dan

Lisabob

My sons troop only cooks over open fire, the hardest requirement for the new scouts to get is light a lightweight stove, I found it somewhat funny that the 2 troops have the same problem but only different.

It is possible to follow LNT cooking over open fire.

It must be me, I must not be getting my point across.

EagleinKY

One question is why have the older boys do the teaching, where are the instructors?

Ed

I agree with you, but in the scenario you presented, I see the ASPL, ASM, and Troop Instructors or Guide working together getting ready for a upcoming meeting or outing. This would be done away from the troop meeting, so very few people should see it happening.

But I would ask the SPL how a Instructor of Guide got the position without knowing basic scout skills.

I see it as a brush up on the skills and honing his presentation skills. Not teaching them the scout skills.

When I think of Adult association, I think of Patrol Leader Conference, JLT, BOR, SM Conference, and Merit Badges.

When I see adults teaching a scout a skill I assume that the troop is not boy lead. The adults have not trained the youth leaders to lead, it seems most of the time this is because the adults do not trust the youth, or think they can do a better job with the teaching, most likely they adult can do a better job, but that is not the point is it?

It seems to me that no matter how young a troop is (over 6 months at least) they should have troop instructors that teach scout skills. Is it not our job to train the ASPL and SPL to train the troop instructors to be able to teach the scout skills?

I believe the answer is within the Boy Scout Handbook.

A Scout is Obedient.

A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.

Last weekend the neighbor came over, we where talking, we started talking about knives and he said the Illinois law is that you can carry any knife as long as the blade was not longer than the palm of your hand, this seemed like a strange law to me, while reading this thread, I thought lets see if I can find out what the laws are in different states. I found this website. This is not a official site, so take it with a grain of seasoning.

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

I read a few of the different states laws regarding knifes, and now I have a headache!

What I got out of the Illinois law is that if you have a knife over 3 inches and commit a crime with it, it is considered a felony, if you do not commit a felony with any size knife, you can carry it?!?!?

Trevorum

Could you please tell me what your definition of totally private is? It sure must be different than mine.

Everyone else, since Trevorum is done posting in this thread.

When is it a Boy Scout outing versus a group of friends getting together to go shoot each other?

When the PLC plans it?

When it is announced at a meeting?

When a patrol sets it up during a patrol meeting?

When it is setup at home and not discussed at the meeting at all?

Where is the line?

On a campout once I was using a troop tent, it was really stinky. It smelled like mildew. I setup another tent, but I took this one home and put it in the washing machine. I used the normal cycle with warm water and normal laundry soap. I hung it in the garage to dry, I did not use the dryer, I have heard stories (myths?) of people who have used the dryer and melted the tent.

Got rid of the smell enough where you could use it. Was not perfect but okay.

The next weekend I set the tent up and ran the hose over it and saw no leaks. I did seal the seams on the tent after it was dry. This was a 4 man timberline tent.

Try it what do you have to lose?

SueM

Sounds like you are doing a great job. I think you need to keep on keeping on! You are getting there, these things take time. Just keep reinforcing what your vision is!

About your vision, have you done Troop Leadership Training for your leaders? Sounds like you have already written your vision, share this with the troop leaders (scouts) and have them write their vision for the troop. The vision they create should be driven from your vision. To get everyone on the same page.

Note I have not seen the new TLT, I am making some assumptions about TLT from posts here and how it relates to NYLT.

Some people are going to really dislike this next idea, but, I have seen it work if not done over the top.

Give winners of the patrol competitions a treat, maybe a can of soda to the winners, maybe the adults can do dishes for the winners of the competition.

Another idea

Have the PLC plan a campfire during the campout, have each patrol do a song/skit, schedule time during the day for the patrols to plan/practice for the campfire program. Make sure to really give the best song/skit a huge round of applause, whistling, really over the top. Using the patrol name in the process.

Another idea

Have the SPL and ASPL camp with the adults (which it sounds like they do). They should be seen sitting in chairs talking to the SM, having a good time, not cooking, cleaning. When they are with the adults make sure that they have time to unwind, discuss the campout. The adults should be seen as waiters and or waitress for the SPL and ASPL. Showing the rest of the troop who really runs the troop. Make them want to spend time in the adult camping spot.

You live in the midwest.

You claimed to have inside information about the issues in Atlanta.

You claimed to have inside information about the Chicago council.

And now you say you have inside information in Florida.

I am going to have call BS.

You are correct there is no free speech in the BSA.

There is nothing in the NYLT staff guide that requires a Scoutmaster to be trained to send a scout to NYLT.

It seems like a silly requirement, how does this help the scout or the troop.

When my son comes home from a Klondike or a Camparee or Camporall I never ask if his patrol won, I ask him if he had fun. The second question is did you learn anything.

I do not care what patrol wins, I do care if they had a good time and learned something.

So what you be trying to say dat.

The Scoutmaster and his Assailants (did I spell that correclty?).

Are doing a bad job.

So the BOR has to make sure the scout was really trained.

So you be saying the BOR people are really testing the SM.

EH?

Seems like a backbuttway to do it.

Seems if the COR would have got a good SM.

The BOR could focus more on what they are suppose to do.

DAT.(This message has been edited by dan)

Is this a patrol outing? No adults will be present?

I would just suggest that they have someplace to sleep, just in case someone wants to crash, maybe suggest that they put tents up somewhere away from the activities.

SR540Beaver

You main issue is that you are worried about WHAT IFS?

If you give an inch you may give a mile?

From the NYLT Staff Guide.

An NYLT course is ideal for training senior patrol leaders and patrol leaders or for those who may have those positions later. It can also be a valuable experience for other older scouts.

Scoutmasters should not allow exceptions to age and rank requirements.

I take this to mean that the Scoutmaster should choose the scouts to go to NYLT. Because he should see who has leadership possibilities in the troop.

Most course limit by either size of the staff, site size and past attendance history. We have ran 3 troops with 6 patrols, eight per patrol for many years. Last year we only ran 2 troops to make sure we did a good job with the new course. This year we are going back to 3 troops.

Firecrafter

I would have the SM check to see if scouts are attending, which he did not approve it may head off some issues later.

Every year we have parents trying to sign up scouts without the SM approval, this usually does not turn out good for the scout. The SM most likely knows that this scout is not ready for the course. Issue also seems to arise about who is paying for the course, some troops pay for the scout to attend some do half of the cost.

As some of the older posters, err I mean the Senior Forum Member, here now, I have been very vocal about the uniform in this forum. I am a big believer that the uniform is a method that should be followed. But in this case I would suggest you try to guide the scouts to shirt only, no hat or neckerchief. Take the monies saved from hats and neckerchief and neckerchief slides and have them use it to purchase everyday needs. Have you seen the price of BSA hats? If you and the scouts are set on having hats, try to find some plain ones all one color, this should cut the price in half for the hats. If you going to have a fundraiser forget the pants. Do you have any tents? Any troop gear? Mess kits? You do not need much to go camping, but you are going to need a few things. You do not need tents, you could build shelters out of plastic cloth, you are going to need something to cook in, do you have any pots or pans? Do you have the one necessity for the leaders a coffee pot?

You are planning on camping right?

Kudu

Great post but some of your message get lost when you had to include a slam with a great message.

Yes, I know it is confusing, which I why I keep asking questions.

I am going to try and look this up in the SM handbook this weekend. But something to think about not all Knots are awards, right?

The web masters are just getting ready for Daylight Savings time!

Remember to Spring Forward Sunday Night!

John-in-KC

I am still getting mixed messages from your posts. I understand that she should be talking with the troop, but one of your previous posts, you made it sound like the Cubmaster should be a dictator and demand that the Webelos leaders not visit this troop. The cubmaster should not be deciding which troops the dens visits. The cubmaster could suggest not to visit a certain troop and why. But demand them not to visit? When I was a Den Leader the parents and I decided which troops to visit. The Cubmaster knew nothing about it.

John-In-KC

I am pretty sure the Scoutmaster Hand book states that the only Cub

Scout award that can be worn on the Boy Scout uniform is the AOL award.

Where have you seen it called an award?

From what I remember it is not a BSA award, which is why the BSA does not include it as a award.

No trying to split hairs, just trying to make sure my understanding is correct, and trying to help others. If they read or hear that only the AOL can be brought over.

It took me about 2 months to get this story when my son crossed over a few! years back.

They are correct.

But the religious knot earned in Cub Scouts can be worn on the Boy Scout uniform.

Technically it is not an award, which is why the leaders book say only the AOL is the only award you can carry over.

Greying Beaver

I would have told the Dad, make it rough, he is not going. Allowing a scout to go on a week long campout who has never camped with the troop before, is not a member of a patrol, and has no scout skills, is a disservice to all of the other scouts in the troop and himself. What is the worse the dad could have done tried to sue the troop?

MaScout

Live long and Prosper.

In the thread that this message was spun off from it was stated that adult leaders had brought a bag to a campout that had a whiskey makers name on it.

Lets assume for this post it contained a deck of cards.

I thought that this was not really appropriate for a scouting event. I would never think about taking anything to a scout event that referenced a name of a adult beverage or tobacco. But I have seen leaders wearing coats with the name of tobacco companies on them, coolers with beer manufactures on them and what not.

Of course I would not wear a shirt that advertised a soda manufacture either. Yes, I know this could be taken as extreme.

It just seems that we could find better things to bring to a scouting event.

I am going to assume that no one could find any reference about gambling and scout troops? I could not.

John-in-KC It seemed to me that you where coming on a little strong. When you said

you can tell the Webelos Den Leader: DO NOT VISIT TROOP xxxx under any circumstances. You can also tell Webelos II parents "I believe the adult leadership of Troop xxxx fails to meet the standards set in the "Adult Association" method of Scouting. I strongly recommend you do not send your youth to Troop xxxx."

IMO this was bad advice, you have seemed to toned down your thoughts on this since this post started. It seems that this troop was being found guilty before any proof of any wrong doing was even found.

Is my3sons220 still reading this? Any followup info?

Exciting news Watch for the spinoff!