David CO

Serious question: Why do we need the Congressional Charter?

 

What purpose does it serve?

There can be only one.  A country can only have one Boy Scout organization affiliated with WOSM, so it was felt that Congress should make that decision on who gets to represent our country in WOSM.

If there hadn't been a Congressional Charter, we would have multiple scouting organizations in the United States.

What I find interesting is that so many of the scouters who will bludgeon other scouters with every nit picking rule in the book, will often ignore and disregard BSA's most important document, its Congressional Charter.  

The BSA never expected membership to skyrocket as a result of the decision.

 

IMO, the decision to allow gays, and the coming decision to allow co-ed packs and troops, isn't because of membership.  It's because the BSA pitches itself as an organization that grows responsible members of the community, not the church.  Yes, the decision cost membership, but that cost was anticipated and deemed worth it to be primarily a community organization rather than a religious one.

I think you're right on target.  The leaders at national want BSA to be a community organization rather than a religious one.  They anticipated the membership loss, and they think it's worth it.

When my brother-in-law worked for the YMCA, 1970'1s, many of his "perks" for being the program director was he had many of the benefits given to clergy as if the organization was a church.  I don't know if that still holds true today.

When I worked for the YMCA in the early to mid 1990s, that was not the case. It was another non-profit.

Both are correct.  YMCA was once a religious organization, but the religious nature of YMCA eroded in the 70's and 80's.  By the 90's, it was just a non-profit health club.

Most people now don't even know that YMCA originally had a religious purpose.  They will remember it simply as a gym.

This is exactly what some people want to happen to BSA.  They want to change the policies, rewrite our history, and pretend that Duty to God never existed in Scouting.

I know the YMCA does have origins as a youth program, but in my experience, it has always just been a gym. Occasionally they offer after school care as well. I don't really have a judgment on whether that is better or worse, but it is the reality.

As to changes, I guess it depends on what you see as the mission of BSA. as I've said on other threads, I think boys need a place to define themselves as men without girls around- otherwise their whole identity is wrapped up in performing for women.

However, the argument that any award is changed/lessened by the inclusion of females strikes me as absurd.

The YMCA did not start out as a youth program.  The Young Men's Christian Association was started by George Williams as a group for young adult men.  YMCA grew out of the "muscular Christianity" movement of the mid 1800's.

Most people today associate the "Y" as just being a gym.  That's the problem.  Once it opened up to include more people, the YMCA lost its identity.  It lost its purpose.  It lost its values. Now it is just a gym.

I was once very involved in YMCA.  I am a graduate of a YMCA college. I believed in the YMCA, with its distinct identity, purpose, and values.  I was very much saddened to see it become just another gym.

I would also be saddened if BSA goes the same way. 

Saint Trinian's?

Wow, that is still a little harsh. You have no idea of the circumstances surrounding this young man's need to go around his Troop. Based on the instances I have read about around this campfire, most of the time the adults have overstepped their authority. Maybe the OP could have told us her son's side of the story, but she didn't. In fact, all she seems to be asking for is a little guidance on how to hold an ECoH for her son, given the situation.

I'm not sure the circumstances really matter.  I think any determined parent can win at council regardless of merit.  This has certainly been true in the instances I have read around this campfire.  

There have been quite a few threads on this forum by parents who have taken the disputed circumstances route.  I have yet to see a single instance of a parent reporting back that they have lost the appeal to council.  They always seem to win.

A bit unfair. We don't know the circumstances. But I'm not sure what she expected (or planned for)what would happen AFTER the contested EBOR. I certainly wouldn't expect any troop to lift a finger in such circumstances.

I must have missed the smiley face then. Always good to use those so people know you're joking.

I was only half joking.  I do hold a certain amount of disdain for people who go the disputed circumstances route.  

I would applaud the other three scouts who earned the award the right way, and chose to have a simple ECOH with their unit.  Well done.

Belladonna,

When you are poison, you have to expect that people will want to keep their distance from you.

Has there been a recent membership policy change that addresses cross-dressing?

My unit has never objected to cross dressing.  The kids can wear either the plain cross or a crucifix. 

The boys in our unit haven't done skits in a very long time.  It's not that we would object to it.  It's just that it feels a little bit outdated, like Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland saying, "Hey, gang, let's put on a show!"

It might also be that the Religion teachers do a lot of that role playing stuff in their Bible Study classes, and the boys associate skits with Christmas/Easter pageants and such.

for the uninitiated, what is IH? 

IH is registration code BSA uses to identify the head of the Chartered Organization.  BSA uses its own term because CO's all have different titles for their leaders.

Just curious, Jason, does this election of unit committee members take place at the same time as our general election of scout executives, or is during the midterm elections?

Pete said that the FS girls would have a different CO.

The Cub Scout unit's CO might have insurance to cover the girls at meetings, as visitors, but I doubt that it would apply to any outings conducted off the CO's property.

Spare the rod . . . .

On the more serious side, we did have corporal punishment back when I started out as a teacher.  My school doesn't do that anymore.  We are discouraged from even joking about it.

Have you stopped beating your Scouts?

Nope.  I am getting old, but I'm still a decent athlete.  I beat my scouts regularly.  

I guess I am "stupid" too.  We chartered a Boy Scout Troop way back before BSA provided insurance coverage. 

First you say that we are "horrified" by other faiths, then you say that we find them "abhorrent", and you finish it off by insinuating that we are antisemitic.

Are there any other ways you want to insult my faith based (Catholic) units, or is that it?

TAHAWK,

What!  Now you are saying that our (religious) units aren't following the scout law!  That is outrageous!

You are welcome to belong to a "polyglot" unit if you wish.  But stop insulting the religious CO's who run a scouting program as a part of their religious youth ministry.

Yup, sounds like it. On it's face it sounds like the SM is trying to up the attendance rate by putting in this demerit system. If that's why, your're exactly right @@EmberMike, that's leadership devoid of any ideas of how to spark attendance and build excitement around the program. Too lazy to work with the PLC to develop energizing programs.

That is all speculation as well.

My guess is that the dysfunctional leadership of that troop felt the need to address a perceived problem with the scouts by creating their demerit system, when the real problem was likely a leadership deficiency all along. 

As you say, that is just a guess.  I would guess something entirely different.  But that would just be a guess, too.

Eagledad,

Adults today don't allow our children any innocence.  Interesting comment.

Growing up Catholic, I was exposed to images and descriptions of brutality and torture at a very young age.  I knew what scourging and crucifixion was by the time I was in kindergarten.  I also knew about the beheading of John the Baptist and of the Christians who were thrown to the lions.

I didn't have specific knowledge of sex at that age, but I did have a general understanding of sexual immorality.  I had seen the images of wanton women and bawdy men drunkenly cavorting in front of the golden calf.  I understood the concept, if not the details.

I knew about starvation.  My grandmother often told tales about my ancestors in the Irish famine.  I also knew that children were suffering and dying in third world countries.

I also knew about death and disease.  Our bedtime prayer reminded us that we were not guaranteed of waking up the next morning.

Premise 3:  It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not a choice - we're all human beings and it's our job to love each other, not judge each other.

 

Why do we have heavy violence in Chicago?  Hint - it's not about gangs anymore - it's about people feeling disrespected and not knowing how to appropriately respond.

It's the gangs.  It is definitely the gangs. Liberals now days feel that they have to be so nonjudgmental  that they can't even blame the criminals for the crime.  

Yes, we are all human beings.  But some people are good, and some people are bad.  A few are very, very bad.

@@David CO you're right. We have no way of knowing who is telling the truth since are not involved in the primary incident. So I put myself in the new SM's shoes:

• I welcome the new Scout warmly in to the troop.
• I have the meeting with him that's been suggested above.
• We review his records and his handbook. I ask him about his BOR. Who was there? Who signed? His response and mannerisms should tell me if there's any fire where we think there's smoke. If not, I take the book at face value, trust the Scout and award the rank.
• If the Scout's answer is suspicious, then we hold a BOR for him so he can close our the rank. Then we award the rank.

Regardless of whether or not the Scout knows who signed, why would we suspect the Scout over the Scouter? I think we've all seen cases where both parties could be equally liable to not tell the truth. So let's trust BOTH parties. If the BOR is in contention just have another BOR and award the rank. Done!

If the scout had not already taken the matter to council, I would agree with you.  

Anyone on the charter needs an application, no? Either Scouter, MBC or Committee Member. Scout Parent has been gone a few years.

 

If you fill out a Committee Member application you don't need to put down a role (e.g., treasurer, events, etc.).

 

I think @@CalicoPenn has it right. That's what I have always seen with regards to unit leaders.

I believe that is still correct.  IH does not fill out a membership application.  Am I wrong?

If they signed his book, it took place.  Per BSA policy, the Scout's handbook is the official record.  If they signed it, the signatures can't be invalid. They can only be invalid if they didn't actually sign it.  If they signed it, and then act as if it was invalid, IMHO, they are lying, and should be immediately removed from the BSA.  There is no provision for stripping earned rank. That alone is a major departure from BSA rules. 

I don't know who is lying.  I am more inclined to believe teachers over students, and scouters over scouts.  Others on this forum take the opposite approach.  

IMHO, none of us on this forum are capable of determining who in this matter is lying and who is telling the truth.  I certainly am not.  

Yes, there is no provision for stripping earned rank.  I don't think any of us disagree on that.