cjmiam

Laurie, That was an absolutely excellent post. And believe me, I admire you and all of the volunteers across this country that care about something greater than themselves. To be honest, I didnt give the necessary thought to how much this must be affecting the volunteers of your council, your program, and the Scouts. And they are normally my first concern. I hope you can see that I think no less of the program that you offer or the people in the middle of all this. I took a step back and considered what if it was happening here. It certainly would be very disheartening. Have stre

But what if it turns out to be just a natural act of love inherent in certain human beings from birth? And if its consensual and the parents give permission whats wrong with that? In other words there are no victims. Ah yes, I see an entirely new culture starting. A culture with no moral absolutes. A culture where you make up the rules as you go based on whats convenient. A culture of if it feels good, do it. Oh wait, that culture is already here!

OGE, "... but do not begin to tell me that our society will ever accept pedophilia as "normal"." I wonder if someone wouldn't have said the same thing about homosexuality oh say maybe 50 years ago...

Oh good! I see the lifestyle issue is alive and well here. My question seems to have gone unanswered in the other thread. Maybe I can be enlightened here. If tomorrow the evening news reports that a Berkley scientist has determined that through careful studies, he has determined that he has been a pedophile from birth, does that mean he gets to join the Boy Scouts too? We certainly dont want to discriminate against him now do we? And if he was born with it, then it must be okay. There certainly isnt a problem with him being around children, because if he was born that way it must be nat

twocubdad, I apologize for the historically misleading statement. I meant that the law of our land is founded in the fundamental God given rights recognized when our forefathers established this great nation.

Im well aware of the fact that there are many good teachers out there. Im also aware of the fact that many teachers are involved in Scouting. If you are a professional licensed teacher doing your job without a political agenda, I thank and applaud you and apologize if it seems I cast you all into the same lot. Unfortunately thats how I feel sometimes when I hear the absurd things going on in the schools today. Being from a mid-size town, we had a choice in education. The private Catholic school was well established, but my parents strongly believed in public education and I wasnt g

CrewGirl, not to sound impolite, but did you read a word I said or what anyone else here has said? Or did you just chime in with a question and then announce your opinion? If people are in Scouts and gay there is no need to be sad, just leave. No one is stopping them. They arent being held hostage. Were not asking them to hide if it bothers them they can just leave. I already stated that I would accept homosexuals. But I dont want them camping with my son. I dont want them leading what I believe is a character development program based on a well established unambiguous set of

Judge Moore solemnly swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States and of the State of Alabama. The later specifically calls for his favor to God. The first establishes every humans unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness endowed by their creator, which is the very foundation upon which our laws were established. He is simply upholding his Oath of Office. I see nowhere, where he has demanded others to follow his specific belief system. At no time were my rights discounted. Its illogical to call for a duty to God, but disallow it as soon as an individual sa

Packsaddle, you sound like a reasonable person. I bet I would enjoy sitting in on one of your courses. My main issue with the public education system is rooted in what I feel is an overall leftward bias. Theres no doubt that there are probably some right wingers trying to indoctrinate youngsters as well, but like the media, I think the liberals have won the majority in education. They select what they want people to hear depending on whether it fits their political agenda. I remember my social studies teacher in 10th grade cutting the American flag into pieces, throwing it on the floor, a

Bob, I noticed that you made mention of using the Scouts Social Security number. I have a stockpile of old applications and intend to continue using them. And when the time roles around that I must use the new ones, I plan to cross that off the application. I dont believe that the Boy Scouts of America needs to know a childs S.S. number. If there is an insurance claim I can then see a need, but other than that I dont believe its necessary. Am I missing something? Why cant the name, phone, address be cross-referenced for dual registration checks? Is it just me or has the BSA gone too far

And further it should be noted that youd never see the establishment clause applied to different religions, just Christianity. It was not our founders intent that students in our schools be shielded from religion. Some kids have even been prohibited from wearing crosses or bringing the Bible to school. They have been required to take sexual education classes totally against Christian values. Some school districts even had the audacity to call The Pledge of Allegiance and the National Anthem offensive to some and ban it. If these arent direct attacks at a certain group of believers in an a

Well, how about my Healthy American professor that ridiculed me and laughed off my spirituality and devotion to God in a lecture class of 250 students. When he told me to use some logic, what do you think he was driving at? When my high school science teacher wouldnt allow my short answers on tests to include my opinions about creation, what do you call it. And please remember, I did not leave out the answer she wanted. I simply embellished what was the correct answer with my beliefs and she still marked it wrong. If thats not closed mindedness and discrimination in an attempt to create a

Trail Pounder, ya know you might have something there. After re-reading some of that stuff one has to wonder. Well, I do see certain similarities between what the gay rights activists did in their early years of establishment to what the boy love activists are attempting to do now. A constant argument homosexuals use is that they were born into it. Homosexuals slowly tried to change public opinion into believing that they had no choice in the matter. They got it removed from the list of psychological diseases. They waged a major public relations campaign to appear as the vict

It seems amazing to me that liberal teachers and professors are able to use our public schools with free reign, to indoctrinate our children with anit-war sentiment, unAmericanism, atheism, sexuality acceptance programs and condoms. Where is the tolerance from these so-called teachers? Where is the acceptance of different views from these teachers? Where is the public accountability? There is none! And yet my tax dollars must pay for what they have the audacity to call education?! Go visit the classroom of a liberal professor and you will soon learn the true meaning of discrimination and

My previous posts on this thread are somewhat vague and I do not intend to reread the entire thread. However, one thing is for certain, my opinion and thoughts remain the steadfast. As Americans, we are all blessed with an awful lot to be thankful for. We could have been born in a country where the government determines what we think, with whom we associate with, what we say, where we work and just about everything else we do. But thankfully thats not America. The Land of the Free provides each citizen an unalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Our Constitution p

Well, I know I've read about this before, but I guess maybe someone here could provide more insight. Some Amvets were at our district roundtable tonight. They brought up the fact that our BSA shirts have the wrong flag on them. We are wearing left shoulder flags on the right shoulder. The flag is to be worn and displayed on planes etc to appear as if it were blowing in the breeze. I always knew this was the case, but never thought much to argue the fact or question why. If anyone can answer this I'd appreciate it. Thanks, cjmiam

Im glad to hear that everything worked out. Im sure that this was a very difficult experience. Everyone and everything has a purpose. This happened for a reason and I hope that all of us no matter where we stood on the issue use it to the betterment of Scouting. Please extend my best wishes to your son on his future in Scouting. For A Better Future Through Scouting, cjmiam

I think chartered organizations are an excellent concept of the BSA. What a great way to get community support and spread the spirit of Scouting! I wouldn't be surprised that most chartered organizations don't take a real active role in the troop program. However, I think it would be wise to find one that at least takes interest in what you are doing. If you aren't affiliated with a church, then I'd recommend that your next stop should be your local Lions club or American Legion. These groups have demonstrated steadfast support of Scouting and its ideals for many years, locally and n

Alright, here's a question for all of you orienteering gurus. How do you find a backazimuth? What is a backazimuth? I know someone out there knows this one and good luck teaching me Thanks for your time, cjmiam

Double Eagle, Your courage and helpfulness is admirable. However, many parents dont have a lot of time to help one troop let alone two. Her opportunity is to help her child develop to his fullest potential NOT fix a troop. I recommended filing a small claim action, because that is our countrys legal route to resolve a dispute such as this. She has gotten nowhere but most likely closer to a statute of limitations clause. I recognize the implications that type of legal action may have on a troop, however she would either win or loose by the judgment of an unbiased, professional

Yaworski, Being a team player, supporting a common goal, learning the importance of loyalty and self-sacrifice are far different than trying to save a sinking ship. It seems to me that the unit is not providing the promise of Scouting. It is every parents right to do what he or she feel is best for his or her child. Wouldnt it make sense to shop around for the best unit just like you would for a car or home? Why would anyone purposely put his or her child in a position to fail? This isnt about avoiding personal responsibility! This is about perseverance and rising to the occasion.

Double Eagle, That is absolute hogwash! This parent doesnt need to worry about saving the troop. She needs to do what is in the best interest of her child. As a Scoutmaster I would never expect a parent to put the troop before what is in their childs best interest. The failing troop is NOT her problem! The Scout earned his fat money fair and square. The far-reaching implications this type of untrustworthiness extends beyond just being a matter of money. What kind of precedent does this set and what does it teach the Scouts? Work your tail off just to have someone take it all away

Havent you read any of these posts? You ask why so quick to sue? Because she has tried- in her best spirit she has tried. Im sorry, but I dont believe using our legal system is taking the low road. I dont believe that using our system of justice sets a bad example to our Scouts. I think some individuals on this board need to walk a mile in someone elses shoes. If this happened to my kid, I would use every legal avenue possible to make things right. And maybe I wouldnt win, but at least I would know that I tried in a lawful and peaceful manner.

Well, actually Bob my first suggestion was small claims court. I do believe that is the perfect place for this or else take it to Judge Wopner. Im sure hed love it too. The point is that we have a place for this type of dispute to be settled lawfully. Why not use it? Sure, maybe it should be a last resort, but I believe the parent has given it her best shot and is at that stage. The comparison wasnt between $500 and the sex abuse scandal. The comparison was between what some of the people seem to be suggesting on this board and what the Catholic church did- lets just forget it and s

Suing may be perceived as negative, but that is not the Scouts fault. Your description of the situation is a perfect example of why an outside arbiter is necessary. This is a good example of why we have our court system. This is the same orderly fashion that we teach in the Scouting program when we disagree with our laws. We do not disobey them, but instead work to have them changed in a lawful and orderly fashion. The parent believes her son has been unfairly deprived of money that is his. The unit believes differently. The alleged injustice has already been done. I am sure that