Double Eagle

Wow! Having thought about this a while and read the posts, definitely time for a meeting, have the parent present, with the SM, CC, COR, and even the committee. This will be one that you will probably win in the troop but lose the scout. From what I hear, he needs some real maturity quick, fast, and in a hurry. The answer is not with the troop. Its with the parent(s). She seems to be answering for her son. Time to hurt her feelings if it may. Its only a matter of time before other scouts and parents question whether the troop is worthy of their son's atention. The fire department is already doing that. Thank them for the time and efforts. I know this is drastic, but time to put a stop to it now. There is no easy way. Based off the mother's attitude, she'll probably quit after the meeting. Better to have the committee agree and let the DE know of the problem and the decision. This is where her protest will be first addressed. Stick to your guns and don't be bullied by her. Kinda' like the comment that ozemu made jokingly. hmmmmmm?

The number of hours does not make a project acceptable or not. It would be easy to drag out a project. He will do a lot of the manhours but in the resourcing, planning and leading. The muscle of the project should come from his help with his guidance and direction. Outside-troop-leadership roles are good for being a community leader but not for the scouts. I think the board will see this as a positive. If he didn't live up to expectations during his leadership role, he most likely fell under the ASPL. Troop JLT should have helped in expectations if conducted. It sounds like the scout had scout spirit, being on camp staff, and still sticking with it and not quitting. He may not feel connected with the scouts if there is a large age gap. I don't know where he stands in maturity, hangs with the adults or a hero to the younger ones. It seems like you are holding his past few months, maybe longer as how he is as a total scout. The board will look as his whole scouting time, even cubs and the arrow of light. Don't write him off as being a poor scout because he has some personal struggles going on. Teenagers have a million, with two teen boys/scouts, I know. We all go through slumps and pull out of it. At least he is still with the program, after putting up with this fight. Sounds like you may have the problem. One voice does not get to make the decision. As for the Dad/Eagle. He is caught in the fight and on the scout's/son's side of course. Someone like the advancement chair should remind him of the requirements. Back off and let it come from another source. Seems like you are at a stale-mate with this one. Bottom line: The board is pretty good at seeing through eye-wash and looks at the total scout.

Gotta go back a few years. Loved the green uniforms. They were cheap, could be found everywhere. Any garage sale, or thrift store seemed to have them. The short sleeve ones had no collar, so a neckerchief had to be worn. You blended into the forest, "Leave No Trace" principal? Scouts were not afraid to get it dirty or wear it. It could be recognized by everyone because the style was worn for so long. The current ones look good in pictures and public but are too pretty in the field. Give me one that is an earth tone and as durable as the BDUs. OGE: I still have the green garters and socks. Someday maybe. Overall, they cost too much to scout heavy in them.

GO!!! Having been there twice, once as a 14yr old. I think I can tell you that as a scout this will be an adventure of a lifetime. The fires closed some of the north area for a while but itineraries have been changed and safety is ever present. The hazards are nothing that the average camp cannot experience. The ranger doesn't abandon you. There is a lot of coaching and guiding in those days that he shares with the crew. Once the ranger leaves, the crew will be successful and will bond even more. It is the ideal place to live the outdoor portion of scouting. The scout will grow as big as a mountain and burst at the seams with stories. Let him go. Parents have the hardest time at Philmont. Or should I say not at Philmont. Although a big trip for a young guy, parents will worry and try every way to contact junior on the trail. He will be in good hands. The staff is excellent and well trained. Support and have faith in your scout. He will be a little different when he returns. More confident and have the magic of scouting flowing. It may be hard to make him talk about anything else. I took a troop of 20 to Switzerland to the Kandersteg International Scout Center and had scouts younger than yours go. This required several train changes (2 minutes to get all scouts and equipment on). Money exchanges, borders, and then transportation home. Many of the parents were worried, but the meetings before helped prepare them and the scouts with what to expect. We go again in Jan 03. For more info on the current Philmont trail talk and info go to www.philmont.com and check out the site. Daily updates on treks, advice, and equipment.

Where to start. This sounds too familiar. Like earlier stated the Charter Organization has the say in the selection of the Cubmaster. The same for troops. Where you have only one person going for the position, I've seen where several wanted the positions of Cubmaster and Scoutmaster. This made an uneasy environment for the committee. Get help from your Unit Commissioner or Assistant District Commmissioner. This guy is way out of bounds with removing leaders from their positions. The Cubmaster should be working with the den leader coach to help you. Whether you have a disability or not does not a leader make. I think that this is a positive with the boys being able to openly talk about the problem. They are curious and what better way to see that a disability is really only in their minds, not yours. Award these boys with what they earned. I have a scout spirit necklace that is earned every troop meeting. They keep it until the next meeting. The scouts seem to go for that more than some other things. The little achievements to us are monumental things to the boys. Recognize in public, counsel in private. Sounds like your Cubmaster needs to be pryed from his pedestal. See if someone can't get him to a roundtable where things like this can be tabled. Not to attack him, but to help with the working of the pack. Its only time until the boys take up a negative attitude towards scouting with the current program.

OGE, Last year I had a couple of the scouts get homesick. What I did was have some of the older scouts individually talk with the scout and keep them busy. This worked pretty well. Their blue state only lasted for about an hour and back to scouting stuff. Some precautions could be pre-written letters from parents and given secretly to the SM to use as needed. On the council level, if the problem is widespread, the parent's day at camp being closer to the middle of the week. Ours is on Friday. Wednesday is my recommendation, helps with depleting scout finances (that dang trading post just has too much good stuff) and is a good support day to keep going with the activities. As for the phone, case-by-case. I've seen this help and I've seen scouts plead, cry, and beg to come home with no luck. This only made it hard for me to explain why the parents would not let them or come to get them. Hard on the scout and me when the phone call only compounded the problem. As a scout, I remember some scouts that were homesick. The easing into longer campouts works. As SM, I discourage the parent/scout tent partners. Scouts with scouts. This is a step especially for the close ones. Kind of breaking ties gently.

Ahhh, the magic of scouting. Keep the show going with positive comments and don't blow up about small mishaps. Seems like he got some independance and confidence all by himself (he thinks).

Mike Long has a good list. Go with that. Maybe these two are OA members that could put on a demonstration as part of camp promotion on fire safety. This could be conducted at a camporee or the other weeks of summer camp. Removal from position should be probably looked at more. Especially after a cool down period of the SM/parent. I've seen this happen a couple of times and it was more of the parent acting than scouter. They were not put in the position because of one incident, and maybe not punished to that extent for one. How did they take the action? Not only being punished at camp but to have it continue back in the troop may be a wedge between them and scouting. We "Grumps" make mistakes and I'm an expert. Definitely poor judgement on the fire/can issue. (This message has been edited by Double Eagle)

We all love the weather rock. Caveman golf with a club made from local down wood. Tent totems megaphone from a downed birch tree. Hatrack Good luck.

cmjiam: Agreed on looking out for the son. As for individual accounts. Some problems come with that one. This seems a financial nightmare. Here's how. While it is in the bank earning interest, does the interest go to the scout or troop. Is the "account" an actual account or is it a portion of a lump sum included in the budget. What happens if the scout quits. Can the scout and/or parents give authorization for the use (at camp the scout runs out of cash and says charge it to his account?). Can the parent decide or just the scout. How will this be handled if the new troop does not have individual accounts. Parameters on what the money can be used for, such as FOS, re-registering, training, family members involvement. I think these are issues that can arise with the accounts. I'm hoping these types are addressed in the operating guidelines (by-laws by some). Seems like a lot of issues and headaches for the committee with individual accounts. What do ya think, or how have they worked in some troops. I'm not sold on them yet.

cjmiam: You referred in earlier posts to go to small claims court. This troop needs help, not court, not being abandoned, there are still scouts there that don't have a parent taking them to the other troops. You mention the promise, After leaving the troop I think ScoutParent should still persue help for the troop. What's the downside if they do? The troop doesn't have any impact on the moved scout. Moving the scout is a bandaid. Not the cure. Solve the problem with the funds, and also the management of the troop. You will never please every parent. You are so quick to side with one parent. Are other scouts leaving for the same reasons. Gotta agree with nldscout and recommend ScoutParent talk (or send a letter) to the troop committee with the reasons for the move. ScoutParent: Commissioners can help this troop. Now is the time to help the troop from afar. (This message has been edited by Double Eagle)

acco40: The boy leadership does the shake-down. We,the leaders, fall in with them and do ours with them. I know, someone will still not have something. Ok you must be south of the Grayling, Roscommon, Mio area. They have the black flys. After scouting in the "Thumb area" I sympothize about your "other state bird". I've heard that if you put a harness on the skeeters, you can have them fly your gear where you want it. Caution: Failure to keep themn on a leash will result in your gear being lost.

nldscout: I know your area. Kiss Camp Portaferry for me. Loved it. Former Lowville ASM, before and during the merger. ScoutParent: It seems the tools were in place before the SM and wife were able to affect the troop. Back when you were #1 troop. What happened? Its kinda hard to see a troop fall like that. Has the committee changed from back then. What is the unit commissioner doing. If not unit, what is the ADC doing. They're there to help with troops, not the enemy. Better to not abandon the troop when all indicators say it needs help. Every troop goes through ups and downs, there is no "Norman Rockwell" troop. My advice is help the troop, the SM and scouts need it.

acco40, I probably know your area pretty well. I think you don't have to deal mosquitos. Mostly "little black flies", real biters. The painful thing I learned is have a shake-down of what they have packed. Our troop meets on Thurdays and the night before a campout, we have them bring in their stuff and we lock it up overnight. They take a list home of what they need. Come Friday, they bring back the list and stuff. Thanks for carbon paper. We have our list in case the scout lost his. This seems lengthly but goes pretty quick. We do a lot of backpacking and they learn to really consider what to take. The good thing is they learn what to bring because they carry it. A shake-down rule at Philmont is for every piece of equipment carried to have two uses. Good rule when you look at your own stuff.

Adults having name tags works for me. Not only for the scouts but for new parents and contacts. It also helps when the adult wears what they want to be called (e.g. Mr/Mrs Smith, JP, or Yoda). I leave the addressing part in your hands. Youth having name tags at scouting events sets well with me. This helps with learning about each other. While traveling or when they are interacting with the non-scouting world, most of the buddy teams will be calling each other by their names so the predators won't have to rely on the name tags. An "eagle eye" and letting the scouts know the possibility of predators has to happen, no matter how unfortunate it is to educate them.

A JASM may just fit the bill here. One from another troop may visit and just be able to put it in view for the scout. Sometimes the communication gap is too wide from scouter to scout. Here's your bridge. Be careful in your selection and make sure this is the one you want. The local OA lodge or chapter may be able to help you if a JASM is not available. You should not have a problem with at least the chief or a chief to stress the uniform point. Positive peer pressure and seeing their example works.

Thanks for the posts. After reading them, I got to thinking about what the youth members would consider too bad of weather. We "Grumps" (short for grown ups or how we are without coffee or sleep)seem to be able to handle it. My take from the post is that if you do the planning and are equiped, no problem. minus the 6 o'clock news kind of weather.

A thread from a discussion about a troop camping once in three months brought up an interesting subject. What is too bad of weather to camp? We had an overnight klondike derby in Upstate New York with the temperature at -30f (we slept out in tents without heaters). We also camped in the upper 90s with 90+% humidity. I have yet to stop a camping trip due to weather. The only time I can think of not camping due to weather is around lightning, tornados, hurricane, flood, or not having the right equipment or planning to match the weather. When do you consider the weather too bad to camp?

Thanks for the input. It seems like my hope of keeping the hatchet alive is going to hold. For those that like the use, please keep teaching it safely. For those that do not use them, maybe a taste test and I leave it up to you and the scouts to decide.

Hated the beret. Give me a hat/cap with an all-around brim (Like the ventures have) or a knit cap for winter. The scouts already have stripes on the sleeve for leadership positions but not for rank (APL, PL, ASPL, & SPL). I like the way the rank is displayed and what each part means. The thing I don't like is how the merit badge sash falls off the shoulder of the smaller scouts. This forces us to either sew a loop underneath it or do a button hole to attach it to the shirt.(This message has been edited by Double Eagle)

I find that being mainly associated with the military and about 95% of our scouts are of military families, we don't have that big of a problem. Seeing people in uniform daily kind of brings it on. Although we had the discussion about they can "sag" and untuck with other clothes, the uniform is not to be worn that way. It worked and has to be reinforced from time to time. The good thing is the scout pants don't hang off the hips well and tend to fall down during scout activitities if worn that way. As much as I don't like the style they do well in this area. One thread was, what happens if a scout refuses to pay, or wants to pay for the day? This is the real question that we should look at. We all agree on the importance of wearing the uniform. But how do we fix the problem when confronted with these two quesitons? I remember a few months back about an eagle candidate looking for 6 eagles with long hair. I did not get to help him but I had hair shoulder length for a long time as a scout. Being on the OA ceremony team, I kinda fit in there. Also being a beach bum (lifeguard year round) It presented no problem.(This message has been edited by Double Eagle)

A thread from "what to do with a disobedient scout". It was brought up whether charging a scout 25 cents for having an untucked shirt was allowed. I say this is one of those areas where you are on thin ice with hot skates. The up side to this is they will want to tuck in their shirts? The down side, charging and managing the money collected. Those of us with more than one son in scouts may see this as another "FOS" campaign, just kidding. But seriously, I think that there is a better way to deal with this type of problem than charging money. How about just reminding him? Let them save their money for real issues.

When we have our meal, there is usually enough to offer some out. We kinda plan for this. Having some is better than looking and smelling it. Kept in a friendly spirit, we often sample some of theirs too. Not a competition just different tastes, so to speak.

Uniforms have there place. At an opening or closing or dinner is best. Class B (pack shirt or scout activity shirt) is good for the rest of the day. I seem to never scout in the good weather. With either snow or rain, we rarely see the uniforms. An armband with the patrol or den name is great. Just wear it over the raincoat or jacket. Scouting overseas, we have to weigh the wear of the flag and uniform with traveling to and from events. In Europe, we have to watch our size of group and how not to be identified as a terrorist target. Sad but true. We did wear our uniforms while traveling on the train to and from Switzerland.

I think Dan and I are in the same troop. The one thing we (adult patrol) use is the same budget as the scouts. Usually $10 each. This way they see what we spent it on (usually not chips and munchies)and the possibilities. If there is a troop snack/cracker barrel, it usually comes from troop funds approved at the committee meeting prior.