walk in the woods

Yeah, it's interesting isn't it. If I don't sign off a scout's Scout Spirit requirement for any rank then I'm some sort of obstructionist, guardian of the flame, gatekeeper, scoutmaster. However, if a scout's spirit is questioned at a BOR then I'm some sort of slacker, doesn't know the program, worthless scoutmaster.

OGE, I will take some exception to your comments. I have indeed signed off T21 requirements for scouts and I know that some of those skills have been lost. We camp 20 days and nights a year. We provide many opportunities for scouts to practice skills. But, I can't force a scout to tie a knot or practice first aid. And, since I can't retest the poor darlings there's no incentive for them to remember a skill. You can blame the adults all you want but the scouts have to show some responsibility to the program as well.

A few years ago the company I worked for came up with an expanded definition of banned "weapons" in the work place that included knives. Like many folks on this list I've been carrying a pocket knife since before I made double digits in the age column.

Anyway, I called HR for clarification and yes indeed they did mean all knives. I was going to have to leave my trusty pocket knife at home because they were also banned from company parking lots.

I made all the standard arguments about personal responsibility, et. al. to no avail. When I mentioned it was going to require us to remove all the knives from the company kitchen she got quiet.

We finally agreed that since my pocket knife had screwdriver attachments we could call it a tool and it would be ok.

So from that day forward I quit carrying a pocket knife and started carrying systems-administration-mechanical-connector-manipulator-and-soft-material-cleaving-tool.

As for fixed blade knives, I'd take my old bowie knife in a survival situation any day over anything I can carry in my pocket.

Unfortunately, although I could get behind the idea of a Suburban Moderates Party, in a generation or so it would be the only functional party. We call them swing voters today but organized they'd rule.

The SMP candidates don't have a fringe base to play for so they get to have one message. They only need to control 10 or so Senate seats and 40 or 50 house seats to control the government. Once that happened, some politicians would switch parties because they are a moderate Republican or moderate Democrat and the switch to SMP is easy. Ultimately, both the GOP and Democrats fracture and we get two fringe parties (socialists and neocons) and one ruling party.

It's funny. I work in computers. People complain all the time about spam. I always ask them if their delete button quit working. When they say "no" I hang up.

Same principle here. Nothing wrong with supply trying to make a few bucks on the centennial. Some folks collect rifles, some knives, some coffee table books. If you don't, that's fine. If you do, you'll make a decision on the value of the items vs. the price vs. the potential availability later, etc.

I personally thing BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Accura and other "luxury" car brands are rediculously over-priced for an object designed to move me from point A to point B. Some people think they are a value. That's their choice and it's certainly not my place to deride it. Well, not anymore than I already have anyway.

In my youth, we called the SM by his first name. In my troop today the scouts call all the adult leaders Mr. __________. Sometimes it's Mr. S or Mr. E.

According to National's web site, yes. http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/2010RankUpdates.aspx

Yeah, I think it would be a mistake to reward earning all the merit badges beyond giving the merit badges. I suppose there are scouts out there that will make this their goal but it does seem a bit like mutation of the intended purpose of merit badges.

FWIW, I took a look at the meritbadgeknot.com site. It makes the mistake of linking merit badges with the rank of Eagle. The way the rules are written today a scout could earn all 121 merit badges and never make Tenderfoot if they so desired.

OGE, I don't think we're too schizophrenic, ok, maybe just a little . I just like to see a little more balance in a scout's experience. There's too much stuff for older scouts to attack beyond merit badges.

Our policy will have to change a bit with the new handbook but...

We've allowed scouts 1st class and above to sign off on requirements for T21. But, they initialed the requirements list in the individual chapter and then sent them to an ASM or SM for the official sign off in the back of the book, the understanding being the ASM/SM can ask the scout to demonstrate the skill. As SM I reserve the scout spirit discussion and SM conference sign off for all ranks and all sign offs for SLE for myself.

As long as the scout isn't getting some sort of "extra credit" from the teacher then I'd say yes for the second class requirement. For Star and Life I'd have to know more about what the scout would be doing.

OK, I'll jump off the cliff with Mafaking. I wouldn't have her as an ASM either. Technical skills aren't the issue. Teaching boys to become young men is the issue and she simply doesn't have that experience. Now before people start screaming I'm a sexist, in answer to Eagle92's question, no, I wouldn't make an 18 YO boy an ASM either for the same reason. I'd be happy to have either come in and teach a technical skill but ASM is less about skills and more about mentoring.

Give the speech every camp out, never sinks in. At least not until Friday night this year at summer camp. We walked back from the closing camp fire and found a pillow, sleeping bag, packs, personal gear all over the common area. One of my first year campers had GRAPE JELLY in his tent. He and his tent mate spent a fair amount of time rebuilding their tent only to tear it down a few hours later when we left. We had raccoons in camp almost every evening during the week just passing through. For some reason, this kid didn't get it. More importantly, one of my older scouts said, "Gee, I had bread in my tent, guess I got lucky." Maybe it'll sink in this time.

Six is fine. Forget all the stuff in the TLT syllabus about having a six layer business hierarchy, 5 or 6 ASMs, 8 member PLC, etc. Set up a patrol, have them elect a PL, appoint an APL and QM, recruit an ASM or parent, and get outside.

To those that say a six-member troop can't be boy-led I say, with all due respect, BAH! Set aside time in your Troop meetings for Patrol meetings. Or better yet, let your Troop meeting be a Patrol meeting! That is the PLC meeting and the patrol planning time. Hold your annual planning meeting with the elected and appointed leadership. No big deal.

As for advanacement being stagnant I say, with all due respect, BAH! In a new troop the SM/ASM will have to teach for a while but it's a short while then the boys will take over. Our challenge has been finding MB Counselors, but, hey, that's what District is for no?

Most of all, if you have a small troop, don't try to model yourself after all the BSA publictaions. You aren't the audience. Pick what works, apply the ideals and methods, and have fun.

Last Saturday was the Chicago Naked Bike Ride. Haven't been on a bike in a few years but that can't be comfortable. I'm looking forward to getting into the woods for summer camp this weekend because radios, internet, etc. don't work!

Been there, done that, got the bruises to prove it ! You've received some excellent advice in the thread (e.g. get trained, read everything you can, observe a functioning unit, etc.). I won't question your motive to start a new troop but will assume it's a done deal. For the record, I restarted an inactive troop in our rural community so that the boys in my pack had a local option. We started with 5 scouts, currently have 11, 2.5 years in.

Here's what went well:

1. I found a dedicated scouter to help me with the unit.

2. We got outside within a couple of weeks of starting up (early January day hike in northern Illinois, starting temp 6F). It set the tone for our outdoor program.

3. We've maintained a fairly strong outdoor program.

4. Found a mentor in a neighboring troop who was willing to help me get started.

Here are the mistakes I made.

1. I didn't demand that the parents and CO form an active, functioning, trained committee on day one. If the other parents and your CO aren't willing to step up, go somewhere else. If you're doing everything you'll be totally burned out within a fairly short time. Besides, parents who are involved can't complain! Ask your DC to assign you a UC right away and ask for their help in getting the committee on the right track.

2. We as adults didn't step back fast enough from being adult-led to boy-led. Somebody mentioned 3-6 months. I'd say that's about right, certainly no longer. Seed the boy's thought processes with places to camp and visit. My experience was I had to push the boys outside the box a bit. Still do.

3. We didn't start recruiting additional scouts quick enough. You will lose some of your original group. If your feeder pack is strong it may not make a huge difference, but plan to lose at least one.

4. We didn't take advantage of District/Council events soon enough to help ease the planning load. Go to the roundtables and find out when these events are scheduled. At a minimum you'll get 3 or 4 months of outdoor program and the opportunity to study (and for your scouts to study) other troops, both good and bad.

5. Don't get pushed into the First Year First Class advancement trap.

You will be the center of this troop's universe for a while. Delegate everything that needs to be delegated and focus on the boys. Have fun.

Yeah, lots of reservations about moving Tenderfoot requirements down to Webelos/AoL beyond say the Buddy System. Did they suggest they'd be killing off the Scout Badge thingy? I'm not a huge fan of the Scout Badge anyway, but it could be improved by adding some more Scout Knowledge beyond the First Class Badge (e.g. Who was BP, Boyce, when did Scouting come to U.S.A., etc.).

Let the Webelos do their thing, get some outdoor experience and learn about Boy Scouts but leave Tenderfoot to the Troop.

John-in-KC: You didn't say it but I will, T21 should be sequential!

atrups,

We are also a small pack in a small community. We have our best results from table sales rather than take order sales. For whatever reason our parents would rather sit outside the local gas station for a few hours than walk around town with their scout. I think it has to do with not needing to do deliveries or deal with handling the money at the end of the sale. That said, we still only get about 50% participation if we're lucky and 2 or 3 scouts make up the bulk of sales. Pareto defined I guess.

Our dens use the fast tracks and meet every other week, plus our monthly pack meeting. We use the non-meeting week for den activities (non-advancement typically) or "catch-up" time if the Den Leader is so inclined, etc.

WARNING:

Enrolling your son in scouting might result in:

- him going away for a weekend and coming back tired, smelly, muddy, wet, itchy, hungry

- him wanting to go away for a weekend at the next available opportunity

- him receiving the approval of adults to use knives, saws, axes, matches, charcoal

- him having the desire to read the map and navigate while you are in the family truckster

- him spending a week in the woods where he only wears two pair of underwear (I make them at least change on Wednesday before the parents get there!)

- him giving you a Christmas wishlist that can only be fulfilled at your local outdoor store

- him using a bucket of water and a broom to clean the KYBO in your house

- him using a rake to clean out the fire pit in your living room

- him calling a contractor to install a third sink in your kitchen

- him giving you a "round of applause" when you do something he likes

Well, we have similar stories. I served as a MC and CM for my Asperger son's pack for 5 years. About 2 years ago, working with a friend, we restarted a Troop so our Webelo's had an option in town. I'm still on the Pack committee as my friend's son ends his cubbing career but my Cub career is winding down.

Anyway, move with your son, go be an ASM and enjoy the ride. My son crossed over this past Feb. and we've had a blast in Scouting. He's making great social strides every week. Offer to help on the Pack Committee if you'd like, stay on until the other Dads get trained, or to help set up the PWD or something, to smooth the transition but make sure they know you are moving on. I don't mean to be crass, but, the vacuum will likely fill once the other folks in the pack realize you mean it.

It's been difficult to let my son be "on his own" in the Troop. Even though I'm the SM I'm trying really hard to give him the full Scouting experience. I've had to intervene a couple of times during social meltdowns but on the whole he's having a ball. Sometimes I wonder if I want him to pick up the social skills of some of the other scouts! I suspect you'll understand what I mean. Enjoy the ride and thank you for being strong for your son!

From DeanRX "The thing I don't understand is that BSA will not allow lazer tag or paintball, but will allow scouts to participate in "historical reinactments" so long as the firearms are pointed "above the heads" of the participants. Black powder muskets firing blanks at others without protective gear (especially eye protection) has GOT to be more dangerous than paintball or lazer tag... so I just don't get it. "

Yeah, me either. We were just at an event a couple of months ago where an adult leader of a Venturing Crew of reinactors fired a blank round from a pistol at a soda can to show the power of a "blank" round. The can was destroyed. That said, it was a Venturing Crew, so, without the exception we would undoubtly lose those crews. So, do Venturing Crews participating in reinactments better meet the needs of scouting than the patrol building to be derived from laser tag? Draw your own conclusions...

You should start a book! Here's my take:

Ground-hogs=Target Practice. At least they did in my youth back on the farm.

Dribbles=perfect name for a dog. My wife bought a foo-foo dog a few years back, she has a long name for him, I call him beef.

Scout Camp=still a bargain at $250. I was looking at a church camp for my boy this year that was twice as expensive for the week.

May God bless Ryan and hold him in eternity. May He pour out his healing grace to Ryan's family and friends. And may recipients of Ryan's final good deed be blessed with long life.

Our camp fees are also in the $225 range if you hit the early-bird registration date. They went up about 20% last year because the legislature in IL decided camp staff should make minimum wage. Not sure how the calculate that but regardless, there could be outside influences on the price. But $225, not bad. As others have mentioned, in our area it's a bargain compared to Y Camp, Church Camp, etc.

The camp we attend runs the First Class Emphasis program (gotta talk to them about the name) in morning and afternoon 3-hour blocks. They cover each group of topics during one AM session and one PM session during the week. For example, totin' chip maybe held Monday AM and Thursday PM, swimming stuff Tuesday PM, Thursday AM, etc. They don't cover as much as some programs I've seen, Totin' chip, nature, first aid, swimming, rope work, and a 5-mile hike. But, the scouts do have the opportunity to explore and/or work on other merit badges.

Ours are pretty simple:

June: Varies, but normally it's a picnic in a local park, awards/advancement, then a hike/fishing/etc.

July: Independence Day flag ceremony and parade

Aug: Local minor league baseball game (we get to do the color guard before the game). It's a joint family outing with the Boy Scout Troop in town.