captainron14

I have never heard of LDS units "Restricting" membership in their units to ONLY LDS Scouts.

In fact, every unit I have been involved in/with as a Scout or Scouter has had NON-LDS Scouts as members (30+ Years). One troop's SPL was not LDS.

I can see though where a Moslem Scout would not feel comfortable in a Jewish Troop. And other similar examples.

I was roasted for bringing up this topic before, but here goes anyway.

How many of you out there believe that 13 or 14 is THE age to be to get your Eagle?

I know there are exceptional kids out there who can do it ALL BY THEMSELVES. BUT, I see more kids out there who are under the gun by parents who "want to live their dreams through their kids".

The push is to get them to Eagle as early as possible, ANYWAY possible. Starting Boy Scouts at 10? (after earning arrow of light) Most kids at 13 do not know what being an Eagle is all about. The understanding of the responsibilities, for most is not there. The maturity is not there. There seems to be a priority of advancement over enjoyment. Why can't the boys be allowed to enjoy being a scout? I know they will have other "interests" as they grow up (cars' girls, etc.) but they should not be "Force Fed" advancement. Let them have fond memories of Scouts, not ones of "Sweat Shop" MBs and Rank. Or ones of Mom or Dad signing MBs off or arranging it otherwise.

I was told that "an Eagle, a "Paper Eagle", a "Deathbead Eagle" is an Eagle just the same", as long as it was earned "Legit". Which brings me to another point. With the increasing amount of things competing for kids attention these days, how "Legit" are some of these awards. (School, Sports, Hobbies, Music lessons, Etc.) I have seen MB "Mills" as well as Eagle "Mills"

where Eagle required MBs are earned in a couple of hours and Eagle Mills using a all ready planed "Church Ladies Aux. Service Night" as an Eagle Project (one of many examples).

How about the 17 year old almost 18 who last attended ANY Scouting program when he was 14 and a Star Scout, SUDDENLY, POOF has his Eagle, just days before turning 18 (AKA Deathbead Eagle).

And Don't even think of questioning if the 13 year old or 17 year old awards are "Legit". You don't want to "Disturb the Peace" of the CO.

Someone commented to me "When you are 45 you won't remember or care how you got your Eagle".

It would seem that for some, the Ends justify the Means.

Now I know this is not the majority of Eagles. Most Eagles are earned with honor and truthfullness. But there are those people (Scouts, Parents, and Leaders) who seen to have forgotten the Scout Law.

Excuse me for ranting and raving about this, but I along with many others earned the rank of Eagle. And I hate it when people for very selfish motives cheepen the award.

Is there anything that can be done to prevent these problems? Toughen requirements?

Better oversight by National?

I am not condemimg any Sponsoring group, especialy Churches, so PLEASE do not turn this topic into a religious argument.

Thank you.

Also,I'm sorry if I was too harsh or if I offended anyone.

Now I will stand up and open my shirt and let the "arrows fly".

I have to agree with Eisely.

Waiting for Bob.

I'm very interested in hearing from him.

Anyone know when he will be back? Anyone "Private message him and get a reply?

Hope to hear from him soon!

How sick!

It almost reads like a "Tabloid Story".

I hope this isn't true, but if it is, what was the outcome? Any charges being brought up on the other boy? What about the Leaders?

It looks like the parents will be getting themselves a lawyer.$$$$

How Sad!

Our Troop will be attending Camp Meriwether next week. It is a beautiful camp on 800 acres of undeveloped Oregon Coast. This terrible accident will put a damper on the trip. The staff member that died was in his second year on staff there. Our boys remember him as a very thoughtful and caring young man. He was very good with the Scouts. He will be missed. The camp is building a new Dining Hall and we (along with others) are sugesting they name it after Chris.

The Good Lord has another Scout to help out in Heaven.

God Bless Chris and his family.

If you would like the Email Address as well as a list that was sent to me, send me a private message and I'll forward it to you or anyone who is interested.

CR14

Profiles are for us poor souls who do not have the talent, knowlage, resources or ability to have our own web site.

Besides it is much easier to just click on the persons ID and look at their profile.

Also I do not think most members of these Forums have Web pages, where as all have a Profile (some just do not use it.)

I wonder if SagerScout would have had the same reaction to this article if it were written by a Catholic? (the Pope?) An Orthodox Jew? Or any other "Conservative Religion"?

It seems that he has a "Problem" with the Mormons.

Does he have any "WEB" sites that bash any other religions? (WWJD?) And does his "three translation Bible" support Homosexuality?

I do find it troubling that he would rather have a "Dedicated Homosexual Scouter" be a role Model for his son rather than a LDS (Mormon) Volunteer".

The LDS Church (along with many other major religious & non-religious sponsors) support BSAs Policies because they reflect their own values.

Please do not drag the polygamy issue up, unless you want to drag out the skeletons from other organizations/Churches closets (the Inquisition, Support of the KKK, Anti-Semetism, etc.)

SagerScout could learn from the discussions that Zahnada has with Yak Herder and Bob White and others.

They respect each other and agree to disagree.

I know we can get off thread, but we should respect others beliefs. Just remember what this site is all about, Scouting.

A Scout is Courteous...Kind...& Reverent.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

CR14

If your license was suspended "Years ago" and there has been no problems since, there should be no problem. My new COR filled out his registration form and "Checked" yes to this subject. The story was he liked to street race as a kid and had quite a few tickets to show for it. But that was over 20 years ago. Nothing happened with his membership or registration.

Now, recient DUIs is something very different. If thats the reason for the suspended license there is a safety problem.

Rooster, I could not have said it better myself.

Amen!

Typical Anti-BSA garbage. It amazes me at the destruction that the Pro-Gay/Anti-BSA groups will do to get their way. Just think of the money that could be saved (on both sides) that could go for the Program (Boys)and other good causes. Yet they cannot accept the Suprem Courts ruling so they try every "dirty trick in the book" to destroy what they disagree with. How "tolerent" is that?

First of all. Excellent article

Second. Great posts by Rooster, Bob, Yak, Silver, Lythops and Zahnada.

Enough said.

LauraT7

My wife thanks you for the great tip on the sash!

As for the general thread,

Despite what some people have said, Cost is part of the problem. I have lived in areas where there were no uniform banks. And the units and scouts for that matter had a hard enough time raising money to fund events and awards.

I look at the "Scout Catalog" sent out every year and wonder..."Non-Profit"? There is so much high priced stuff there to choke a horse!

I wonder why National cannot have more affordable "Basic items"? Espically since most Scout shops are run by National now, why not have prices on the "Basic" items on a sliding scale, related to family income?

They could increase the cost of the "Crystal Bowls" or the other "flashy stuff" to cover the cost.

I think some people have lost track of what this program is all about, the Boys!

I realize that cost is is only part of the problem. However, do not blow it off by saying, "There are always uniform banks, scolarships, parttime jobs, etc.". or "parents can buy $80 soccer uniform but not a $30 Scout shirt". That is another part of the problem. If you have 3 kids, you may have a Cub, a Girl Scout, and a Boy Scout. Also, 3 or more different sports uniforms and fees, as well as School Clothes.

So, there are other reasons for not being in "Full Uniform" than example.

I have enjoyed reading "Posts" to different topics and "Clicking" on the PROFILE tab and reading where they are from and what positions/experience they have. This has led to contacts with people from different states/countries and different backgrounds/beliefs, which has been very rewarding to me. I wonder why there is some who leave their profiles "Blank"? There cannot be to much of an "Identity/Privacy" issue, can there?

Thanks Bob,

As a cub in the 60's and a scout in the 70's we knew next to nothing about what was going on at "National". It wasn't until I served on camp staff that I became aware of challenges to scoutings values. I shudder to think what would have happened to the BSA if we had lost the Supreme Court case. I know for a fact that major sponsors/supporters would have "pulled out" of Scouting leaving a shell behind. Thank God that it did not turn out that way. Scoutings values will prevail.

Why can't the "Pro Gay / Anti- Religon" groups go start their own organization?

What they are trying to do is like a Nazi taking legal action to join and lead the NAACP. All in the name of tolerance! Their moto seems to be: Kill the problem (BSA) to solve the problem (the remake of the BSA).

As to "Questioning" or "Howard" I hope you are no longer involved currently (regestered/and or involved) with any BSA unit. If you are you should be expelled.

Sorry if I strayed too far from the thread.

CR14

I can see how you might think that it would be going overboard.

But when does Scouting not go overboard? Take Jamboree for example. Special CSPs, special neckerchiefs, pins, patches, etc. all for ONE event. Now with the Eagle rank, a scout who attains it, is in elite company (2%-3% of all scouts). It counts a lot more in the "Big Picture of Life" than anything else in scouting. I know everyone has heard the praises for Eagles, but they are well deserved. And remember "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle".

I'm still new to this web forum. Does the participants always drift so far from the topic? I mean realy, bad MB Counselors/MB Factories has nothing to do with the topic "LDS Scouting vs Reg. Scouting". No one sponsor of BSA is immune from problems with MB Counselors. So get over it, or start another Forum.

The value of the orginal topic is to dispell falsehoods and misunderstandings about how the LDS Church applies the Scouting program. And to make LDS Scouters aware of the concerns and problems of other Scouters.

So, lets get back to the orginal thread!

Thanks for listening!

I apologize if I have offended anyone.

CR14

How do you want to go one this? Trade or Cash?

If trade ,let me know what you might take in trade and I'll see what I can do.

Better yet, Email me direct (Private Message) and I'll send you my Email address.

Thank you.

Great to hear about your sons Ordeal! I think I looked at your reg date and mistook it for your post date. Since I got the wrong date I was a bit early on the congrats for you and your sons Brotherhood. But still I think its great that you and your son can be in the OA together. I have had some great times since my son joined just one month ago. It has given him a "new perspective" on scouting.

Good luck in your move.

One more thing did you receive my Email?

Joni4ta

Is your OA Lodge the same as Korea's? If so,I would realy like to get a lodge flap. I was stationed there from 1983-1984. But because I was on the DMZ did not have much opertunity to participate in Scouting. Went to a few outings outside Seoul but nothing else.

I am now in the Pacific Northwest if you would like to trade a patch or flap, I have a few from different areas. I'm not a real collector. I just collect patches from area where I have been.

If you can help,

Thanks,

CR14

You are right, they are wrong!

The MB Sash is not about bragging it is about accomplishment! It should be worn at ALL formal Scouting events (COH and Eagle Courts, Scout Sunday, Etc.)and ALL formal events when reprsenting Scouting (ie. Funerals, Color Guards, Etc.)

Shame on those who would discourage boys to wear their MB sashes to a Court of Honor.

That is just as foolish as discourageing a Brotherhood or Vigil OA member from wearing their sash because it would be bragging to the "Ordeal" members or non-members.

This line of thinking could go on and on...

Eagle Rank or Medal, OA Lodge flap, Philmont Patch, Jamboree Patch, ETC. ETC.

Its not bragging, its envy on their part.

Get over it!

After reading the date on this post I had to wonder. How was your Ordeal? Has your Son and yourself made Brotherhood yet? Where in ROK did you do your Ordeal?

Have you had the opertunity to camp on Cheji-do Island (I hope I spelled it right)? Its the Island off the southwestern tip of ROK. If not giv it a try, its beautiful!! Congrats on your OA ordeal and Brotherhood!

CR14

WWW

Great Idea!

Is there a list or reference on what Councils have these? is ther any policy on this?