Compass

Freedom of religious practice is a core value of Scouting. It's a first amendment right. Freedom to peaceably assemble is also in the first amendment. The right to bear arms is more nebulous. Maybe that should be first on the table for disposal. Selective enforcement of cherry-picked portions of the constitution is not constitutional. Today's greatest evil seemingly is saying no to someone, that they can't do what they want. Restriction is bad. Anything anybody wants is good, as long as others are not impeded. Goo-goo philosophy prevails.

eisely, did you get stung a lot by wasps and hornets when you were a kid? There seems to be perverse pleasure in stirring folks up with these articles; this will rile the nature-at-any-cost contingent (especially with the 'endangered species' reference) and perhaps the anti-authority crowd (officials say it's justified). Too bad for the bear, but I'm glad the boy was able to defend and protect himself.

Someone's being pretty persnickety in defining activities and meetings, aren't they? It's like LauraT7 says, look at the different things that meetings and activities are. If the troop has a Patrol Leader's Council on a campout or camporee, does that make the whole event a 'meeting'? I don't think so. Purpose of a meeting is to plan, discuss, reach consensus about action to be taken. An activity is the result or action from that meeting. There is a certain amount of gray area here. Troop meetings might include things such as games, demos, etc. that, outside the troop meeting

Regarding quality, and how things have gotten worse: I was looking in an old-old-old handbook (don't remember if it was original or re-published), and they had pictures of boys in campaign hats doing various tasks/activities. Those hats definitely had seen some rain. They were terrible looking! Uniforms were pretty sad looking, too. Of course, those boys were probably pretty proud of themselves...

Oh yeah, KoreaScouter, I remember that old canteen. First one I ever had. Small strap that kept folding and getting smaller, and felt like a knife cutting into your shoulder the further you walked down the trail. I saw it in the catalog, too. Was tempted to buy one... Memories. It's incredible what sentiment will do to you.

Very good, sctmom. I am truly thankful for you and your son's sake that you may have found a good troop for him. We, too, have been looking and praying for another troop. It looks like we have the opportunity to start one. Maybe November is going to be a good month for all of us.

NJCubScouter, The original posted article said: 'In the oath, Scouts promise "to do my duty to God and my country." The law says "a Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others." When Lambert says the oath, he omits the part about a god.' And, in the second article: 'Lambert said he didn't come forth in his early days of scouting because, "Back then I didn't come out because I didn't have the guts to do it.' I came to my conclusions based on my interpretation of Mr. Lambert's words. You also say:

The mentally awake part's gonna get some of us, too!

Mr. Lambert is responsible for himself. He lied and he knew he was lying. Why did he lie? Because the truth would be an obstacle to getting his Eagle reward. True, the adults are responsible for their dereliction of duty, and should experience consequences of their failure. True, bless his heart, he finally told the truth. However, what is also true is he knew very well that his atheism violated Scouting principles. Every time he repeated the Oath and Law, every form he filled out, at every instance he lied. He violated not one but two major values of Scouting. But, because some repre

KS, you can come out from behind that tree. Home run answer! Of course, your mileage may vary. In almost every troop I've been in or seen, the APL position is not much of a leadership position. He is oftentimes a gopher for the PL or is just one of the guys. Unlike KS's situation, most APLs do not attend the PLC unless the PL is absent. Like KS describes, when the APL has to step up to the plate, he is often clueless. I'm not saying this is good, I'm just describing what is typical. KS may be on to something...

NJCubScouter, I appreciated your earlier post. I, too, was disturbed by the approach of the SE. Perhaps that is what it would take to appear 'fair' to non-Boy Scout outsiders. If we (not just NJCubScouter and myself, but all of us) could compare religion/faith scorecards, I doubt there would be much consensus as to what is, um, legitimate? good? righteous? spiritual?. But that doesn't matter. Scouting, as far as religion/faith is concerned, has been pluralistic, is pluralistic, and will be pluralistic. The Boy Scouts of America is not a church. Nationally, it is not a Christia

I have never assumed that the Scoutmaster (Mr. Lambert's mother) was sitting on the Board of Review, but rather the members of the BOR had similar sympathies, attitudes, and beliefs as the supportive parents in their troop today.

Merlyn_LeRoy, you write: compass: >Not going to address what I said. Out of your comfort zone, sir? No, just not relevant; when people try to dismiss discrimination against atheists by telling them to start their own atheist scouts, I point out it's not possible due to WOSM rules. But hey, that is YOUR rebuttal, not mine. Your counterargument is still absurd. Of course, you still did not address my point (and others), which is (quoting from my original post): (Merlyn_LeRoy states): ...which is impossible, since WOSM will only allow one Scout organization per

kwc57, You are absolutely right, except the part that 'no one picked up on it,' because I have been thinking along those lines myself. He was (finally) telling the truth to a very sympathetic audience.

Way cool, OldGreyEagle. I'm going to show your post to my son tonight-- he'll love it.

Not going to address what I said. Out of your comfort zone, sir?

'Duty to God/A Scout is Reverent' issues were never the only consideration here; he is also apparently pretty carefree about 'A Scout is Trustworthy.' He lied and lied and lied some more to get his reward-- Eagle Scout. Yes, he told the truth to the Board of Review (and the BOR is remiss in letting him pass). However, judging by the comments and reactions of the parents in that troop, he was probably pretty secure admitting his atheism to the BOR.

Merlyn_LeRoy writes (the first part is a quote from RobK): >If you wanted to start up Atheist Scouts of the World, with atheism as a requirement, ...which is impossible, since WOSM will only allow one Scout organization per country... So, call them 'Atheist Flower Children from Mars.' Which, of course, is part of the real point, isn't it? Why does it have to be Boy Scouts? When people suggest that Atheists start their own organization, it doesn't have to be called Scouts at all. Except, that isn't good enough, is it? Because there's a lot more to it than that.

Cool, bugle344! Can't wait to try it!

By saying it would take a year and a half, I assume you mean they are at the tail-end of their first year in Scouting, and that they have all left the 1st class cooking until the end. We had the same problem. My short-term solution to the immediate problem was to have the patrol divide into multiple parts, with each part having a boy doing the cooking for his portion of the patrol (minimum of 3 boys in each portion, including the cook). The patrol 'portions' can be increased by including the Senior Patrol Leader and Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, who normally are not in any particular

kwc57: Who makes up an Eagle BOR? I don't have the "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures" book in front of me, but it's been my experience that the the Eagle BOR is composed mainly of troop committee members with one representative from the District Advancement Committee sitting in; I think this person chairs the Eagle BOR, but I can't be sure without the book in front of me. In regards to being Trustworthy, remember that the person in question only told the truth about this matter on two occasions: the Eagle BOR and his post-Eagle discussion with other adult leaders outside

Boy howdy, you're not kidding about the other thread. I would type something up, then find my post to be 5-10 posts behind the original post. I guess I don't type fast enough, or I'm too verbose-- probably the latter.

My advice: stop feeding the Troll.

Definition of Troll: An individual who chronically trolls; regularly posts specious arguments, flames or personal attacks to a newsgroup, discussion list, or in email for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion. Trolls are recognizable by the fact that they have no real interest in learning about the topic at hand - they simply want to utter flame bait. Like the ugly creatures they are named after, they exhibit no redeeming characteristics, and as such, they are recognized as a lower form of life on the net, as in, "Oh, ignore him, he's just a troll." Compare kook.

Aaaaaaah, another "stealth bomber" adult.