dan

I was very disappointed when this new policy came out also. We needed around 160 shirts for NYLT, the price of the shirts more than doubled. We removed all BSA logos and trademarks off the shirts, so we would not have to increase the price that the staff and participants had to pay for shirts. After all was said and done, it was a non issue.

Gold Winger

You ask Who Hates Scouting. Reading your posts it sure seems like all you have are issues with the BSA. The BSA is scouting, if all you do is post about how bad the BSA is, what am I to think that you think about scouting?

There are things I do not like in scouting, but they are so small and trivial in the overall scheme of things, why make a mountain out of a mole hill?

Happy Scouting

Or maybe. The BSA saw that many people (not in scouting) where using their logos so they put a stop to it. And they saw all of the troops that think the BSA sucks doing bad things with the logos they also put a stop to that or a least slowed it down.

Happy Scouting

Talked to a crew that was there with some young scouts they where on a Class 1 trek the leader said they where only hiking 3 to 4 hours a day and it was pretty easy trek. So the treks can be easy or hard which you will decide when you sign up. When we where there they had 3 different treks 1, 2 and 3 with 3 being the hardest.

Here are a few pictures from Double H.

http://groups.msn.com/BoyScouts/doublehexp714bb.msnw

I live 55 miles west of Chicago. I have not seen the issue here of many 16 year old quiting school and getting a GED. But I just read the drop out rate of the local schools and I was surprised that it was around 10 percent.

I have seen many scouts come into the troop and have seen the parents expecting them to get advancement for just being there. Most of these scouts drop out in the first year. Some stay on and it is really enjoyable watching these scouts figure it out that they need to do the work and they do it. It is amazed how much they grow. To bad their parents never seem to figure it out.

I know I should not, but I cannot resist this thread anymore!

I thought you said you where Ending the Discussion?

I guess it must have really been End of Data. Or maybe it was a song?

Darn and I missed what was written before it was edited.

I will follow the GTSS to the best of my ability.

I will try to not be criminally negligent. BUT I will not worry that the BSA insurance will or will not cover me, life is to short.

But you tell me

Over and over and over again, my friend

Ah, you dont believe

Were on the Eve

of Destruction.

I went to Double H the first year it opened.

The ranger with you does some type of program every day or night.

I have also done a trek at Philmont, we did 78 miles at Philmont and 50 at Double H. Double H was harder. We did a class 3 trek which was the hardest at that time. You do resupply in the middle of the week at Martin Ranch.

The water was somewhat of an issue the first year, I have heard that it is better. Water is filtered out of cattle watering trough, which are supplied by windmill or solar, they are not little troughs some are huge, with a pond it supplies next to it. I would suggest that you take a least 2 ceramic water filters, the water had lots of algae in it which plugs up the filters quickly, the ceramic filters are easy and fast to clean, we had 1 ceramic filters and 2 filters with a paper element filter which was useless the filter would plug up after filtering about 4 nalgenes and you cannot clean the paper filter, we made sure we tied coffee filters on as a pre filter.

Double H is considered an High Desert, you will walk over more mountains than at Philmont, but the tallest ones are less than 9000'.

I loved it, the scouts where lukewarm on it.

Double H is owned by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. I do not believe that the BSA leases the land. A man from Rockford Illinois owned Double H ranch, he passed away a few years ago and donated the ranch and a few millions dollars to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. In his will he had written with the donation that the ranch had to be have some type of program for kids, which is how the BSA got to run hikes there.

I think the hunters are having more of an issue with the scouts there than the ranchers. It really is more geared for hunting than ranching. Even though it is still a working ranch. I hear that a 4 day Elk hunting trip will only set you back 50,000 dollars. With not guarantee of getting an Elk. At every watering hole we found a mineral lick and a tree stand, not sure how sporting that is. They do not want to have trails so we told not to walk in single file, we where told to spread out. We where there in the 3rd week of July. It looked and felt like a desert, I saw pictures from a crew that was there 3 weeks after us and the creeks beds we where walking in had 6 feet of water in them.

The rainy season starts in August.

A lot of trek depends on the ranger you get, ours had a hard time letting the scouts lead. I would not compare to Philmont, it is not Philmont, it is another type of High Adventure. I would go back.

We where hoping to see lot of wildlife but only say a couple of rabbits and 2 rattlesnakes. Did see some antelope graving as we where be driven to our drop off point to start. But if you take a few hundred scouts per week and send them out where the animals are not use to seeing very few people I understand why we did not see any.

We saw two different type of landscapes, when we stated it looked pretty barren a few scrubs tree lots of cactus and wild flowers, on the other side of the ranch we hiked to we where walking through huge pine trees.

Yes, I want to go back to Double H!

Could it possibly be that if you don't get what you want in a democratic way, you prefer to bail out, withdraw funds.

Why would anyone continue to support any organization that they did not agree with it?

I carry at classic swiss army knife on all scouting events. it has a 2.3" blade, nailfile with nail cleaner' scissors, key ring, tweezers' toothpick.

The only time I carry a bigger knife is if I am going fishing, than I carry a fillet knife.

Can Opener! I think soon we will see those only in museums?

I have found no reason to carry a big heavy multi tool or large knife.

At Philmont our guide said for the crew you only need 2 knives, the scouts had a real issue with this. I told them they could carry as many knives as they wanted. After the hike they understood why only 2 knives where needed, they where rarely used.

Thanks, but I do not feel like I really did much. I feel I am only along for the ride, and a great ride it has been!

I know what you mean about the special feeling, watching a boy turn into a man, is the only way I know how to describe it.

How about suggesting that they find a place to camp close to the event. The ones that want to go watch cars go round and round can the others can stay at camp and camp. And the ones that go to the races can spend a night or 2 camping.

Do you get some type of discounts for the scouts and leaders for scout day? Nascar races are not cheap.(This message has been edited by dan)

Attended an Eagle Court of Honor yesterday. This was the first scout from my den that has made Eagle. It was kind of a special day for me!

I was proud that one of my boys made it. Two others from the den have also made it but he was the first and the first to have his Eagle Court of Honor.

His parents keep thanking me, this boy has been quite a handful all the way the way through scouts. I am an ASM in the troop now.

Over the years this scout and I have had many trying times together. Of course I had to get up and tell a few stories of things that have happened (good things) over the years. At one point I said that this scout and I are like brothers and that maybe we had spent to much time together. Fours years in Cub Scouts and six years in Boy Scouts. His mom came up to me afterwards and said you two do act just like brothers.

And I really do not think the trying times where that trying as I look back on them.

"Personally I would recommend my son go to the training, but how presumptuous is that? "

not at all, it is the right thing to do if you think you son is ready and meets the requirements.

IMO it should be the SM deciding who goes to NYLT, with input from others if needed.

what exactly are the American values regarding homosexuals?

You could ask 10 Americans and get 10 different answers.

Longhaul

I am to the West of you.

If we had to charge youth staff to be on staff, I am pretty sure we would lose half of the staff. Paying for some food I can see, but if someone is willing to give the time to staff I think there food should come from the budget, not out of there pockets, BUT materials, that is the second biggest item in out budget and should not come out of the staffers pockets.

The goal should be to break even, I know going into the red is bad, but a training course should not be looked at as a money making opportunity.

I do not think that the cost is out of line, but what irks me is that the council expects that WB and NYLT will make money. Not much but they want to see a profit. I know that the staffers for WB 2 years ago had to pay 50 dollars to be on staff. They said it was for food and to keep the cost down for the participants. For NYLT we do not charge the staffers, mostly youth, but the money for the course is used to pay for the staffs food for the week.

Send your future leaders, not your current leaders. Unless they maybe a future leader again.

NYLT is a three phase course the first phase is Troop Leadership Training. The second phase is NYLT the the third is training at Philmont as Eagledad has stated.

Do not send immature scouts or scouts that need to be straighted out. They have been my most time consuming while on staff.

I would suggest that you send scouts that you as the SM thinks will make good leaders, SPL, ASPL, Troop Guides, and Instructors.

NYLT is based on a month of a life of a troop. The syllabus says all leaders including PL, but after seeing how the course is run, the patrols are run like new scout patrol with a troop guide with the patrol for at least the first half or more of the course, depending on how well the patrol is doing. Patrol leaders should get something out of the course but not as much as the above mentioned leaders.

Joni

Has any of the scouts that went to NYLT been a SPL or ASPL or Troop Guide or Instructor? Does anyone remind them that maybe they could use some of the tools they learned at NYLT?

To try and help clarify the Name it is Cedar Badge National Youth Leadership Training.

When the new syllabus was introduced there was quite a bit of talk about the traditionals and names each council used and they did not want to give them up. In the syllabus is says you can use your traditional name but you must add National Youth Leadership Training with your traditional name. So it is really Cedar Badge National Youth Leadership Training.

The syllabus also says Each of the core sessions outlined in the syllabus must be presented, with no additional content sessions.

Lookng at the link you provied, I am not sure what that council is doing. It looks like only 12 and 13 years old will get the NYLT course. Most 12 years old are not mature enough for the course.

lee

I am not big on knots, BUT if I could I would wear the 3 you are wearing now. Unfortunately I can not. To me those are the 3 mostest bestest ones!

For any other ones you will need to decide for yourself.

Bevah

Are you an eagle scout?

We stayed at the Kirtland Air Force Base when we went to Double H 4 years ago, what Gonzo1 wrote reminded me of a story. Another leader an Ex Air Force guy set the night up for us. We where met at the Airport by a bus from the Air Force and drove up to the base, I thought wow what great service. As we where going through the gate to get into the base the ASM that set this up went out of the bus to show the guards the paperwork when the guard asked him for ID he handed it to one of the guards, at this time all 4 of the guards snapped to attention and saluted him and said Master Sargent SIR.

That night the same thing happened 2 other times, I and the scouts where impressed.

So what Gonzo1 says is true makes it easier but is not needed.

I may have his title incorrect it might not have been Master Sergeant. But the other leader and I started calling him Master Sergeant SIR for the rest of the trip.

Merlyn_LeRoy

What do you consider a lot of people?

IMO it probably just a few people.

But that in my opinion and a lot is yours, I do not think there is a way to know the exact numbers.

Joined Boy Scouts when I was 12. Was a Boy Scout for 3+ years. The Scoutmaster and 2 of his sons where killed in a boating accident. The ASM took over the troop, soon after that we became Explorers. Was an Explorer for 2+ years. I did not get much from the troop, the troop did not follow boy lead or the patrol method. Had a great time in Explorers, learned to fly and many other aviation things.

Looks likes BSA is flexing its muscle. Over what I cannot tell from that letter.

I used to be a Fox, and a Good Old Fox too,

But now I've finished Foxing and I don't know what to do.

I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Fox no more!

So I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

Back to Gilwell, Happy Land, I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

I have not been sued.

I really think everyone that brings up the insurance issue is just trying to help out another leader and most of what is posted is what they have heard. All of the wonderful myths in scouting. Like the Adult that got kicked out of scouting because he wore camo. It must be true it is on a website.

Which is why I take most of what I hear with a grain of salt and want to know where I can find the info in an official BSA document.

Did you get the a dutch oven tool? Lid Lifter and dutch oven lifter.

If your are handy you can make one, of a good pair of pliers will work also.