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MB's -- Comprehension or Completion


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I see a big problem only if what I'm reading is interpreted correctly. If not, I'll issue the proverbial Rosanne Rosanna Dana response - never mind.

 

The following statement "I'm talking about items the Scout has prepared and have brought to me to present to ANY MB counselor for the first time." has me concerned. When a Scout calls me to ask that I counsel him on a merit badge the first thing I do is schedule a meeting ASAP and tell the boy not to start just yet. At the first meeting I go over the requirements and tell him my expectations. For myself, I do accept merit badge worksheets (www.meritbadge.com) but I also tell the Scouts that if a requirement states "tell, demonstrate, discuss, explain" etc. I expect just that - not a paper. A Scout should not meet with his counselor for the first time to show him/her "what he has done." Setting expectations which are clearly understood by the Scout and MB counselor go a long way in alleviating misunderstandings later. That is why MB classes and such don't always work smoothly.

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Can you guys believe I actually am a MBC for Communication too? Scary, huh?

 

OK -- Here's how it works when they want to do a MB with me (and I hope I actually get all the steps in). They get a blue card signed by SM. They talk to me about what they need to do. I give them a sheet with those expectations in writing. They do the work. We meet & go over the requirements -- sometimes not until they have done all they can do on their own, sometimes several times to help clarify or just get small steps done. (This is the part I was referring to when I said the first time it was presented -- as work that has been completed. I didn't mean the first time it was discussed.) But from the beginning they have have been told they need to be able to "discuss" the discussion questions, not just be able to read their written report to me. They also know ahead that even though it is not required to be signed off on the experiment requirements, we WILL be discussing how it pertains to life. Sometimes I encourage a lad to utilize the merit badge worksheets if they have organizational issues. Sometimes I even provide them. (Thank you meritbadge.com!!!!) I always provide my own set of verbal & written instructions BEFORE they start.

 

So, even though you may say "never mind", I need to be clearer in my explanations. I knew what I was thinking...can't believe you all aren't mind readers!

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OK!! Lock and Load everyone Im officially hanging a bulls-eye on my butt here. This is going to be seen as rule mongering by some and nit picking by others, BUT nowhere in the requirements for meritbadges does it say that a scout MUST talk with a MeritBadge Counselor BEFORE he starts a merit badge. Those references along with Blue Cards and Buddies are in the methods and procedures not the requirements. We are supposed to abide by the rules set by National according to the adult app we all signed. Requiring a scout to meet with you before he begins is adding to the requirements. Because parts of different requirements require a scout to discuss parts of the work with his counselor requiring him to discuss parts which are not stipulated as having to be discussed, in order to have the requirement signed off, is adding to the requirements. I HATE IT!!!! Im a counselor for Personal Management and have this argument with my Council Advancement Chair about twice a year. (I want the boy to talk with me before he starts and am told I cant require that) Ive contacted National and was given the parts of the methods and procedures explanation.

What we end up with is a decision to technically break the rules in an attempt to better the scout thereby breaking our oath to follow the rules and regulations as set forth by the Corporation., follow the rules to the letter and accept work that is beneath the scouts ability and not in keeping with the intent of the MeritBadge Program, or quit being a Merit Badge Counselor. I related a story in another thread about a scout who presented me with a budget and records for three months money management that was ALL ZEROS! His explanation was that his mother didnt allow him to handle money. I refused to accept the work, Mom went to Council and I got a phone call threatening to remove me from the certified Counselor list. The boy got the badge from another counselor.

Our Mission is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law. The first line of the Oath reads; On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my Country and to obey the Scout Law. Thats all one sentence and nowhere in the Law does it say I will do my best. Our question here is not one of rules and regulations and fine print its one of ethics, can we be taken at our word or not. Personally I do not see that refusing to accept a budget of all zeros is breaking my oath to follow the rules. In fact I see it as up holding that oath and is an attempt to counsel the scout in the badge he asked me to counsel him in.

MaScout, you are trying to do what you see as being in the best interest of the scout, if you dont have a problem with it the boy is free to find another counselor. Do your best to instill the values of the Oath and Law and teach the boys to do the same.

LongHaul

 

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CRIKEY!!!

 

We're damned if we do & damned if we don't!

 

Well--in my case, I am the SM, so if a lad chooses to use me for his MBC, he talks to me right then & there. I can't believe -- forget it -- yes I can -- that you were told you couldn't require the boy to meet with you at the beginning! That's SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) from the reading material (Boy Scout Handbook, page 187)!

1) Obtain from your Scoutmaster...

2) Along with another...attend your first appointment...will explain.." AAAAARGH!

 

For pity's sake -- how do they know what you want if they don't meet with you?!?! Not trying to shoot you in the bull's eye, nor even shoot the messenger. Just saying AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGHHH!!!!!

 

Incidentally, when it doesn't say discuss, I don't "require" they discuss it with me. I will sign off the requirement. However, if they don't want to discuss it, they will have to listen to me monologue for a bit, before I "get around" to moving on. ;)

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LongHaul has a valid point. There is nothing that requires a Scout to call or meet with a MB counselor prior to starting a MB. But by not meeting with the MB counselor, how is a Scout to know what the MB counselor is looking for?

 

I always meet with the Scouts prior to them starting a MB. This way I get to know them a little & can get an understanding of their understanding of the MB requirements. This helps when I am evaluating their completion of the requirements. I also use the MB worksheet at meritbadge.com. Thanks guys!

 

LongHaul also posted he wouldn't accept a Scouts budget for the Personal Management MB because his budget contained all zeros. And the Scout seemed to have a valid reason for this. The requirement states:

 

2. Do the following:

 

1. Prepare a budget reflecting your expected income (allowance, gifts, wages), expenses, and savings. Track your actual income, expenses, and savings for 13 consecutive weeks. (You may use the forms provided in this pamphlet, devise your own, or use a computer generated version.) When complete, present the results to your merit badge counselor.

2. Compare expected income with expected expenses.

1. If expenses exceed income, determine steps to balance your budget.

2. If income exceeds expenses, state how you would use the excess money (new goal, savings).

 

While I wouldn't like a Scout presenting a budget with all zeros he did meet the letter of the requirement and it should be signed off.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

 

 

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We could get in a big discussion about whether methods and procedures are requirements or not. Sometimes I think we spend too much time analyzing and reading between the lines of lots of publications to figure out what to do. We make this way too complicated. Rather than analyzing the question to death, try looking at this in the way a boy looks at it.

 

He flips to page 187 of his handbook, Earning a Merit Badge. Paraphrasing, When you have decided on a merit badge you would like to earn, follow these steps:

Obtain from your Scoutmaster a signed blue card and the name of a counselor.

Set up and attend your first appointment. The counselor will explain the requirements and help you plan ways to fulfill them.

Next, complete the requirements.

 

Asking a boy to meet with you first is hardly adding to the requirements. Its written right in the boys Handbook.

 

The Boy Scout Handbook must be the primary reference as to how Scouting works. All the other publications, committees, advancement chairs, councils, and national org support the Handbook. There is nothing in BSA that trumps what the boy is told in his Handbook.

 

So, where on page 187 is the boy told that he may complete the merit badge requirements first, then approach a counselor for sign off?

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Longhaul is correct, a boy may start a merit badge before meeting with his MB counselor, before getting Scoutmaster approval and even before becoming a Boy Scout! Is it recommended? No. Is it wise? No.

 

One of the badges I counsel is Personal Fitness. I've had many a Scout complete twelve weeks of exercises - except for stretching. Or, complete with out first getting a baseline. When I ask the Scout not to start until he meets with me it is more "wisdom" for his protection than levying an additional requirement on him.

 

Now, to stir the pot, how does one interpret the following:

Explain to your merit badge counselor verbally or in writing what personal fitness means to you, including ...

 

May a MB counselor choose which method (verbal or written) or is it the at the discretion of the Scout? Let's say, an 11 year old Scout has a written explanation that seems to be written by a Harvard scholar and when questioned verbally by the MB counselor the Scout just looks at his shoes and mumbles, "I dunno." Has the Scout fulfilled this requirement?

 

Similarly, what about: Have your parent, counselor, or other adult take and record the following measurements: Can the MB counselor "demand" that he be present when these measurements are taken? Is that adding to the requirements?

 

Before we cry wolf about "adding to the requirements" I feel we need to give the MB counselor some leeway on how he/she wants to conduct teaching.

 

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I counsel this badge. I have the boys come to my shop to do some of the experiments. I own an automotive repair shop so I have a lot of the things needed to so some of them. This way I see them do the experiments and we talk about the results of what they have done.

 

Only have one time had a parent tell me that their son shouldn't have to explain. I simply said well then I don't have to sign off the requirement.

Never had another problem.

 

My latest problem was a Scout that called me on this badge wanting to go over the environment in a bottle. I had never heard from this boy, he had the badge complete except for this. I told him that I needed to talk to his SM. That until I had received his Blue Card at the beginning of the badge I was not his counselor. Have never heard another thing.

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I agree with MaScout's approach as well.

 

One of my pet peeves is when people say "you can't add to the requirements" to mean that you're not allowed to use common sense in interpreting the requirement. You, as the counselor, are allowed to determine what the requirement means. You are also able to decide what you will accept as evidence that the requirement has been completed. I think that if the requirement is for the Scout to write a paper, you can ask him to discuss his paper with you as evidence that he actually wrote it. Asking for evidence is not adding to the requirement - it's just defining how you will determine whether the requirement has been completed.

 

Oak Tree

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