Chippewa29

What? Now I'm going to have to change my username. Actually, I think the change is going to be official only. There are so many lodges that go by their number. Does anyone thing Unami is going to stop putting number 1 on their flap? A better solution would have been for the lodges merging to have to choose either one of their current numbers (most would choose the lower one) or be assigned a new one from the back of the pack. Once a number is gone, it is gone (no reassigning).

If national was really having a problem with lodges not merging when their councils do, then they just need to say either merge or we won't recharter you. It shouldn't be such a problem that national would have to take away a great tradition going back almost 90 years.

You can't stand to go on vacation with anything less than 15-20 people.

Also, when you do go on vacation, you make up a duty roster and try to organize everyone for flag raising in the morning.

In recent years, when we've held our troop planning conference using all the Scouts in the troop. The SM Handbook says that the PLC should do it. We've let all the Scouts participate in the past since we've had smaller numbers. However, we're looking at having 15-16 Scouts go on our winter cabin campout in a couple of weeks. That is usually where we do our annual planning. When we only had a few Scouts, it worked out fine. However, last year we had eleven Scouts debating about the different activities and it got pretty crazy. Add in 4-5 more, and I think it will get way too out of hand for our SPL to handle.

I'd like to see if I could get some ideas for how to still involve all of the Scouts in the troop, but have the final decisions made by the members of the Patrol Leaders Council.

I was fortunate to receive a new pair of hiking boots. The last new pair I got was seventeen years ago (I was a frosh in high school at the time).

Something that I was very excited to get and kind of Scout related is the Indiana Jones DVD set. Not only is there a scene of young Indiana Jones as a Scout, but seeing these movies always gets me excited to go out with my troop and have more adventures.

Thanks for the responses. Like Saltheart posted, an ASM is there to assistant the SM in guiding the Scouts in the troop. If the ASM isn't doing anything, then they aren't doing their job and shouldn't hold the position.

Many of the adults in my troop are reluctant to take on defined responsibilities. They are afraid that they'll have to put in as much work as I do (I really don't do that much, it just seems like it). They don't understand that if more people took on defined roles, then there is less work for each individual to do and more will get done.

Our former COR descibed it like this: Most people like to have a piece of pie with a meal once in a while. Some even like to have seconds at one sitting. However, if you had to eat that whole pie by yourself in one sitting, then you'd lose the joy in it.

Also, when you eat a pie, you slice it up. When a troop doesn't have defined responsibilities, then its like a bunch of people standing around and eating the pie without cutting it up or taking it out of the tin. Everyone would agree that a better way to eat the pie would be to slice it up and give everyone a piece.

One more part to this pie analogy. If you have enough people wanting pie, then everyone still wants more when they are done. That is when you bring in another pie (add more programs to the troop, etc.)

The idea of paying $10 to carry someone on the roster isn't the problem. The problem is I have no active ASM's. I'm also looking down the road. If I have someone who is an active ASM, then becomes inactive, I don't want them to say, "but you let him stay on as ASM and they aren't active!" My expectation is that when someone signs on as ASM, they are their to actively help the troop.

I've personally seen Scouts get their Eagle at 13 and continue to have very active and productive Scouting careers until the "age out" at 18. I've also seen Scouts earn their Eagle early (13 or 14) that totally lose focus and becoming a bad example for younger Scouts. A lot depends on what the focus of the troop's program (and also the Scout's priorities). If the troop emphasizes advancement for the sake of advancement, then the Scouts will see the troop as only a place to add the Eagle rank to their college resume. If the troop emphasizes character building and having a great experience (you know, the actual aims of the BSA), then they will continue to stay active even after they earn their Eagle.

For my self, I made it from Arrow of Light to Life in 16 months (minimum time back in the mid-80's). I did all the work myself and my troop may have done one merit badge at troop meetings. I (along with a few other Scouts in my troop) was very motivated and I didn't have any problem working on merit badges on my own to earn them faster.

I took 62 months to reach Eagle from there. During the time I was a Life Scout, I went to three Jamborees, became a Vigil Honor member of the OA, and had countless wonderful experiences. I stayed involved in the program because of the experiences I had and the friends I met, not the badges I earned.

In the twenty year history of my troop, we've three alums remain active after turning 18. Of those three, I am the only one that got his Eagle. The other two stayed in until they were 18 but never got the work done. However, they loved the experiences they had and wanted to give back. The other twelve Eagles in our troop's history went off to college and were never active again.

If a Scout can earn his Eagle at age 13 while doing the work himself, enjoying the experiences along the way, and acquiring the traits we normally associate with an Eagle Scout, more power to him. Its not mine or anyone else's place to judge that. Different people are ready for different things at different points in their lives. Had I become an Eagle at 13, I probably wouldn't have appreciated it as much as I did getting it later on.

When speaking with our unit commissioner a couple of weeks ago about our charter, he asked me where all of our ASM were. We currently have five ASM on our roster, yet none of them are active. They include three troop alumni who have been active at some point (but not recently), a troop dad that got trained but helps out only every once in a while if he has time, and our former Scoutmaster (who stops by maybe once every couple of months but doesn't actually do anything). In short, we have no active ASM.

I recently sent a letter to each of the five ASM with two options: take on some regular responsibilities (they could have a say in what their responsibilities would be) or "resign" as an ASM. I mentioned in the letter that if they wanted to stay registered in the troop, then we could register them as a committee member.

My reasoning behind the request was that I feel an ASM should be an active position where they have regular responsibilities. At this point, all of our ASM's are honorary and I don't think we should have honorary positions. For our troop to grow and prosper, we need active people in those positions with defined responsibilities.

The first reply I got back (via email) was from the dad in the troop. He said that he wanted to discuss some ideas for responsibilities he could take on.

The second reply was from our former SM. He said that it was not my position to decide who was and who wasn't an ASM. It was the job of the troop committee. He also said that there wasn't a problem with having people in honorary positions. He also implied that we should just do things the way they were always done in the past.

What are the opinions of other forum members? Also, what are some duties that your ASM's have? BTW, I looked in my SM Handbook and I couldn't find anything on the subject.

Wow. That's a lot of questions. I'll do my best to answer them.

We have 16 Scouts registered and fourteen I'd consider active. They are currently set up in two patrols. We go to summer camp in council and attend our district's fall camporee. Yes, we support FOS and sell popcorn. The only other fundraiser we've done in the past few years is a bottle and can drive.

We use New Scout Patrol entirely for the first six months. After six months, if there are open spots in the previous patrols, the new Scouts fill those spots. If there are enough Scouts to add a strong extra patrol (meaning at least 6-8 Scouts after the other patrols have been filled), then we keep the new Scouts in the New Scout Patrol. We are currently trying to use the FCFY program, but without much success. Different Scouts in the troop have different activities so that they aren't as active during certain parts of the year. Some of our Scouts play baseball and are only at half the meetings in the spring (full time the rest of the year) while others do a fall activity the makes them part timers for a couple of months.

We do not have a Venture Patrol at this time since we only have a couple of 14 year olds and the rest are younger. We are trying to develop feeder packs, but there are six other troops in a 15 minute radius of us along with 15 packs. Things tend to switch around quite a bit come February. We usually get one or two non-Webelos a year. They are always the friend of a Scout in the troop who is tired of missing out on his friend's adventures.

We just got a new unit commissioner a couple of months ago and he is great. I could not be happier with the support he is giving us. Our troop committee is strong. There are over twenty members (every Scout has at least one parent, sometimes two signed up, as well as a few active alumni parents).

We are slowly but surely transitioning to a boy-led troop. Its been a struggle, since our troop was for years dominated by adults. However, the kids are starting to get more of a taste of what needs to be done and are picking up the ball more often.

I am in a similar position when it comes to ASM's. Technically, I have four ASM's (three of whom are trained). However, none of them are active. One has sons in the troop and claims that he is an ASM, but he might be at one meeting a month (when he attends the troop committee meeting) and might go one two outings a year (he always has excuses why he can't be at other ones). The other three are either former SM's or troop alums that were at one time active.

I am planning on writing to each of them in the next month to ask if they wish to continue as Assistant Scoutmasters. If they do wish to continue, then they'll to need to pick up some regular duties and follow through on them. If not, then we'll either register them as committee members (that will be the CC's discretion) or drop them from the list.

We don't allow any electronics devices on campouts other than flashlights. In fact, I try to get the adults to leave their cell phones in the car. My attitude is if you are going to get away, then really get away. If there is an important enough emergency, then you will be found soon enough.

My troop hasn't let kids have the electronic stuff for years. The only exception was our once a year "outing" in a cabin where we do our annual planning. The first year I was SM, kids brought gameboys, earphones, etc. Things went great and the only arguments had were by the Scouts while they were using those things. In addition, like has been said before, a couple of the kids didn't interact and buried themselves in their games.

I put an end to that. Now, when the kids have "free" time, they play chess or Yu-Gi-Oh or Risk or some other game that requires interaction. The adults love to play Euchre or other card games. We have a great time and get to interact quite a bit.

On a side note, my family plays a lot of cards and board games at holiday gatherings. We interact more during that time than we do the rest of the year. At one big family gathering, about half the family (mostly men) will sit around the TV watching football while the rest of us play cards. The football crowd is usually bored to death while the game crowd is usually laughing and having a great time. I'm a big proponent of playing games so we can actually interact as humans.

I have bought on Ebay on and off for 3-4 years. I've found the selection to be outstanding and if you watch the site enough, you can get an idea of what people are buying just to make sure a dealer (outside of Ebay) isn't getting more margin that he deserves. I've gotten both Scout Handbooks and Scoutmaster Handbooks dating back to the mid-20's for a good price (the biggest tag was $45 for a two volume SM Handbook in great shape from the 40's). Everything else was between $15 and $30 each.

I've also sold off a good chunk of my patch collection the past year and a half. Of course, I've kept all the patches I've personally earned. I had over 300 CSP's and 200 Flaps at one point, several dozen JSP's. I realized last year that I hadn't done anything with collection in a decade. I picked what I really wanted to keep (I was pretty liberal in that area) and have sold most of the rest and gotten some decent money for it. Not enough to pay off a house, but I at least paid off a credit card and cleared out some shelf space.

Before you buy or sell anything, look at the different auctions for a few weeks so you can get a feel for what you are doing and avoid some costly mistakes.

I've got an official BSA Silva compass I bought for my first summer camp twenty years ago. It has been on countless adventures with me and is still in perfect working order. A great investment for $6-7.

I have two perspectives on this. The first is for the short term. Some parents think it would be fun to bring little six year old Johnny out on the campout, especially since he loves to hang out with his 12 year old brother. Also, that would give mom a chance to have a weekend at home alone to relax.

However, what a lot of parents don't realize is that the younger child won't want to hang with dad while older brother is off doing Scout stuff. We've had parents bring younger siblings along and it ended up slowing down the hike or activity. Also, the little ones tend to want to be right in on the action and have a chance to get hurt. The only reason I see for a parent to need to bring along a younger sibling is in case the troop must have that adult for two deep leadership and that same adult has no other options for the weekend (neighbors, friends, grandparents, etc.) One younger sibling in camp may not be a big hassle, but three or four could get pretty crazy.

That brings me to my second point. There is also a long term perspective to a younger sibling joining the troop too early (meaning they go on activities before they are old enough to register in the troop). One of our Eagle Scouts had two older brothers in the troop. He started coming on a couple of campouts a year starting at age five. Some of the campouts he was there because his parents had to be the two deep leadership or the campout was cancelled (I was off at college back then and not very active).

By the age of nine, he was attending about half a dozen campouts a year and was like a regular troop member. He was never a problem and the scouts liked having him around. When he formally joined the troop at eleven, it was kind of weird. Of course, he shot through the ranks, had his life before turning 13 and got his Eagle at 15 1/2. He really enjoyed Scouting and did pretty much everything a Scout could do before he turned 16.

He just turned 17 and hasn't been around for six months. For the year before that, he was around sporadically and seemed very bored. By the time he turn sixteen, he had basically been a "member" of the troop for seven years (like a normal Scout would be at 18) and had pretty much done it all. Now, although he enjoyed his Scouting career, he's pretty much burned out on it and ready to move on.

Having a younger sibling that is Webelo age isn't a bad idea once or twice a year if the activity is appropriate for that age. That will help wet their appetite for Scouts and maybe get them to get a couple of their friends to join as well when they get to the right age. However, Scout camp should not be a day care center.

For the 75th Anniversery in 1990, they sold black sashes with a white arrow. Of course, these sold out immediately and a few showed up with traders basically demanding your first born child in return for one. However, I have seen very few since (in fact, none in the past ten years) and the few people I know that have them keep them very safe as a collector's item. In fact, one of our advisors in 1990 got a sash, had every member of the lodge contingent sign it with a gold pen, then framed it with some other items from that NOAC.

When it comes to songs you can sing at the campfire, Simon and Garfunkel have a couple of good ones. We did "Bridge Over Troubled Water" at the closing campfire of JLTC about a dozen years ago and there wasn't a dry eye in the place. A lot of the Motown stuff sounds pretty good around the campfire as well, especially since the kids know a lot of the words (from being stuck in the car with their parents).

Some other good stuff to listen to is CSNY and if you really want to get deep, Traffic.

Scoutldr, I like your choices. I love a ripping guitar that accompanies a great horn section (like Chicago and Brian Setzer). Being a child of the 80's, its hard to believe I can't stand synthesizer music.

A great marching song is the "Banana Boat Song" by Harry Belefonte. I did that with the Scouts in my troop once and they loved it.

What other "popular" songs are good to sing around the campfire?

When I went up for my Eagle SM conference, it was my SM and three ASM, all of whom had helped me quite a bit in the journey. They joked for a few weeks about the hot lights and before we went in, asked me if I needed more deodorant, because I was sweating quite a bit. Once we were in there, we just had a nice discussion about what had happened in the past 6 1/2 years and asked me how my perspectives had changed over time. Of course, there was some teasing, but it ended up being a great experience. All four of them said they felt as proud of my getting the Eagle as their own sons. I hope the Scout in question will get the same treatment I did.

I just read the article in Scouting Magazine about the world jamboree in Thailand. I didn't see it mention when and where the next Jamboree was going to be. Does anyone know?

My troop pays me a generous six figure salary and built me a 4000 square foot cabin (the ceiling in the living room opens up when I want to build a campfire in the middle of the floor). They've also provided me with personal assistant (to make sure all my tour permits and other paperwork is complete) and valet (to make sure I have everything packed for campouts). My personal chef uses only Dutch ovens and ...

Ok, I'm awake now. I was just dreaming for a second. I actually do a couple of things. I coach high school track and cross country and am working to build a company that helps other companies get set up with the online technology (websites, email, database software, etc.) they need to grow with the new economy.

If this "leader" is truly helping his kids cheat so that he can boost his own ego, then he is no longer a legitimate leader. Once a leader uses their office to serve themselves instead of helping their followers learn, grow, and become better, he no longer has the right to be the leader.

I've seen people like this before. They try to bend the rules in every which way so they can get some kind of advantage. If they would try as hard to just do it fairly, then it would probably be easier for them. Ultimately, people will recognize his lack of character and the troop will slowly die off. Otherwise, someone else will take over with a better attitude.

If I had just one wish, I would give the Scouts the belief that they could do anything and the parents the belief that their sons could do anything.

The adult leaders when I first joined Scouts told us the sky was the limit if we wanted to work for it and I was crazy enough to believe them. Fortunately, my parents like the attitude I got from that, and although they didn't believe it, they didn't discourage my belief.

I don't see a problem with LazerTag. Basically, its a higher tech version of flashlight tag. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. Also, its in a controlled environment where they usually don't allow running or jumping. Much safer than the Scouts running through the woods at night. Another bonus is that there are no arguments over whether someone was tagged or not. You wouldn't want to see it happen a lot, but I don't think once or twice a year would hurt the Scouts.

I'm happy to report my troop just welcomed three new Scouts tonight. These kids can't wait to go hiking and camping. Their dads can't wait, either. One of the dads even said he wanted to go to training in the spring. If we get part of a large group of Webelos crossing over in April, we'll be over twenty Scouts for the first time in our history.

We also had our first OA election in five years on Monday night. Two Scouts were elected and I'm happy with their election (two very good kids).

The thing I've still got to work on with the adults is to keep them from trying to decide everything. At the troop committee on Monday, they selected the dates for our events during the upcoming year. Then, they started to go through and pick out where we were going to camp. Before they got too far, I stopped them and said the Scouts should get to choose that. I don't mind the committee picking the dates, because the kids always have to check with their parents on availability for those. However, the Scouts are more than able to pick out camping spots.

We now have three different levels of Scouts to work with at meetings. Although I'm very excited about it, it will be a challenge. The youth leaders are coming along, but they still have a little bit of trouble staying consistent with planning. If we can get through the next year, we should be in very good shape.

I hope everyone else's troops are heading in the right direction. It feels good that mine is.

I'm not opposed to the kids bringing the cards and playing with them (after all, they have Yuh-gi-oh and Pokemon clubs at our local middle schools). However, the only problems I've had is when a certain Scout won't put them away during a meeting. I don't think they harm each other by playing the game, but I just want to make sure they don't spend too much time doing that on a campout when there are so many other things to do. They can sit home and play with those cards all day if they want.

Yes, you are correct when you say a lot of the "exciting" stuff is very expensive. Something that really helps the sense of adventure is good old imagination and fantasy play.

Some people don't like the idea of this, but I love to go "bushwacking", where you go exploring through the woods without the help of trails. If you add some hills into the mix, things are even more exciting.

I've been out in the woods a couple of times and somehow, these bad guys drop out of the trees and start chasing after me. Aparently, Dr. No, their evil leader, has realized that Bond is around and is out to destroy him. At that point, I (Bond) go flying through the forest using every tree branch and mind game possible to elude the bad guys. How long has been since I've done this? About two months ago. Even as an adult, this is still fun.

The first time we went night hiking on a campout, the kids in my troop were scared of the dark, but loved it. They ended up making a game out of it where they were spies on a secret mission. I'll have to admit I loved it too. Of course, I didn't tell them that.

My entire point being, you don't have to spend a lot of money for excitement and fun. It does help sometimes, but mainly you just need some enthusiasm and imagination.

How many kids outside of Scouts get to go rapelling, rock climbing, or white water rafting if they're not in the Scouts? I honestly know more people that do that "extreme" stuff stuff such as motorcross, jet skis, etc. outside of Scouts than do the stuff that Scouts do. You can't appeal to everyone. When the Scouts have asked if they could have a campout for playing video games or other things they normally do at home, I just suggest they stay home if those are the things they really want to do.