DeanRx

I don't know if we have a Internet policy for our unit. We do have a website and FB page... mostly to share info and pictures of activities via FB. I have two or three scouts that have friended me via FB. I accepted their request. I would not seek out or send a friend request to a scout (for reasons other posters have stated).

 

I don't see a problem with it. FB is MUCH more transparent and retrievable than a private e-mail or phone call (both of which I have routinely with scouts as an ASM and MBC to set up meetings / classes / SM conferences / Etc). I don't see how this is a YPT issue at all. First of all, its retrievable. Secondly, we have 'private' conversations with scouts all the time, albiet inthe same room as other scouts / scouters, but out of earshot. Am I to request a scout have his parent on the other line when they call me to set up a meeting time for SM conference or a MB review for sign off?

 

I have had phone conversations, text messages, e-mails, and FB posts from scouts. How is any of them different from another? I guess one could be concerned with someone "grooming" a potential victim via such methods, but you can't molest someone over the internet and a pedophile would have to be a special kind of stupid to interact with a youth in a manner that can be tracked / traced / reproduced from a 3rd party ISP.

 

Seems like much ado about nothing to me...

 

Sounds like you guys handled the situation well. As to where the lad is picking this stuff up? Youtube or a porn site? Hmmmm, maybe. I'd venture to guess its a little closer to home. Does this lad or any of his close friends have an older brother? One say in late high school or early college? Good bet he picked it up from a slightly older male aquantance that he views as being "cool", thus imitates the behavoir to seem "cool" too.

 

In our troop, I can almost without exception tell you which boys have older siblings (especially older brothers) and who has younger siblings. Thos with older sibs know more about sex, more about drugs, and have to be reminded more often to watch their language than those who are the eldest child in the house or are an only child. Simple fact, a younger sibling often grows up faster and is more "worldly" than his average peer. Not a hard and fast rule, but more often than not, this holds true.

 

YouTube, they can only find so much sex ed stuff... Youtube does a pretty good job of policing itself. A porn site - not sure what he would get from this. Unless his FB posts had him talking about sex acts / things a 12 y/o should have no knowledge about - I doubt he has found that corner of cyber-space yet. If its who was "hot" or who had the best "body part" lists... sounds like an older sibling / friend thing to me. IMHO

 

As an aside - this is a very good lesson for the lad to learn. Today it was just a BOR for scouts... what happens in a few years when a potential employer sees his FB activity of years past. Or, the father of the girl he really loves? Nothing really ever goes away completely in the digital age. Glad I was 12 y/o in the 1980's - no digital copy of every stupid thing I ever did exists

 

Sounds like you guys handled the situation well. As to where the lad is picking this stuff up? Youtube or a porn site? Hmmmm, maybe. I'd venture to guess its a little closer to home. Does this lad or any of his close friends have an older brother? One say in late high school or early college? Good bet he picked it up from a slightly older male aquantance that he views as being "cool", thus imitates the behavoir to seem "cool" too.

 

In our troop, I can almost without exception tell you which boys have older siblings (especially older brothers) and who has younger siblings. Thos with older sibs know more about sex, more about drugs, and have to be reminded more often to watch their language than those who are the eldest child in the house or are an only child. Simple fact, a younger sibling often grows up faster and is more "worldly" than his average peer. Not a hard and fast rule, but more often than not, this holds true.

 

YouTube, they can only find so much sex ed stuff... Youtube does a pretty good job of policing itself. A porn site - not sure what he would get from this. Unless his FB posts had him talking about sex acts / things a 12 y/o should have no knowledge about - I doubt he has found that corner of cyber-space yet. If its who was "hot" or who had the best "body part" lists... sounds like an older sibling / friend thing to me. IMHO

 

As an aside - this is a very good lesson for the lad to learn. Today it was just a BOR for scouts... what happens in a few years when a potential employer sees his FB activity of years past. Or, the father of the girl he really loves? Nothing really ever goes away completely in the digital age. Glad I was 12 y/o in the 1980's - no digital copy of every stupid thing I ever did exists

 

Some Eagles are more worthy than others, but I do not see any of your three factors as relevant to the worthiness of an Eagle. Sorry. Perhaps you could explain why you set those factors out for voting.

In a perfect world, maybe. Truth is, if a parent is in a leadership role, the lad is more likely to show up, thus have more opportunities. In order for the adult leader to step back, it requires a new adult leader to step up! That is the crux of many a discussion on this board and others. Usually, new blood is not willing to take the reigns until the outgoing SM, ASMs have one foot out the door. You resign as SM when you son is a Life scout, there may not be a troop left for him to complete Eagle in !!

 

Truth is - most kids with adult leader parents put in more time and are held to a more stringent standard of completion than their drop-n-go peers. We already have parent leaders recuse themselves from SMC and BORs and other advancement duties if their son is up for the award. The only exception I can think of is MB classes when taught as a group.

 

I don't see why an adult leader should need to remove themselves from the leadership structure for their son to excel. I've camped 1/2 week with my son and seen him maybe 2 times in four days for about 2 hours each time. If you have the right approach, they won't be riding the adult's coat tails in advancement, IMHO.

No need to get upset or fight about rules and regs verbatim...

 

TW (tightwad) - "Its too cold outside for the scouts..." Me-"OK, do you have a substitue activity ready for them indoors? I'm all ears. The boys wanted to go outside. They'll come in if they are cold."

 

TW - "They need flashlights / supervision / etc..." Me-"Great, can you go stand outside and SUPERVISE the activity for me? Do you have any flashlights in your car you can loan out?"

 

TW - "G2SS says.... the rules state...." Me-"Hmmm, can you SHOW ME where this is? If I see it in writing, we'll (the SM and ASMs) will take it under advisement and perhaps change our policy in the future regarding this game."

 

Just put the ball back in their court and make them do the footwork to prove their point.

 

Was at the Troop meeting last night (I'm a ASM). One of the ASPLs were going around to the adults and asking if there were enough committe members in attendance to take care of a couple BORs. He had two adult committee members lined up, then asked a 3rd.

 

The 3rd guy looks at the ASPL and states, "I don't have time tonight - I'm just here for a few minutes to drop , I have to go to Costco soon." Then committee member hung out for about 20 more minutes before departing before the end of the troop meeting ?!?!? I believe they still got the BORs done, but had to wait awhile as they were forced to wait until the treasurer was finished with his troop business so that he could be the 3rd member of the BOR panel.

 

How or what, if anything, would you do to try and address this issue? I can't image volunteering on either the committee or program side of the unit - showing up for a troop meeting (even if only part of the meeting) and then refusing to DO YOUR JOB for the troop! I just cringed when I overheard the conversation between this committee person and the ASPL, but the ASPL handled it well and ultimately got the BORs done for his fellow scouts. Do I let it go as a no-harm, no-foul thing? Or is it worth making a point out of the issue? I'd be interested to hear the cyber-campfires take on this one...

 

Dean

 

In most "survival" situations, one doesn't necessarily have all the proper equipment. And the point I was making if the boys need to learn how to cut down a 2" sapling they can get the same training cutting a 2" log from training equipment. It doesn't have to be in the pickup, but when it is all said and done, the sapling is still standing and the boys learned their lesson.

 

Stosh

Or if you don't take it out of the back of dad's new pickup truck bed, you better be ready to spend more than 1 night in your "shelter" !

Got a question for the boards. Our unit is in the process of planning a unit golf tournament fundraiser. Already got an OK on it from local council. At a meeting the other night, it was brought up about alcohol on the course. The following applies to our fundraiser:

1) The beverage and food sales are ran by the course and the unit gets no % of said sales as part of the fundraiser.

2) The beverages would be offered via "beer cart" on the course that the golf course routinely opperates as part of its daily business

3) We will be having a dinner afterwards, with auction, etc... only non-alcoholic bevs provided in the dinner. However, there is a cash bar in the resturant area of the venue and I could see some folks wanting to buy a drink and bring it into the banquet hall area with their meal.

 

I understand the BSA G2SS guidelines that state: "It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members." This property is not owned or operated by the BSA. We do not anticipate any of the youth 'participating' in the tournament, but were planning on having them serve as hole-greeters, judges for longest drive, closest to pin, etc... and be around at the diner to provide slide show and maybe MC the auction, etc...

 

That being said. I have attended a couple "high-brow" dinners in my scouting days, a couple of times at the district level and once when they held the national meeting here. Big wig donors and key-note speakers type things in which there was a diner and if you bought your own "drink" at the bar outside the banquet hall, it was not viewed as a problem. These events, while not program 'for the youth' did have youth in uniform serving as color guard and on two occasions as the servers / wait staff or serving line attendants for the adults having dinner.

 

My question is this: Are we running afoul of BSA policy if those that choose to participate in a charitable golf tourney drink on the course or at the dinner afterwards?

 

I also think about the annual Scouts Night at the ballpark, where all scouts in the council come to the diamond in their unifroms. BSA doesn't ask the MLB stadium to stop selling alcohol at those games, while it does remind unit leaders and adults that it is a no-no to drink while in a BSA uniform. I know of units at both MLB games and NLF stadiums who have ran vending booths as unit fundraisers. Now, the booth the BSA unit runs cannot offer alcoholic beverages, BUT they can be sold by a seperate vendor right next door at the same event. This does not preclude the BSA unit from conducting a council approved fundraiser at the location.

 

While I don NOT want to go looking for a reason to NOT have this fundraising opportunity, I also want to avoid any issues on the back end of the event. You can give your opinion about what you think is right in this situation, but what I'd really like advice on is WHO would you contact within BSA to get an answer? The SE at council? The district DE? Would you not ask and just beg forgiveness if someone brings it up as an issue after the fact? It seems to be kind of a grey area to me given what I have seen at past district, council, and national "adult leader" meetings in the past.

 

Obviously, we do not want (and it would not be) a bosterious drunk fest. But at the same time, most guys I know that would be willing to shell out $100-$150 pp to golf in such an outing pretty much expect to be able to have a brew or two on the course. If we are forced to hold a "dry" event, I fear it would not be well attended and would likely be cause for us to reconsider the event altogether. Then I think of the local / national headline if someone were to get pulled over for a DUI coming out of a "BSA sponsored" golf tournament, and I second guess myself again.

 

Got a question for the boards. Our unit is in the process of planning a unit golf tournament fundraiser. Already got an OK on it from local council. At a meeting the other night, it was brought up about alcohol on the course. The following applies to our fundraiser:

1) The beverage and food sales are ran by the course and the unit gets no % of said sales as part of the fundraiser.

2) The beverages would be offered via "beer cart" on the course that the golf course routinely opperates as part of its daily business

3) We will be having a dinner afterwards, with auction, etc... only non-alcoholic bevs provided in the dinner. However, there is a cash bar in the resturant area of the venue and I could see some folks wanting to buy a drink and bring it into the banquet hall area with their meal.

 

I understand the BSA G2SS guidelines that state: "It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members." This property is not owned or operated by the BSA. We do not anticipate any of the youth 'participating' in the tournament, but were planning on having them serve as hole-greeters, judges for longest drive, closest to pin, etc... and be around at the diner to provide slide show and maybe MC the auction, etc...

 

That being said. I have attended a couple "high-brow" dinners in my scouting days, a couple of times at the district level and once when they held the national meeting here. Big wig donors and key-note speakers type things in which there was a diner and if you bought your own "drink" at the bar outside the banquet hall, it was not viewed as a problem. These events, while not program 'for the youth' did have youth in uniform serving as color guard and on two occasions as the servers / wait staff or serving line attendants for the adults having dinner.

 

My question is this: Are we running afoul of BSA policy if those that choose to participate in a charitable golf tourney drink on the course or at the dinner afterwards?

 

I also think about the annual Scouts Night at the ballpark, where all scouts in the council come to the diamond in their unifroms. BSA doesn't ask the MLB stadium to stop selling alcohol at those games, while it does remind unit leaders and adults that it is a no-no to drink while in a BSA uniform. I know of units at both MLB games and NLF stadiums who have ran vending booths as unit fundraisers. Now, the booth the BSA unit runs cannot offer alcoholic beverages, BUT they can be sold by a seperate vendor right next door at the same event. This does not preclude the BSA unit from conducting a council approved fundraiser at the location.

 

While I don NOT want to go looking for a reason to NOT have this fundraising opportunity, I also want to avoid any issues on the back end of the event. You can give your opinion about what you think is right in this situation, but what I'd really like advice on is WHO would you contact within BSA to get an answer? The SE at council? The district DE? Would you not ask and just beg forgiveness if someone brings it up as an issue after the fact? It seems to be kind of a grey area to me given what I have seen at past district, council, and national "adult leader" meetings in the past.

 

Obviously, we do not want (and it would not be) a bosterious drunk fest. But at the same time, most guys I know that would be willing to shell out $100-$150 pp to golf in such an outing pretty much expect to be able to have a brew or two on the course. If we are forced to hold a "dry" event, I fear it would not be well attended and would likely be cause for us to reconsider the event altogether. Then I think of the local / national headline if someone were to get pulled over for a DUI coming out of a "BSA sponsored" golf tournament, and I second guess myself again.

 

DC - I won't knock a "small" troop, but one that is too small to be considered just one patrol is really doing a disservice to the scouts. It really does very little to build a lads leadership skills when the SPL is really just a glorified PL position. If there are less than 10 youth in the unit, how does a older scout have enough younger scouts to lead? Conversely, what happens if you have a gap in membership... you can easily end up with all scouts less than 13 years of age and no one above 1st class rank. Who is going to the be youth leadership in such a troop? You pretty much would be forced into an adult led model due to a lack of age/rank diversification, would you not? A small unit does make logistics much easier. Maybe there is more accountability b/c a lad can't slide under the radar like some do in a 100+ member unit. So, there are pluses and minuses in my view.

 

Now, the troop described above concerns me for a couple reasons. The first is too much authority / control in one families hands. The second is if they are not recruiting at all... the DE might hang on to his unit numbers in the short term, but the unit will eventually fold... there are no stagnant troops, you are either growing or you are shrinking. Once the 4-5 youth either Eagle or age out, the unit will close up.

 

Dean

I say do both open invite and targeted asking of a given individual. There is a two-fold reason for this... 1) You might miss out on a leader that is just waiting to be invited. 2) When you target a certain person for a given position, you get to have a say in who does what. But, if that is prefaced with an "open invite", you will avoid the possibilty of playing favorites or "hand picking" your committee / etc...

 

Same reason I ALWAYS anounced committee / adult leader meetings at the pack show. I never wanted a parent to be able to say they weren't asked to provide input. The couple of times I had parents approach me about things (once about rules for a campout, once for the PWD rules) - I reminded them that both things had been announced / discussed at the committee meeting the month prior and the meeting topics / agenda had been published both verbally at the pack meeting and via e-mail disto list to all parents in the pack. I then asked if they wanted to chair that portion of the committee the following year. Of course I got told "no", but at least it shut them up when all they wanted to do was complain about a procedure / rule that they had the opportunity to provide input to, but chose not to until after the decision had already been made.

 

I had a parent ask me if the incoming CM was the "right choice" when I stepped down after 4 years in the job. I reminded him that I had been asking for someone to take over for the past three months. The new guy might do great, he might not - but he was the only one to step up, and if the parent was going to question this person's ability to do the job, why didn't THEY throw their hat in the ring when they had the chance?

 

Dean

 

Ea. sorry your "ideal" doesn't line up with your son's / D-I-Ls plan for how life will shake out... but its theirs to lead, the more your push, the more pushback you are likely to encounter. Its not worth it. Fins a unit in need and volunteer some time. Maybe try something you haven't done in BSA before? Go get certified as a rangemaster and go out on weekends to the local council camp and rangemaster for the visiting units, etc...

 

As someone who was a CM for 5+ years and now cycling in for round two with my younger boy as a DL.... understand that just because the current CM / SM doesn't do it exactly the way YOU would do it, it doesn't mean they are doing wrong, just differently than you would. Ask what you can do to help and how they want it done. Most leaders would love to have expirienced hands on deck to carry out the "plan".

 

I think the First Class scout as a lad who should be able to take care of himself on a cmapout and not be a burden to his peers / leader. He knows how to plan a meal, how to shop it, how to cook it, what to pack, what type of gear / shelter he needs for a given outing. A first class scout is self sufficent / independent.

 

I have had / seen a few boys rush this "trail to first class" and it only hurts themsleves and possibly the troop. My own son was a little disappointed b/c it took him a little over 18 months in Boy Scouts to get to First Class. However, I reminded him that its better to take your time and KNOW your stuff than to rush it. I repeat this with every scout I do a 2nd class or 1st class SM conference with as well. One of my lead ins in the SM conference:...

 

"How well do you know these requirements? Do you feel confident that you can TEACH them to other scouts? Lets pick a couple and you can tech them to me right now...."

 

The point of demarkation IMHO is that once you pin on that 1st class rank, you are considered a de facto troop trainer for anyone of lesser rank than you. If you are 1st class, you not only know how / what to do for yourself, but you know the material well enough to TRAIN YOUNGER SCOUTS. If you cannot, you are making your troop weak because those coming up behind you have an ill prepared teacher and they deserve better than that. Once I make it known that the expectation is you should be able to teach the skill, not just do it once yourself and check the box, most scouts self regulate their rapid accent to 1st class on their own. There is nothing a youth hates more than being asked to demo a task / technique in front of other (especially younger scouts) and not be able to pull it off. If you know your scout skills well enough to teach it, then you are confident in your skills and it shows. period.

 

I think the First Class scout as a lad who should be able to take care of himself on a cmapout and not be a burden to his peers / leader. He knows how to plan a meal, how to shop it, how to cook it, what to pack, what type of gear / shelter he needs for a given outing. A first class scout is self sufficent / independent.

 

I have had / seen a few boys rush this "trail to first class" and it only hurts themsleves and possibly the troop. My own son was a little disappointed b/c it took him a little over 18 months in Boy Scouts to get to First Class. However, I reminded him that its better to take your time and KNOW your stuff than to rush it. I repeat this with every scout I do a 2nd class or 1st class SM conference with as well. One of my lead ins in the SM conference:...

 

"How well do you know these requirements? Do you feel confident that you can TEACH them to other scouts? Lets pick a couple and you can tech them to me right now...."

 

The point of demarkation IMHO is that once you pin on that 1st class rank, you are considered a de facto troop trainer for anyone of lesser rank than you. If you are 1st class, you not only know how / what to do for yourself, but you know the material well enough to TRAIN YOUNGER SCOUTS. If you cannot, you are making your troop weak because those coming up behind you have an ill prepared teacher and they deserve better than that. Once I make it known that the expectation is you should be able to teach the skill, not just do it once yourself and check the box, most scouts self regulate their rapid accent to 1st class on their own. There is nothing a youth hates more than being asked to demo a task / technique in front of other (especially younger scouts) and not be able to pull it off. If you know your scout skills well enough to teach it, then you are confident in your skills and it shows. period.

 

Lets not forget that every opportunity media gets to degrade scouting they tend to take; but they hardly ever publicize the far more common positive actions.

 

Yeah Skeptic I'd bet this is true of the media with regards to most anything... they like to villianize anything they can to get readership or get you to turn in to the nightly news. Anything that purports itself to be "good", BSA, youth pastor, school teacher, cop, etc... is automatically a lightening rod if / when something bad happens anywhere close to the "good" thing. It makes the news that more sensational, eh?

 

 

 

On the subject of knots, which one do you prefer when tying a hammock to a tree?

first of all, I use climbing webbing, at least 1in thick, as it causes less damage to the tree. I use a timber hitch on one end, but then secure the hitch with a bowline to the standing end of the line to prevent movement / slippage... I make sure this end is wrapped at least twice around the tree trunk to help distribute weight and not cause bark damage. I do the same for the other end, but use a TL hitch so that I can adjust the hieght of the hammock. Once I have the right height, I tie a modified truckers hitch around the webbing going to the tree trunk. This will stop any slipping of the TL hitch. Both are pretty easy to undo. Only time I've had trouble is when it rained and my boy was jumping into the hammock, that caused the hitches to seize up a little bit.

We just got some new patrol gear for our Troop. One of the items in each patrol box is now a dining fly. The first thing the SM did was cut off the "friction" ties on the guy-lines to the fly tarp... "It'll force the lads to use the taught-line hitch for its intended purpose". We are toying with the idea of ripping through one of the eyelets on each tarp as well to force the use of the sheet bend, but can't quite bring ourselves to break brand new gear.

 

I don't think knots are the end-all be-all of scouting, but kind of like first aid, if you don't use it you tend to loose it.... so look for ways to MAKE the boys use their knots in everyday camping situations. Also, if your tying a taught-line hitch in the basement of a church for a requirement, versus doing it to keep a trap up over your head to protect you from rain / heat.... I bet you pay attention and remember it better if / when your comfort demends upon it.

 

Lastly, I consider the truckers hitch to be one of the most important / useful if not the most useful knot you can know. Its certainly more important that the sheep-shank. Every time I'm behind a truckload of crap on a CA freeway on my motorcycle, I say a little prayer that the person that tied the load was a scout worth his salt. (I try to get out from behind the truck as fast as possible, as I assume most DIY movers were not scouts / scouters)

 

Dean

 

Dumbass Taylor, Jr. ought to be kicked out, too. If he advanced one more rank after cheering on his litigious fatso dad it would be over my dead body.

Ding Dong, I've met Larry the cable guy.... please don't insult HIS intellect by lumping him in with these idiots in need of a village.

I'd echo a lot of what others have stated... If I'd have to vote, it would be "I like BSA". Do I love national? Nope, but without them there is no program to carry out at the unit level. I think they could do a MUCH better job at marketing and do even get me started on both my personal beliefs with regards to membership policy and more so the PR nightmare Irving has created for the brand. However, even this seems to be moving in a more inclusive, it at least DADT direction.

 

Do I like my council / district? Depends. Council can be a pain in the butt to deal with. They are second only to the US Army at fouling up paperwork / record keeping. They do run a decent (although many would argue underfunded) council-wide camp with many ammenities to include some very good ranges. The district? eh? The last district camporee was an organizational debacle that included tapping non-MBC registered SMs and ASMs to teach some of the classes because district failed to line up instructors (or the lined up instructors flaked on the camporee staff and failed to show). Never got a straight answer to that question, so I'm betting they never had instructors lined up in the 1st place. Other than that - we see the DE about once a year when he comes around to beg for his salary (FOS presentation). Thankfully, the rest of the time we are left alone to run our unit as the boys see fit.

 

Do I like my unit? Heck I LOVE my unit. I also LOVE the program, I think there is great value in what scouting tries to achieve. Their teaching methods are solid and can be used throughout life. The EDGE method is good for teachers, business, military, etc... its a tested and proven learning tool. The program and EDGE / etc... all come from national, so they can't be all bad - hence the "like" vote. The unit is where scouting happens and really is the only thing that matters. The program is developed / revised via national, but honestly - they could cease to exist and outside of new publications, national high adventures bases, and corporate umbrella which to sit - it wouldn't really have much impact on what we do at the local / unit level. The program has been honed over 100 years now. It can stand on its own. Other than minor cosmetic changes and policy changes made by the opinion papers of the lawyers for BSA national, there really is no need to change the program.

 

I have a BSA handbook of my father's circa 1955. I have mine for the mid-80's. My son has the new BSA handbook. Aside from some updated photos, some minor stuff about the internet, and small changes because of legal concerns, the requirements for each rank are virtually the same as they were 50 years ago (and I'm willing to be pretty close to those 100 years ago). BSA is not national, its the local program. Most everyone on this forum LOVES their local program.

So been an ASM for my son's troop for a little over a year now, was CM in cubbie-land for 3 years prior to that after beginning as a DL for Tiger and Wolf year. Troop is pretty well organized and runs pretty smooth with about 30 active kids with a paper roster of about 45. I just signed up and got approved via the council service center as a MBC for 4 MBs (camping, medicine, geocaching, and family life). If there is one thing I've learned in the last 6 years as a leader of one sort or another, its that each new hat you put on comes with unique challenges, roses and thorns that you might know about and many you never see coming from your previous expiriences.

 

So, I'm asking the group for some insight into what your expirience has been as a MBC. What works well for you? What do you wish you knew going in that you know now? What do you wish you would have done differently? Any major pitfalls / blindsides I need to beware of, etc???

 

The scouter boards have never really let me down, so lets hear it... I'm looking to learn from others (yours) lessons already learned.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Dean

If you don't know WHO your unit UC is, count yourself lucky. I've only met one, but as a cubmaster, he was successful in inviting himself to unit functions (most often when we were having food and wanting to each without paying as a "guest of honor"). In addition, he would attempt to tell me and the CC how to run our unit, to the point that my female CC finally QUIT over being micromanaged and some off-color female remarks he made...

 

One of my final acts as CM was to ask him to stop attending any unit functions and I had to threaten to get the DE involved to make that happen. We had a very healthy, happy little cub unit going (about 35 kids on average) that this knucklehead would have screwed into the ground if left unchecked. The only thing worse than a PAID district boss, is a volunteer district boss! In my expirience, they do very little to help the unit and only serve to stir the pot. Steer clear !!!

 

If you don't know WHO your unit UC is, count yourself lucky. I've only met one, but as a cubmaster, he was successful in inviting himself to unit functions (most often when we were having food and wanting to each without paying as a "guest of honor"). In addition, he would attempt to tell me and the CC how to run our unit, to the point that my female CC finally QUIT over being micromanaged and some off-color female remarks he made...

 

One of my final acts as CM was to ask him to stop attending any unit functions and I had to threaten to get the DE involved to make that happen. We had a very healthy, happy little cub unit going (about 35 kids on average) that this knucklehead would have screwed into the ground if left unchecked. The only thing worse than a PAID district boss, is a volunteer district boss! In my expirience, they do very little to help the unit and only serve to stir the pot. Steer clear !!!

 

I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

 

The problem with your assumption about only using 1/4 of what you were taught in day to day business, is that if you were working for another business, you might need a different 1/4, or maybe 1/8 in common, 1/8 of different material.

Yeah Perdidochas, you might be right about that. However, some of the very in depth infectious disease stuff, or the neonatal pharmacokinetics stuff, or the pscyhology stuff, etc... really isn't "needed" for 90% of day to day practitioners. The problem, even within medicine, is that EVERY sub-specialty thinks THEIR discipline is the most important. Thus, an average increase in on campus schooling of 1.5 years in the past 15 in my profession.

 

Pharmacy used to be a B.S. degree, now its all Doctor of Pharmacy. When I graduated 15 years ago, less than 1/3 of folks did a residency... now, there are not enough jobs for those who have done a residency (to the turn of another 1-2 years of education before getting paid and another 1-2 years of debt deferment)! Same thing goes for the Physical Therapists, used to be BS, then was a masters, now only doctorate degree. A BS in nursing is nothing but a stepping stone, you either get a Masters, or a NP (nurse practitioner).

 

In the medical side of the house, used to be you went to med school, then did a residency, then could go be a general practitioner. Heck, everybody has to do a residency and most a fellowship now to set themselves apart! They make the same wage as before with an additional 2-3 years of time spent, with less pay during those years, and additional DEBT (either in the form of additional loans to get by on, or at a minimum deferment of their existing loans which still gain interest for those two years).

 

The end result is a graduate who is deeper in debt and knows a very little about a great number of sub-specialties in their field. None of this, mind you, has been driven by the workplace demands, nor the state boards of ANY of these professions. It has been driven by the schools of Medicine, the schools or nursing, the schools of pharmacy, the schools of physical therapy, the schools of dentistry, etc... They market that they are turning out a "better" prepared healthcare professional, when in fact they are only turning out a more EXPENSIVE healthcare professional. One that quite frankly has NO CHANCE of ever using ALL the information they have stuffed into their heads because the amount of information is so great, NO ONE can ever specialize in EVERYTHING ~!

I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

 

I think that and the idea that a well earning blue collar job is some how less esteamed than a low paying white collar job has done a disservice to an entire generation now. I see a LOT of college graduates working outsied their degree professions because that is where the job is and it pays the same of better than what they went to school for. Folks really need to look at ROI (return on investment) on the degree field (or major) and take that into consideration when choosing a program or college. A 4 year BA degree from a private school that costs your 15K+ a year is not likely to be a good ROI, if you're only going to make 40K a year. A 4 yr BS degree from a state school that costs 20K a year is a good deal, if you can make close to 100K after graduation.

 

Far too many kids looking to do "what I love", instead of realistically looking for something close that can be "what I like enough to do for a career" and still make a livable wage at it. Maybe that is settling for less, but it beats the heck out of a 4 yr arts degree that leaves you asking, "Would you like fries with that?".

 

I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

 

I think that and the idea that a well earning blue collar job is some how less esteamed than a low paying white collar job has done a disservice to an entire generation now. I see a LOT of college graduates working outsied their degree professions because that is where the job is and it pays the same of better than what they went to school for. Folks really need to look at ROI (return on investment) on the degree field (or major) and take that into consideration when choosing a program or college. A 4 year BA degree from a private school that costs your 15K+ a year is not likely to be a good ROI, if you're only going to make 40K a year. A 4 yr BS degree from a state school that costs 20K a year is a good deal, if you can make close to 100K after graduation.

 

Far too many kids looking to do "what I love", instead of realistically looking for something close that can be "what I like enough to do for a career" and still make a livable wage at it. Maybe that is settling for less, but it beats the heck out of a 4 yr arts degree that leaves you asking, "Would you like fries with that?".

 

Yeah Packsaddle, a pretty decent article regarding the issue. However, the author fails to mention ANYTHING about Mr. Obama's follow on comments, comparing Trayvon to himself 35 years ago and the " we need to spend some time in thinking about how do we bolster and reinforce our African American boys". That statement to me is openly biased and tiptoes upon being racist.

The only time you need bylaws, is after an event that you wish you had them for.... most often has to do with money or discipline. My 2 cents is that for the most part, by-laws are a waste of time and energy. The EXCEPTION to this rule is when $$ or discipline is involved. We had out cub pack chartered as a "frineds or..." for 3 years, no problem. Then the committee decided it would be a good idea to have ISA (individual scout accounts) - i.e. accounts with funds earmarked for a specific scout based on a % of their fundraising $ brought it. Ok cool. So, what can the scout use his ISA dollars for? What can he NOT (if anything) use ISA dollars for? What if he quits / drops out of scouts and still has money in his ISA? Can an older brother transfer ISA dollars to a younger brother when he quits or ages out of the program? All those are GREAT things to have a by-law to set the rule. That way, the committee is not making a decision on the fly when a scout or parent comes forward wanting a check cut for Johnny's left over ISA account because we're moving out of state and after all he EARNED the money.... best to have your ducks in a row before you get to that issue. Maybe have a by-law on how to handle a scout who is deliquent on dues... does he still get to go on the campout / activity?

 

The second area for by-laws is in discipline. I'm not talking a boy gets out of line on a campout and needs to be talked to. I'm talking a youth has a history of disrupting / fighting / etc... or does something that is not "illegal" but might be grounds for kicking him out of the unit (i.e. shows up at campout with porn). So, WHO and HOW is the decision made on what level of discipline to take? I've seen this be handled by the SPL, ASPL, and PLC (not a good idea IMHO as kids tend to be WAAAAY harder on their peers than adults). Is it left to the unit committee? The Key Three of CC, SM, COR? Or is it handled by the SM unilaterally, or by a panel of the SM and ASM's? If the kid involved has a parent in any one of the previously mentioned adult leader positions, do they or do they not have a say in the process? Again, hope you never have to cross that bridge, but best to have some rules of the road BEFORE the roadtrip commences. You don't want to be making up policy on the fly on something like that.

 

As for meeting times / locations / dues / etc... I figure all that can be determined by the folks on the committee at the time.

 

Dean

I think the mom and dad can't tent together rule is a local council rule. We don't have it.

If we have it... the wife and I (plus every other married registered leader in the unit) has broken that "rule" for the past 5 years.... I'd double check w/ your council on that... sounds like someone has a post-doc from UMSU (Univ of Making Stuff Up).

If y'all want to discuss Politics and or the Membership Policy we do have a sub forum for that. The reason we have separate forums isn't so that people can avoid discussing the political/culture war issues, but rather that those issues will dominate the whole forum, and there won't be an easily identifiable way to find out other Scouting relevant information. So we have a nice separate forum for that. Lets keep it that way. If ANYBODY thinks by them preaching and pontificating on an internet forum like this one that they are making a noble contribution to the political causes they care about, and they really helping shape the real world events involving those causes, they need to get a serious reality check.

Sentinel, I might take a slight objection to your theory that blowing wind on these forums doesn't have anything to do with shaping real world events / causes... I know of at least one or two folks from national that troll on here (one that has posted that I know of). This forum and others like it were calling for a census so to speak for about the last 3 years regarding the membership policy criteria.... it finally happened. Now, it might be a coincidence, or maybe not, but the GOOD part about this forum is it allows for the discussion of topics that may not be kosher (to borrow the word) at a round table, or to bring up to the local council, etc...

 

Especially, outside of the Issues / Politics forum. I have asked and answered several "What would you do / How have you handled this...." types of questions. Many I would not feel comfortable asking / answering at a round table meeting, nor on a one-on-one with a paid scouter rep from district / council. That is the beauty of the internet, right?