More BOR horror stories

[firecrafter 10]

Our troop has resently had two BOR's that went horribly wrong. The first: Scout phones SM to ask for a conference. SM returns call two days later, leaves message. No response from Scout. At weekly meeting finds out Scout has already had SM conference with ASM (yes "that" ASM). In our troop only the SM does the Soutmaster conference unless it is his own son. BOR is set up with people who aren't typically called for BOR, but who are sympathetic to Scout & his past behavior problems. He passes the BOR but is encouraged to write a two page letter describing his disatisfaction with the troop, program, leaders, and fellow Scouts. His letter is presented by the Avancement Chairman to the TC. The SM & CC are blindsided, having no prior knowledge of the letter or it's contents. As a CM I got a copy. It sounded disrespectful, ungrateful, and not factual in the least. SM investigated any claim he made involving Scouts, by interviewing Scouts And their parents. Turned out they were all untrue. CC set up a meeting with the letterwriting Scout, his Dad & various other leaders. Scout's Dad says these were not the Scout's concerns, but that the letter was "dragged" out of him by the BOR group. At Committee meeting the adults who did the dragging defended their actions. Committee doen't think the Scout, nearly 16 years old and a Star Scout, should be reprimanded for making false accusations against fellow Scouts. Sadly this Scout has been dragged into more than letter writing. He is being fed a lot of misinformation from the troop malcontent("that" ASM).

 

OK, Second Scout. Just turned 16, is now a Life Scout. One of the best Scouts we have ever seen in our troop. Has served as SPL for 1 1/2 years (combined), and done an excellent job. Has a great attitude, is helpful, good with younger Scouts, etc. He went in for his Life BOR. He was asked, "Would you wear your Scout uniform to school proudly". His answer was that he prefers not to because of teasing from other students, but that he has on occassion worn it to school. Another was "What took you so long to reach Life Scout? and "Are you going to take so long to reach Eagle?" (HELLO! He's been SPL for most of the last few years!) The real topper was this... He had completed the "Citizenship in the World" MB, prior to his BOR with one of it's members. He had a signed completed blue card from her. She had asked him to do an extra report on current events that was not required for the MB, because "she felt it was important that he know about current events". He agreed to turn in the report. As he was leaving two days after his BOR for National Jamboree he had not yet turned it in. (I might add that he was chosen as the SPL for our distric group.)Anyway, because he had not turned in a report that was NOT REQUIRED, this woman refused to sign off on the BOR. The Advancement Chairman tried reasoning with her but she wouldn't budge. Things were said (by her) about his not keeping his word and his integrity. The Scout was denied his advancement. At that point the Sout did lose his cool, but only slighty, asking the board "Are you saying I am not a good Scout?" He emailed the report to the board member the next day, she signed off... but since that time the Scout refuses to return to meetings. His parents said he was so disraught at the way he was treated, that he actually cried on the ride home.

Our SM is still working this one out. The poor guy, I can't imagine spending so much time cleaning up after committee members. At meetings the CM's continue to defend their actions even when the SM or CC tell them otherwise.

Maybe this should be under the "why leaders quit" post.

firecrafter

[Proud Eagle 13]

Yikes!

 

That is horrible!

 

To my knowledge, nothing like that goes on in the troop I belong to. However, I could be wrong.

 

I do witness on a regular basis what happens in a unit with zero trained leaders that is run by a bunch of very good people with very little understanding of Scouting. It isn't real pretty, but it beats the heck out of what you described.

[packsaddle 753]

Firecrafter, those are some very sad things. I feel badly for the boys involved and probably for the rest of the boys in the troop as well. Unfortunately, I have no solutions except to try to support those involved who have cool heads and are working toward resolution. We have confronted something like this on occasion but so far I have been an effective advocate for the scout in each case. I wish your troop success.

[Prairie_Scouter 10]

Wow! Horrible indeed. More than a few adults who need to learn how things are supposed to be done.

 

I spend a good deal of time mentoring our adults on what's ok, and what's not ok, for questions in a BOR. Used to be we had Scouts tying knots in their BOR. Sounds like the groups you mention need some serious guidance on how a BOR is run.

 

Regards the MBC who is requiring extra assignments, in ALL seriousness, this person should be reported to your district advancement chair. It is VERY clear that a merit badge counselor cannot add any requirements to a badge. Coercing a young man to do so, and then accusing him of not having intergrity when he's unable to do it because of other activities, says more about this adult than it does about the Scout. Far, far, better to lose that adult than to lose that Scout.

[scoutldr 732]

THat's assuming that the MBC is registered with the District...many are not, and seldom are signatures checked against the approved list. Does your district conduct MBC training? Based on what was said, the SM can just refuse to refer any more Scouts to her. THis troop needs the services of a Unit COmmissioner...do you have one?

[evmori 11]

I would start by getting the UC involved. It really sounds like there is a hidden agenda somewhere. I might even start looking for a new Troop.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[firecrafter 10]

First, I'm not going anywhere. I'm sticking with this Troop and supporting the SM in his efforts to get things back on track.

The BOR issues just came to his attention recently and he is working with the Advancement Chairman to educate him and other committee members. The MBC suprised us all by her actions! She was a founding member of the troop. Thankfully she has decided to retire from Scouting recently. I am a MBC myself and fully understand that requirements cannot be added to or changed. Getting everyone else up to speed is the issue.

Most of our committe needs to find out how things are done in BSA. Those of us who have taken time to get educated & trained are trying to encourage them to do the same. I was asked by the CC to share how the Charter/Troop/Committee is structured. Some seemed pretty shocked to learn how things are done. They seem to want to fly by the seat of their pants. I keep saying that it's not BSA if we do that.

We did bring in the UC, during the aforementioned 4 hour meeting. He mostly just told everyone to "play nice". When the UC goes home, the parents are right back to old behaviors.

Someone mentioned hidden agendas... boy do we have one. The ASM wants his son to have Eagle in a big way. The son is a continual behavior problem (don't get me started). ASM even threatened to "run against" the current SM right before rechartering this year (because SM refused to appoint the boy as troop guide). The SM isn't going anywhere soon. The Charter is happy with him. The CC is happy with him. I'm not so sure the ASM will be rechartered this year though.

In all seriousness, this IS a good troop. It has experienced the fasted growth in our district and has a great reputation. Some of these problems are just growing pains and much was caused by our renegade ASM. We are slowly weeding through some things.

I'm not ready to give up.

Firecrafter

 

[anarchist 10]

firecrafter, sorry for the long post....

 

If things are as bad as appears in your posts... and the problem ASM can't be brought into the fold by diplomacy...it maybe time time to "fire" him (the ASM that is) plain and simple.

 

Some questions: Who appoints your BoRs? Sounds kinda "Ad Hoc"...Suggestion: CC and SM (COR if necessary) should approve your Board members...

 

What qualifications have you set for participation on a board? Comment: In our "gang", we have at least three trained, "rock solid" committee menbers..We then allow "newbies" and committee "trainees" to sit in and participate...sorta see how is is done...

Then, if they go all "stupid" on us; (you know the "well, back in my day we....")the assigned members (3) all sign off on the BoR advancement form and there are no "problems" to speak of...(I mean, whoops...there are only three signature lines on the form).

 

Do you have enough caring parents to pass over the offending CMs? Comment: may need to recruit and train more- we have plenty of Committee members (about 15 who are trained- though probably not house broken) specifically to avoid BoR issues...We have BoRs scheduled right in our monthly troop calendar for the first and third meeting nights each month and the CC sends email reminders ...for Adult planning purposes (to be sure that we have enough level headed folks to "man the boards"). We also as a general rule have enough committee members who are active enough that on most other meeting nights if the SM requests our time we can accomodate... (only hang up is meeting room availability-church is sometimes very busy).

 

Do you have written troop BoR policies? Comments: I know many "here" will say we need no more rules than BSA gives us but it can really help explain the COs expectations for its troops and Scouters "direction" and actions...Per our policy, the BSA BoR guidelines and sample questions are printed and our BoR membership requirements (trained and active and usually not stupid) are set out for all Scout families to see. NO BoRs are held without the SM and CC's approval of the BoR makeup...one of our ASMs or "pushy parents" simply can't pull it off. Also helps that only the CC, SM and Advancement chair have "access" to Advancement forms.

 

As to the mater of the CM-who is the MBC for Cit./World;

First to play devils advocate (her side) since we were not there...just maybe she was "wavering" on signing him off for his MB... 'cause he wasn't handling the requirements as well as she wanted... lets say, requirement 3b or 7 and he really needed it (MB) for his SM conference and board...so maybe she wanted him to firm up his understanding with a report??? But then she agreed to sign him off... if he would enlighten himself and her a little more clearly with the "horror of horrors" offending report(?)...Just a "what if" here, but not unplausable and not really adding to the requirement since "tell" can be done in many cases, in writing...some MBCs prefer it actually... Further, since he was able to blow the report out to her immediately it seems it was hardly all that difficult a matter...we don't really know the specifics though, do we? We do know,however, that he "promised"...(perhaps, even under 'duress'(?))and did not keep it.

 

That said...now back to the program...this is the SM's ball to "knock out of the park". He should be keeping a list of all District/Council approved MBCs that your guys are likely to use... When a boy expresses an interest or need for a few names the SM sits down and chats a bit (we do try to "guide" our boys to use MBCs who are "outside the troop" when possible). If you come up with a one of the "Twits of the World", a simple line through that name crosses them off your book...They don't 'mess' with your scouts again...SM, if he feels she was out of line after looking into it, should notify your "problem child" MBC that she won't be doing Cit./World for any of your guys in the future...It is just not that hard ( in most areas) to find a replacement (or "grow" one if needed).

 

On your RGS (really good scout) ...I am bothered somewhat by the fact that some of the questions you have "issues" with(uniform wear, length of time to reach life and future rank time goals) are not "on the face of it" bad questions. In fact, I have to say, they are typical questions that can help get a handle on the scouts personal direction, involvement in his own improvement and even his ability to handle peer pressure.

 

And the fact that they seem to cause you distress is somewhat disturbing. I wonder why? As far as your 'exclaimitory' excuse ie. "HELLO... he was really busy for the last year and a half"... I must wonder about what is not being said here...After all Star to Life is not that tough...at least over a year or a year and a half...busy or not...So is your reaction just a personal thing because you were angry or is there more?

 

The scout needs to be counseled about how adults make as many mistakes sometimes as kids do...He also needs to be guided about handling disappointments, even stupidly unfair disappointments...It should be one of those "Teaching moments". Not being there to actually experence the atmosphere of the BoR... I wonder if such ill 'treatment' is the whole reason of his disaffection with scouting...could burn-out also be a factor? Again, "Teaching moment time" might be here.

 

Good luck, hang in and work it out! It sounds like your core group of leaders are on the same page...you just need to show a few lost souls ("twits"?) the light or maybe the door.

Anarchist

[orennoah 11]

Oh boy! You've got a nasty situation, but you know that.

 

I think that the most telling comment you made was that after UC left "the parents" went back to their ways.

 

Until they stop being "parents" and start being adult leaders, you'll never get out your problems.

 

- Oren

[John-in-KC 311]

I have to agree with anarchist.

 

If an ASM is unwilling to follow the lead of THE PROGRAM OFFICER (Scoutmaster), then he is a hindrance, rather than a help.

 

The CC and the SM need to work off the same page: Do the actions of the other adults in this unit SERVE THE SCOUTS?