dan

EagleWB

Would you really hold this against a scout, when most likley his troop did not have strong enough adult leadership skills to provide all 8 methods?

While reading these forums and reading some posts that think the uniform is so bad or posters that modify what the uniform is, and watching so many troops that do not wear the uniform. I asked myself why this rubs me the wrong way. After thinking about this I decided that reason that I dislike people that cut the uniform down or only wear parts of it is that I look on the uniform as a symbol of the BSA. I guess I see the uniform like the US of A flag, it is only a cloth symbol, but it means so much more. Now I understand that you can purchase the US flag from many different places in many different materials. But that is not the point of this post.

Sounds like this troop has done a few tweaks to the program. Open ended POR, arranging patrols by the SM, nothing that we have not heard being done from other posters on this board.

The following statment is the one that I wonder is the cause of the removal.

"Because the adult leaders did not take the initiative to discipline the boys, Bobby as the Senior Patrol Leader said that being older scouts they should have not only known better than to do something so foolish but to also go back on their duties as good role models to the younger scouts. He then told them that he would try and get a suitable punishment for them worked out with the adult leaders and make sure that it was carried out because their actions were very irresponsible."

After this campout did the 3 scouts that where threartened with punishment and discipline go home and call the SM and asked if scouts can punsih or discipline other scouts, of course the SM said no they cannot. And knew he had to nip this in the bud, before it got totally out of hand. So he did.

Sounds like the adult leadership at the campout did not have issues with scouts climbing on the rocks.

What type of punishment did your son have in mind? Did he suggest what it might be when he was talking to the 3 scouts? Saying something that he did not mean to say?

In scouting about the only things that we can do for punishment is removal from POR, not allowing scout to advance, (but if a scout reports this to the BSA, most likely he will be allowed to advance) sending them home from a campout or meeting, or not allowing them to attend a campout or meeting, having the scouts do a presentation at a meeting about what was done wrong. Some troops use cleaning as a punishement, not sure how this helps the scouts, but to each there own.

Some questions that where asked.

Are scoutmasters all powerful? Can they do whatever they want? Yes as long as they follow the GTSS and have the backing of the CC.

Can scouts be forced to join venture patrols?

No, but a troop can (I did not say should) do pretty much what do want with patrols.

I may be reading to much into this, but is sounds like you son is just like the SM, his way of the highway, of course he is just modeling the leadership that he sees. (The SM)

In my view, the beginning of good character is discovering that actions have consequences.

And these actions taught the troop instructors, what?

If you could post the learning by doing, youth leadership, and values and anything else that is relevant that would be great, a spinoff would be great.

Most troops that I see do not wear a neckerchief, now I am just looking at a few troops around the district I am in, but from the discussions on this board, very few troops seems to wear them. There have been many discussions on this board why troops do or do not wear them, and who should decide if a troop wears them or not.

I am curious about Scouts of Ecuador, the Boy Scouts of America uses the Aims and Methods to deliver scouting.

The Scouting program has three specific objectives, commonly referred to as the "Aims of Scouting." They are character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness.

The methods by which the aims are achieved are listed below in random order to emphasize the equal importance of each.

Ideals

Patrols

Outdoor Programs

Advancement

Personal Growth

Leadership Development

Uniform.

OUTDOOR ACTIVITIES

The above was copied from www.scouting.org

Do the Scouts of Ecuador have anything like the BSA AIMS and Methods?

Kudu

Sorry I could not get past your first sentence which was

The analogy to Scouting would be that everyone sort of knows what a "burger" or "hamburger" is.

I do not believe that this forum yet alone all of the Scouter's within the BSA could agree on what a hamburger is. Some would say it would have to be cooked over a woodfire, while some would say it had to be cooked on a lightweight stove, just to mention some issues. I think I could make a case that a "hamburger" from some fast food places are not really a hamburger.

JM_Ecuador

Not sure if know this or not, but in the BSA a hat or bandanna/neckerchief is not required piece of the uniform. They are considered an optional part of the uniform. Just an FYI. I am not getting into this debate again.

Wendy's down the street from me is advertising the mushroom swiss burger on its sign today!

HM MM I wonder if I can get a mushroom swiss burger without the swiss cheese? Would it still be a mushroom swiss burger? I am not a fan of cheese on my mushrooms or hamburgers.

Ah yes but if I only want onions & pickles on my burger at Wendy's that's all I get. You can't get something they don't have.

EXACTLY!

BUT a neighbor was on the Atkins diet, we went into Wendy's and he asked for triple hamburger, with no bun and he could not get that, so sometimes even if they have it you have to have it also.?!

I am not sure what fast food restaurants has to do with Monopoly?

I am not a big fan of ice cream, I like the stuff Dairy Queen sells, but is it really ice cream? They only sell 2 flavors they have been in business a long time.

Dairy Queen will not put mushrooms on my ice cream either!

What metaphor?

Whenever I go into Wendy's, McDonald's or Burger King and ask for mushrooms on my hamburger they say I cannot have mushrooms on my hamburger! I really enjoy mushrooms!

They will not tweak the hamburgers for me.

I guess I could buy my own mushrooms and bring them into Wendy's, McDonald's or Burger King and add my own mushrooms but they really do not like people bringing food into their restaurants.

I guess I will stick with Chilis. They have hamburgers with mushrooms on them.

IMHO the Scouting experience allows the scouts to learn scout skills and leadership at the same time, if the adults allow it to happen.

I do take exception to having an older scout teach skills to the younger scouts. I see troop say let the older scouts do it, WHY? It is not their job, if they want the job have them ask for the troop instructor jobs, and if the SPL thinks he would be the right person, he should be awarded the job. The troop instructor should be assigned a skill to be taught at meetings and outings, this should be hands on training not a scout standing in front of the group lecturing. The instructor is going to need a lot of coaching to do a good job, but is that not part of leadership? The ASPL should be coaching the instructor!

I believe the the trainer learns more about the subject than the trainers but that is part of the leadership skills being learned!

Why do adults quit? As a scouter is trying to provide THE scouting program to the desired youth many other scouter's keep complaining about the moronic rules and not following them. (This message has been edited by dan)

ScoutNdad

Before you respond again, please find where BSA says some exceptions are made for agnostics.

Just because you typed in does not make it true, The link I provided, I could not find anything that says some agnostic, I appreciate you showing me where that is.

Right here

meets these standards

I do not get it Ed the BSA has it spelled out in black and white that says an agnoitic cannot be a member, either follow the rules or not, but you are ignoring BSA policy. Same as Merlyn.

what are you planning on using for a barrel?

Compressed gas it a BIG NO NO with PVC pipe.

In situations not specifically covered in this guide, activity planners should evaluate the risk or potential risk of harm, and respond with action plans based on common sense, community standards, the Boy Scout motto, and safety policies and practices commonly prescribed for the activity by experienced providers and practitioners.

evmori

You are doing the same thing that you are accusing Merlyn of doing. Defining which rules to ignore by ones own beliefs.

What I do or do not know about agnostics has nothing to do with it.

The BSA says agnostics cannot be members.

If I do the same thing that you are doing, If I know that a member is an atheist and if I think that is okay I can use my own standards and not the BSA's.

evmori

From the website http://www.bsalegal.org/faqs-113.htm

Q. What allows the Boy Scouts of America to exclude atheists and agnostics from membership?

A. The Boy Scouts of America is a private membership group. As with any private organization, Boy Scouts retains the constitutional right to establish and maintain standards for membership. Anyone who supports the values of Scouting and meets these standards is welcome to join the organization.

I asked you this question, because it seemed from all of your posts that you followed the rules of the BSA, except for this one, and it surprised me.

evmori

You have stated that you will not tell a agnostic scout that he cannot be a member, even though the BSA states that they cannot.

I am assuming that the statements that are posted in that thread came from the BSA site. That stated an agnostic cannot be a scout.

If you can ignore policy why cannot other people?(This message has been edited by dan)

Are you saying that if a troop separates patrols during outings that is all there is to the patrol method?

And what I wrote has nothing to do with the patrol method?

btw I never said the ASPL where in command over the PL, just that there should be some interactions between them during the PLC meetings. Since the ASPL should be directing the troop instructors.

Sepearting patrols by area is a good idea, but I do not think it has much to do with the patrol method. I look at the patrol method more as teaching the patrol leader to lead. Making the patrol leader responisble for: keeping his patrol informed, on track, and watching out for them, making sure that the PLC has activites planned to help with his patrols advancments and to make sure his patrol is having fun.

Teaching the patrol leader to interact with the SPL ASPL and other PL.

(This message has been edited by dan)

anarchist anarchist anarchist anarchist anarchist anarchist

You said

so, no I won't have to give up my position...I earned it...with CPR, Wilderness First Aid, Defibrillation training...etc...

okay you did not say you where an expert you must have meant something us? But I do not know what you meant? Your good but not very?

Where did I ever say off with someone head? whose putting words in someones mouth?

My guess if you think a troop turned around it was more to the way you thought is should run and not the BSA.

How constructive is it not to answer a question?

anarchist

Correct? can you prove that? You say you are an expert but you could not even give the correct answer the board was looking for?

You are getting pretty good at not answering questions. I guess if you cannot answer the question than baffle them with bull, right?

The original poster even asked the questions in a follow up post, I think he really wanted to know.

Anyone thinks that this Board is going to change their ways are not living in the real world! They may change a little bit but not much. The fastest and easiest way the scout can get his advancement is to learn these skills and redo the BOR. Or he and his father can fight it he should get his advancement in 6 months to a year. I really think that is why the original posters wanted to know what the D was for, so he could tell his son, I bet he is working with his son on knots and getting him ready the his next BOR.

Shame on all of you who knew the answer and did not provide it.

A scout can drive another scout. As long as they have written permission from both scouts guardians.