District Advancement Folks

[Fishsqueezer]

I am new to this board and relatively new as a Scoutmaster, so I guess I am a little impressionable. I have had a couple questions concerning the District Advancement folks that I am not sure how to address.

 

1) I had a discussion with one of the District Advancement people about recieving the rank of scout. He insisted that over his 30+ years of scouting that as soon as the boy joins he is at scout rank. I hold that as soon as he fills out his paperwork and pays dues he is a Boy Scout but he is not scout rank until he can recite the Law and Oath, etc and has a Scoutmaster Conference.

 

2) All the literature I find states that the Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters cannot serve on the Eagle BOR. The District guy says that isn't true and they have ASMs serving all the time.

 

Do I need to be concerned with this conflicting info and way of doing things? Should I try to address it or just work around it and try to follow the book?

 

I've discussed it with the District guy and all I get is "I've been doing scouting over 30 years and I know what I am doing." (Implied is "so shut up and do it my way"

 

Scoutmaster for

[Eagle69]

There is no requirement for a boy to RECITE the Oath, Law, etc., the requirement says "Understand and agree to live by the Oath, Law, Motto Slogan and the Outdoor Code". He does have to repeat the Pledge of Allegiance. The bottom line though is that signing the application does not automatically give him the Scout rank.

 

As far as SM and ASM not being part of the Eagle Board, I have heard that and have seen the ASM on a board when the troop couldn't get enough adults otherwise.

 

Should you fight it and make waves or just sit back and accept it? That is a decision that only you can make.

[Hunt]

I think what the district guy may have been saying about "Scout" is that it is not exactly a rank--there is no Board of Review for Scout, for example. Its requirements are described as "joining" requirements. I'm not sure one even turns in an advancement report for achievement of Scout--what you turn in is the registration form. Perhaps BSA's records simply show a boy as "Scout" as of the date of registration--of course, that doesn't mean that you have to give him the Scout Badge before he's completed the other requirements.

[Lisabob]

Looking at the requirements on the USScouts.org page, I notice that the Scout rank is listed as follows:

 

"Boy Scout Joining Requirements (Scout Badge)" .

All the other ranks are listed as "xyz Rank"

 

www.usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsranks.html

 

Also, unlike each of the other ranks, there are no "alternative" requirements for the scout badge listed. And, as has been pointed out, the requirements are quite simple. This leads me to believe the scout badge is intended to be given very quickly to new boys, though of course they should fulfill the requirements as listed first. With the exception of requirement #9 which must be done w/ a parent/guardian, I imagine most boys could earn it by the end of their second troop meeting, if given an opportunity to do so.

 

Fishsqueezer, one of the things you'll probably find out pretty quickly is that district staff seldom spend much time looking over unit leaders' shoulders unless there's a major problem in the unit. Or at least, that's my experience. And I too have run into numerous district folks who are sure they - and only they - know the received truth, regardless of whatever is in the actual BSA material. In those cases, chances are good that just quietly following the book will be more effective than locking horns with the district guy, especially since you've already gotten the "buzz off" statement from him.

 

Of course it pays to be open to the possibility that the district guy is right too, and double check the actual policy.

[AwHeck]

There is a checklist (albeit in the front of the book vice the back) for Scout rank. Most of the requirements are covered by the Arrow of Light requirements but our troop considers them separately. We take one Saturday early in March to do our annual "New Scout/New Parent" orientation. New scouts spend the day in round-robin training sessions that review all of the scout rank requirements along with some of the Tenderfoot requirements. We include a Scoutmaster Conference as part of that day (with the help of several ASMs). Most of our scouts are awarded their 'Scout' rank on that Saturday evening. An advancement report is filed to show that these scouts have achieved Scout rank. Within TroopMaster, I know that scouts are listed as "new" until such time as their Scout rank is recorded.

 

Not related but as a point of information... while the scouts are doing the above, I have the parents for the day. I have recently incorporated the New Leaders Essentials training into my agenda for the day, we've always included Youth Protection training (as long as I've been with the troop). In addition, we talk about how Boy Scouts is different from Cub Scouts, how our troop operates, what equipment the troop has and what the scouts will need etc. The full day is capped off with a full turkey dinner prepared and served by our oldest scouts. It's quite a day but it starts both the scouts and their parents off on the right foot.

[nldscout]

Fishsqueezer

SM and ASM cannot searve on any BOR's, Eagle or otherwise. What he may be talking about is as SM, I sat in on many Eagle BOR's. I was there to introduce the Scout and to clarify any issues the board may have. (Never did have any issues)

 

 

[mdutch]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but couldn't an ASM serve on a Eagle BOR for a scout in a different troop. After all, the only requirment for them is that they understand the significance of the rank and the scout oath and law.

 

Not sure if this is allowed, just a thought

[SueM]

The responsibility for BoR's is supposed to be left to committee members, however many troops including my own, those lines are often crosses. Many adults who are registered as committee members actually do act more as ASM's and some who are registered as ASM's often do committee work...this is especially true I think of troops who have a limited amount of adult help!! We have had adult ASM's sit on BoR if no other CM's were available...but we have been making an effort to try and limit that as much as we can. My feeling is that you do the best that you can with what you have available.

 

Sue M.

[NWScouter]

There are two types of Eagle Board of Review one set up and staffed by the district advancement committee and the other set up and staffed by the troop committee. It is the council decision on which type.

 

The district run board members are recruited and organized by the district advancement chair or person he delegates to be in charge. They members are drawn from a cross section of the scouters from the district (including some SM and ASM) and community leaders (mayors, councilpersons, police chiefs, judges, bussines owners and other community leaders). Members of the candidate's unit (troop, team, crew) do not sit on his board but his unit leader or designate (not a parent) introduces the candidate and stays as an observer. Our district last month had three boards sitting at the same time and six candidates going through them.

 

The troop run boards are selected by the troop and must include one district representative.

 

I have sat on both kinds (invited to be on one in council just south of mine), I prefer the district run board. Generally just a higher quality control.

 

[frankj]

A new Scout does not automatically earn the Basic Scout badge on joining.

On the Eagle Boards of Review, in our district they are handled by the District. The SM introduces the candidate, maybe gives some general info, then is excused. The board consists of the District Eagle Coordinator, the troop advancement coordinator and a third party someone the Eagle Coordinator invites -- it has been a Scouter from another troop, familiar with Eagle BOR procedures.

 

nld scout says: SM and ASM cannot searve on any BOR's, Eagle or otherwise.

 

Huh? Our SM serves on nearly every non-Eagle BOR. nld ... are you sure about this? (I'm going to have to start keeping my booklet on Advancement Policies and Procedures next to this computer!)

 

 

[Proud Eagle]

Does anyone know what would happen if an ASM from a unit was a member of an Eagle BOR for that unit?

 

I can't see requiring the Scout to complete a second BOR, that seems unfair (unless there is reason to belive it was done as part of some sort of conspiracy to influence the board).

 

I also can't see faulting the ASM, particularly if they were invited to sit on the board by the District Advancement Chairman (as is the norm in my council).

 

It seems the fault should be placed on the district/council for not ensuring that they had trained and knowledgeable volunteers in key roles and failing to provide the resources needed to support them.

 

The reason I ask is that I was invited to serve on an Eagle BOR and one of the candidates being considered is from my troop. I also happen to be the OA Lodge Advisor. It so happened that the Scout was not prepared for the BOR on the night scheduled, so it did not make a difference in the end. Now the District Advancement Chairman is relatively new to the job, so they may not yet be fully up to speed on the policies and procedures. Also, there is a relatively small pool of experienced Scouters in my community who are usually called on to do these sorts of things, so it may have been done at least in part out of necessity.

 

I really don't know quite what the harm in sitting on the board would have been. I have reasons to be both for and against this person's advancement to Eagle. However, I feel certain in this case I could objectively evaluate the candidate. Also, some basic knowledge of the candidate could be quite useful in the BOR. To be quite honest I sometimes fill a role in the unit that is probably closer to that of either a unit commissioner or committee member. I am an Assistant Scoutmaster simply because that is how I have been registered since turning 18.

 

Now that I know the policy, I will most likely decline to sit on the BOR when it convenes again to consider this particular Scout.

 

(On a mostly unrelated note, I know of a unit where several leaders are changing their BSA registration at recharter in hopes of being able to serve on the BOR of a member of that unit.)

[FScouter]

"It seems the fault should be placed on the district/council for not ensuring that they had trained and knowledgeable volunteers in key roles and failing to provide the resources needed to support them."

 

Board of review info is easily found in the Scoutmaster Handbook, the Troop Committee Guidebook, and the Advancment Committee Policies and Procedures book.

 

"(On a mostly unrelated note, I know of a unit where several leaders are changing their BSA registration at recharter in hopes of being able to serve on the BOR of a member of that unit.)"

 

And the reason for that would either be to push through an unqualified boy, or to block his advancement? How sad they don't trust the existing board to do their job correctly.

 

 

[EagleInKY]

NWS summarized the Eagle BOR policies pretty well. An ASM or SM could certainly serve on a BOR for a scout in a different troop. I have done this.

 

frankj - You need to get your committee a copy of the advancement guidelines. ASM and SM are not permitted to participate in BORs in their own troop. The primary reason, I believe, is so the committee can adequately evaluate the troop program through the eyes of the scout. If they ask questions like "How do you like Boy Scouts?" or "Are you having fun on the campouts?", the scout may feel awkward voicing a complaint/concern if the SM is present.

 

While there are times I'd love to hear what is said in the BORs, I appreciate the feedback (both good and not so good) that I get from the advancement chair after the BOR.