacking is about self-sufficiency. For instance, our October trip is a climb up Cascade Mountain and Porter Mountain in the Adirondacks. We will backpack only half a mile to a stream, establish basecamp there, and then hike up the mountains the next morning with just our "10 Essentials".

 

* NEVER use the word "BACKPACKING" around children! Never, ever, ever!

 

* A wilderness trek over flat land might be called a "Wilderness Trek" or B-P's term "Journey." Mountain climbing can be called "Mountain Climbing." Describe the trek NOT by lugging weight on your back ("backpacking"), but by an attractive destination such as a wading pool at the bottom of a waterfall, a remote fishing hole, or a scary night at a haunted lean-to.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[AnneinMpls 10]

You've gotten some good suggestions already. Just want to make sure we don't overlook the importance of PLAY. The running around-acting like a kid-hanging off a tree-playing tag-wrestling for the ball-tackling the grownups kinda of play that kids just never get enough of. Talk to your PLC about adding 15 minutes at the start of the meeting to "blow off steam". Take a look at the current thread we had going on playing tag. Take a good look at your meeting space and decide whether it fosters active play - do you have outdoor space, trees to climb, etc?

Blue skies!

Anne in Mpls

[Gonzo1 10]

John in KC,

Camp Frank Merrill is home to the 75th Ranger Regiment near Dahlonega, GA.

 

GaHillBilly,

Welcome,

I'd suggest the cycling, hiking, age appropriate strenuous activity like hikes and service projects at Elachee Nature Center in Gainesville, GA. or any of the other trails in the Chattahoochee National Forest.

 

I wouldn't worry about the Ranger Camp, it's part of Camp Rainey Mountain's summer program, just get them out hiking now.

 

The boys' interest may or may not be there, but the activity will benefit everyone.

 

 

[Aquila 10]

Kudu is right. No boy is too obese for hiking. We've been doing the badge (10 milers!). Well, the boys have been doing it; I just tag along to carry the cathole shovel. One of the boys (who is 11) is about 4'10" and close to 200 lbs. As long as the pace is "the slowest boy on the hike" and we stop for plenty of water breaks, he does fine. It's actually the skinny-winny who usually has the problem. They have a great time; the adults hang back and are there just for safety; the boys don't even realize they're working. When the fatter kids (it's a description, not a judgement) seem like they're lagging, an adult will carry their pack for awhile. Been a lot of fun. We're just about ready for the 20.

[GaHillBilly 10]

Thanks, all.

 

This thread has given me a lot to think about. Even some of the conclusions or comments I disagree with, have still helped me think through the situation here. Hopefully, all this will end up benefiting the boys.

 

A couple of final notes:

 

+ In its current issue, US News & WR has a series of articles I found helpful. Maybe some of you will, too. Here's the link to the central article:

http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/2007/08/31/how-to-win-the-weight-battle.html

 

 

Also, some corrections:

 

Camp Merrill IS near Dahlonega, but it is NOT "home to the 75th Ranger Regiment". As you can see here,

http://www.soc.mil/75thrr/75th_home.htm ,

the 75th RR is based as follows

* lst Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Hunter Army Airfield, Ga.

* 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Lewis, Wash.

* 3rd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Benning, Ga.

 

All Rangers are "headquartered" at Fort Benning, regardless of where they are stationed. (See link above).

 

Camp Merrill is 'home' (such as it is) to the 5th Ranger Training Battalion. The second stage of Ranger School is conducted at, and around, Camp Merrill (see https://www.infantry.army.mil/rtb/rtbmain.asp). But not all members of

the 75th RR have completed "Ranger School"; my impression is that only a minority have. As I understand it, anyone who is a current member of the 75th is considered a "Ranger" -- even if they have not complete the "Ranger School". On the other hand, infantry officers and non-coms in other Army units may (must?) wear the Ranger tab by virtue of having completed the school. Some Marines also have completed the school, but I don't know if they can wear the tab. I assume, but didn't check, that the Marine instructors on TDY at Camp Merrill do wear the tab.

 

Finally, I wouldn't know whether someone in the local council considers that the Ranger Scout camp is part of "Camp Rainey Mountain's summer program". What I do know is that the application process is entirely separate of the Camp Rainey application, has a separate fee, lasts 6 days, and takes place either at Camp Merrill proper, or at Yonah Mountain. We are not in that council, and heard about it through military contacts, rather than through the BSA.

 

GaHillBilly

[Gonzo1 10]

GaHillBilly,

Thanks for the correction. I retired as a Captain in the Medical Service Corps officer and didn't have much to do with Rangers. We had a Ranger in one of my Reserve units, he had been to Merrill.

 

Ask the summer camp coordinator in your council about the Ranger program. NE GA council has a week at the Ranger camp at Merrill, none of our scouts have done it.

 

Gonzo1