CNYScouter

The District Chair is the person who told me who the DAC was - this person said that he was only the head of the EBOR.

So, there is lots of confusion who's is what in the District.

As far as I know we do not have a Council Advancemnet Committee nor a CAC.

The last person who was the CAC went AWOL for a few years and the committee fell apart.

During the process of my son finishing his Eagle I found that most of our Districts (a couple are the same) have a different policies and procedures they follow for Eagle.

I was just asked this by one of the Cubs in my Den parent about not being a karate belt loop.

Here is a link to "Why isn't there a belt loop for Karate or other martial arts?"I/i>

http://www.usscouts.org/advance/CubScout/sports/karate.asp

from the page:

Back in 1974, the Boy Scouts of America's National Executive Board decided on a listing of team and individual sports which it felt was not consistent with the ideals and promotion of sportsmanship that Scouting is promoting. They didn't say that "these sports are bad" or "Scouts should never participate in these sports" but rather "these sports have the potential for extreme harm while playing the sport and therefore we will prohibit them from being played as part of a BSA program or program option."

In previous posts I have written on how my District has rewritten the steps to Eagle.

Many of the policies are in direct contrast of what is in the ACP&P Guide and in the Eagle Project workbook.

Who sets this policy and how would you go about getting this changed?

Who at the District level should be responsible for these policies and who should be responsible to make sure that, as a District, we are following national policy (not only for advancement but other areas as well)?

FYI

I dont think we have a DAC.

The person listed as the DAC has said they are only the head of the EBOR and not the DAC.

We do not have a District Program Chair either (who would be in charge of Advancement and the DAC would report to)

District Chairman leads the District & does the following:

1.In conjunction with the District Executive and District Commissioner, develop District goals.

2.In conjunction with the District Executive, identify & recruit enough of the right people as operating committee chairmen.

3.Initiate plans and help committee chairmen an adequate number of members to carry out the functions of the district.

4.Plan (with the district executive) and preside at district committee meetings.

5.Work with the district commissioner and district executive to stimulate and coordinate the work of the district, to ensure the success of the Scouting units.

6.In cooperation with the District Executive and District Commissioner, ensure the completion of District Goals.

The District Commissioner is the builder of a complete team of commissioners for the district & does the following:

1.Identifies and recruits enough of the right people as commissioners so that all Scouting units in the district receive regular, helpful service.

2.Provides opportunities for immediate commissioner orientation, frequent basic training, and monthly learning experience for all commissioners.

3.Supervises and motivates unit commissioners to visit each unit regularly, identify unit needs, and make plans to meet unit needs.

4.Administers the annual commissioner service plan, which gives specific purposes for commissioner contact with units at designated times of the year.

5.Oversees the unit charter renewal plan so that each unit reregisters on time and with optimum membership.

6.Guides roundtable commissioners to ensure that monthly roundtables are well-attended, and provide practical and exciting unit program ideas.

7.Works with the district chairman and district executive to stimulate and coordinate the work of the district to meet district goals.

8.Represents the district as a member of the council commissioner cabinet.

9.And, attends district committee meetings to report on conditions of units and to secure specialized help for units

This is between the WEBELOS leader and the CM.

I am the Wolf Den leader for the Pack.

This is my 3rd son in Cubs and have served as a DL, ACM and CC in the past.

I am also on the District Committee and a UC (but not for this Pack)

And at one time or another have been on staff for teaching Cub leader training.

Outside our CM (60 years in Scouting this year) I have a lot of experiance.

So, when a question comes up I am usually the person in the Pack people come to.

I got caught up in this when the CM came to me saying that the WEBELOS havent finished the requirements for WEBELOS badge and would I back him up that they needed to do all the requirements before getting the badge.

At the time I didnt know the CM was talking about knowing the Oath and Law from memory and he was testing the scouts himself.

One problem is that the CM says he is a by the book guy but I think hes working off his own book.

I see a lot of this around here from our "old-timers".

Theres been some grumbling from the other leaders about replacing the CM.

But as an experienced leader I see a lot of the issues the Pack is going through are growing pains as the Pack went from 10-12 last year to around 35 this year.

In the past the CM did it all with little help (and with only 10 Cubs it wasnt a problem).

No real committee.

Were working on it and slowly getting there.

The closest this is coming to me is about 3 hours away sometime in July.

A few of us have talked about car-pooling and going to see it.

Is it worth the drive?

Heres the bottom line on whats happening in the Pack.

1) Our CM is insisting that to earn the WEBELOS badge the Scouts need to know from memory the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Scout motto, and Scout slogan. The requirements for the WEBELOS badge say that they must explain what these mean. For the AOL it clearly says to know these from memory.

2) The CM is also insisting he will be the one that tests the WEBELOS if they know it or not and he going to decide when they will get the WEBELOS badge.

Its pretty clear that the first is adding to the requirements.

I know that the CM should be overseeing advancement but stepping in and testing the WEBELOS just doesnt seem right.

I am new to the Pack and have no idea if this has been done in the past or with just this group.

Our CM is not retesting the other Dens to see if they know the Cub Scout.

It is time to have a sit down with our CM and discuss this.

The CM says he is "by the book".

I have a good relationship with our CM and have been kind of placed in the middle of this.

I want to make sure before sitting down with our CM that I am on the right track.

Is this CM overstepping his authority?

Our Pack just got done with a Space derby last weekend.

If the bodies were glued together before hand you may be able to carve, sand, glue on the fins and paint them in 40 mins.

One tip that I found off the internet that worked great is to use a potato peeler to carve the shape.

You will also need a small pair of needle nose pliers to bend the wire over the propeller.

I don't like these.

I found that my Wolf age son could do very little on his own to make one of these compared to a pinewood derby car.

Talking with other parents I found that even the WEBELOS age Cubs had difficulty making these on their own.

I have never heard of foaming "bones".

How do you make these?

I have been asked to put together the Wolf Rank Ceremony for our Cub Pack.

What is the best ceremony for Wolf (or any Cub Scout Rank you have seen?

And if you could pass along a script that would be great also.

Thanks

How does your Pack handle Cubs (families) that say that they will be rechartering but either drop right after or dont show up in September when the Pack starts meeting again?

In our Pack parents pay the first time registering and fundraising pays the fee after that.

I know that we will always have the ones that move.

Just this year what would have been the 2nd year WEBELOS den didnt return in September.

Or are a few Cubs dropping part of the cost of doing business and we should just plan on budgeting it in?

My son was finally contacted by the head of our Eagle Board and has his EBOR on the 28th.

His spirit towards Scouting has really dropped since he started the whole Eagle process.

He got pretty frustrated having to contact 2 people at our church and going to 3 teachers to get them to send in a reference letter.

At this point I don't know if the 3rd teacher ended up sending in the reference letter or it's close to the 3 month mark.

In our district a youth goes in front of the Eagle board at least twice the first time for a project approval and again for their EBOR.

Below is an excerpt from our from our Districts Eagle to Life guide for the uniform expectation for ether time:

In as much as the Scouts Eagle Board of Review is likely the most important and formal occasion he has participated in up to this point in his Scouting career, his appearance and attire should reflect this. Arrive in a neat and clean Scout uniform, neckerchief, slide and merit badge sash (this is not an appropriate occasion to wear the OA sash). Make certain all uniform patches, insignia or medals are properly applied or displayed. The Life Scout rank should be on the uniform pocket. A badge of office displayed on the left sleeve, if any, must represent the position the Scout currently holds. The merit badge sash should properly display all of the merit badges the Scout has earned and should be worn over his right shoulder.

Examples of attire the Scout should avoid when appearing before the Eagle Board of

Review:

Jeans with holes in them

Cut-off jeans

Extraneous jewelry

I posted not to debate its contents but this for the part:

the Scouts Eagle Board of Review is likely the most important and formal occasion he has participated in up to this point in his Scouting career, his appearance and attire should reflect this.

The EBORs attire should reflex the most important and formal occasion that this represents especially when they have this written.

I think that if this had been only one member dressed this way I dont my son would have had an issue with this. But of the 5 members that he went in front of, 4 are retired and should have had no problem dressing for the occasion.

My son has had 3 EBOR members tell him (and its written in our guide) that he needed to have his reference letters in by his 18th birthday or no EBOR. One even said that they were had to be in the day before his birthday.

But the head of the board told him he wouldnt hold up an EBOR because a reference letter isnt in.

My son turned his Eagle Application in Nov. 10 and hasnt had his EBOR yet.

What kind of message is this sending?

Any speculation on where this is going to be?

East coast? West Coast?

I know the Council around Washington DC is large and has an active Venturing program so maybe Goshen Scout Reservation?

Blue Ridge Scout Reservation?

The camp in WV that is the new site for Jambo?

What other camps might be able to hold this?

Not the Scout but the Board members.

The way or EBOR works in our District is that once a month 3 to 6 members of the Eagle board meet and approve projects and do EBORS.

When attending an EBOR what do your Board members wear?

Hes why I am asking.

Any Scout that goes in front of the Eagle Board is required to be in full uniform including the MB sash.

The EBOR will not meet with them if they are not.

After going in front of the board to get his project approved my son made a comment to me about how the board was dressed.

Only one of the six members had a uniform shirt on.

A couple of them were wearing some pretty ratty jeans.

If a Scout showed up the way the way the board dressed that night the Scout would have been sent home.

I have seen and my son has seen all but the head of the Eagle board in uniform at one time or the other so I know they have them.

I dont think the head of our Eagle board owns a uniform as I have never seen him wear one at any event.

All are registered Scouters.

On the way home my son said he felt disrespected by the way the broad was dressed.

He said that if he was required to wear his full uniform, he would expect that they should also (or at least be in more than casual street cloths).

Was he right to feel this way? and what would you have said to him?

Having 5 kids keeps me busy

2 are in a Venturing Crew and my youngest is a Wolf Cub

Thanks Twocubdad - I found in the Cub Scout Leader Handbook (2005) - page 18-5 second paragraph.

It says " He may not "go back" and work on advancements designed for younger boys."

At our Pack Committee meeting last night our ACM made the statement that Cub Scout could go back and work on lower ranks.

Meaning that if a boy joined at the Bear level he could go back and earn the Tiger and Wolf ranks.

Our ACM said he called our DE and that this was verified by him.

I never heard this before.

I always thought that once a Cub was in the next grade level there was no going back.

What the scoop?

jblake47-

If you don't use the Venturing structure, don't do Venturing awards and don't go to Venturing events why bother registering as a Venturing Crew?

I became he UC for this crew as my son used to be a member of these Crews but lost interest when they moved meetings (when they switched to outdoors) to a time he had other commitments.

To answer some of the questions:

What does the crew president have to say about this?

This is a 100% adult run unit. There are no youth officers.

if the president is not meeting WITH the committee or addressing the CO at some point in the year, in my opinion, you don't have a crew.

Crew committee doesnt meet. As far as I can tell they figure out what adults are doing when whoever shows up to meetings.

As a side note - no parents are involved as leaders in this crew - only members of the CO.

Meeting indoors in the winter just because its winter would be a show-stopper for my youth.

As these are shooting crews and with the amount of snow we get meeting outdoors during the winter just isnt possible

Have you suggested the crew attend a Council/Area VOA event?

Our council doesnt have a VOA. There is just not enough interest to start one.

The same with a council Venturing event our Crews just arent interested in attending.

2 years ago there was a Area Venturing event. None last year but I hear they are trying to put one together for the spring.

When my son was in this crew I asked the adults running the crew about attending Venturing events. They are only interested in shooting and shooting only and will not even bring up attending any type of events to the youth in the crew.

As far as training is concerned in two years when the BSA makes it is mandatory for any leader who has direct contact with the kids that problem will take care of itself.

Our council has defined a direct contact leader for a Venturing Crew to be the Advisor and Associate Advisor. This crew has already figured out they only need to get one person trained (advisor) and just register everyone else as a Committee member who are not required to be trained. These committee members can then continue working with the youth without training.

Local Tour permits

I know when my son was in the crew they tried to set up a contest between the crews and another youth group, no one showed from the crew. I dont know if they have tried to do this again but as I have been told not to bother them with all the scouting paperwork I would guess that they just dont bother with tour permits.

Might as well let the charter lapse

Not my call. As I said before most of the District Committee would agree but its not their call either.

My biggest conflict is that we have a new Council Commissioner and new SE who are saying that units like this will be dropped.

As a UC I dont want to see these units dropped and need to at least put in some effort (Ive only met with them once) to advise them and offer my assistance what is required to keep them chartered.

Why is this a Crew?

Numbers, numbers, numbers!

These units were started by a previous DE who only concern was to start units any way he could.

I dont think this DE really spent any time discussing the Scouting program with the CO and sold the COs with the BSA insurance.

Most District volunteers think that we should have never registered these units as Crews.

This crew is actually registered as 2 crews but function as one.

These crews have 2 different COs with the same IH/COR - Same Advisor Same CC a few Different CMs

These Crews meet indoor at one CO during the winter and move outdoors and meet at the other CO when the weather gets nice.

If a youth joins one unit they are registered in both Crews.

My DE is fully aware of this but he will not drop these units and lose the numbers.

It seems that the Advisor (the one that will be gone for a year) uses the well drop the units if required to do any of the Scouting stuff (training, paperwork, YPT).

My council is in the in the pilot program for manditory training.

I thought that requiring training would help get some of the adults trained.

They already figured out that for a Venturing Crew only the Advisor needs to be trained.

They can then register everyone else as a Committee Member (who isn't required to be trained) and the crew can continue.

I think that if the adults that are running things can see some success using some of the Venturing program they might be willing to slowing start incorporating more and more.

Before the holidays I posted about the Crew I am a new UC for.

This is the crew whose Advisor has been deployed overseas for the next year and has no trained leaders.

Currently the crew is being run by the COR/IH and is 100% adult run.

During my chat with the COR/IH an issue brought up was the high turnover this crew has.

Most youth take 2 meetings worth of safety training, sign up, shoot 2 or 3 times, and then dont show again.

The impression I got is that these adults dont see the value of the Scouting program; however none really understand or have ever seen what the Scouting program really is about.

My thought is to let the COR/IH know that I (or the BSA) can help with improving the turnover rate.

I know that the lack of training is a big issue but there is no way any of these adults will sit through 5 or 6 hours of Venturing Leader training.

I am hoping that working on this one issue may open the door to show these adults what the BSA program can offer them.

I am talking with my DE and DC before meeting with them again but could use some ideas on Where to start?

Me too.

I just now was able to log into the site

The last post I could find was was Sunday, 12/27/2009: 12:27:22 AM.

I don't remember the last time I could log in but for me it's been a few days and before Sunday.

It's good to see Scouter.com back up and running

Thanks for all the Advice so far.

The one person I was told by the Advisor I should absolutely not discuss the mandatory training (our council is one of the pilot councils for training) or any other Scouting paperwork with was the IH.

The Advisor brought the training requirements up with the Crew adult Leadership and the CO and was met with resistance.

Outside of the co-ed leadership question (which isnt an issue) I dont really see any YPT nor safety issues with this unit. All the adults working with the youth are NRA certified instructors just none are willing to even take BSA YPT.

There has been a lot discussion about this Crew at the District level.

Most of the District people think that this unit should have never been chartered as a crew and was better suited as an Explorer Post (or not chartered at all).

This crew was started by our previous DE whos only concern was to start as many units as he could any way he could.

Our new Council Commissioner has been pushing our Commissioners Service in three areas one being unit visits the 2nd is getting unit Leadership trained and the 3rd is getting more leaders signed.

There is another thing that I am not sure with this unit is the Advisor leaving for a year. He is the only one that has had any type of training (all Boy Scout) and wont be around.

Any suggestions about this?

They meet again this Saturday morning. Right now my plan is show up, introduce myself and offer them assistance if they want it.

I think this unit needs to be discussed at the next District Committee meeting.

Thanks for the correct answer - there is no requirement for Co-Ed leadership.

This crew is going to be tough to handle.

When I called the Crew Advisor to arrange a visit he told me that I couldn't visit the unit unless he was going to be there.

He then told me that he was being deployed to Afghanistan (he's Navy Reserve) for the next year!

He wasn't real happy when I said that wasn't an option and I would be visiting.

No trained leaders and they are refusing to take any type of training.

I was told by the Advisor if I said anything about manditory training (or any of the other Scouting paperwork) to them they would be dropping the Scouting program.

They refuse to sell popcorn and do a FOS presentation.

My son used to shoot with this crew 2 years ago.

He became bored after only a few months of doing only one thing.

This crew has gone from 40 registered youth when my son wentto 8 last year

About the only thing this unit is doing is beiong a number for our DE.

I am the new UC for a Venturing Crew.

They have been around for 3 or 4 years.

In looking over their charter they are a co-ed crew but do not have co-ed leadership.

During my Venturing Leaders training it was always stated that co-ed crews need co-ed leadership.

Ive looked through the all the documents I have about Venturing and dont see this written anywhere (but perhaps I missed it).

The only thing close is that the Guide to Safe Scouting says that co-ed overnighters need co-ed leadership.

This crew only gets together 2x a month to do there thing (shooting) and as far as I have seen does not do any overnights nor ever plans to do any.

The council chartered this crew and re- chartered this crew for a few years now without co-ed leadership.

Where in the BSA literature does it say co-ed crews need co-ed leadership?

Or is this just another urban myth?

Is this a YPT issue that should be brought up?

Or is this a non-issue since our council re-charters every year?

As a new UC I dont want to come in and tell them they are doing it wrong but this is a possible YPT issue

I have enough other problems to deal with this unit (the mandatory training) without raising another issue with them right away.