Armymutt

Just now, DannyG said:

Kids today are different than 30 years ago. Though they still have hormones. Boy/girl troops put the boys' tents on one side of camp, the girls' tents on the other, and the adults camp in the middle.

Who stays up to make sure that line isn't crossed?  We used to be able to leave our tents and engage in all sorts of mischief without the adults knowing.  It's not like the campsite is surrounded by concertina wire.

Maybe the kids today lack the hormones we had in the 90s.  I can tell you that back then if there was a girl around, a lot of the guys reverted to being inside the high school halls.  Everyone was trying to impress the girl at the expense of the other boys if necessary.  Going to be some sleepless nights for adults who have to maintain a vigil all night to keep the two groups separated.  Going to be interesting when the first Scouts BSA girl in a troop gets pregnant.  Going to make this name change thing look like a molehill.

I guess I don't understand the need for "affinity groups" in Scouting.  To me, when one joins Scouting, one sheds all of one's other identities.  Same when I go to work.  In Scouting, I'm whatever position is on my sleeve and an Eagle Scout.  I'm not Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc.  I'm not gay, straight, etc.  I'm a male only for YP and bathroom reasons.  I'm not Dr. Armymutt, I'm Mr. Armymutt or just Armymutt.  When someone holds tightly onto whatever they are outside of Scouting, I question their values and their commitment to Scouting.  If the idea of simply following the Scout Law and Scout Oath are off putting, then perhaps Scouting isn't for that person.  If one needs to see people that look like them before joining an organization, then perhaps the mirror section at the local store is a better solution.  

3 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

I think there is near zero chance GSUSA sues.  I believe they claimed they spent 3-5 million in litigation last time and received nothing from BSA.  I expect BSA lawyers, who won the last TM lawsuit, made sure Scouting America was litigation proof.

I'm not a lawyer, but to me, "Scouting America" implies that it is the only organization for Scouting in the US.  That's fully knowing that it isn't.  While "Scouting" under the auspices of the BSA isn't confusing to the average person, eliminating the "Boy" tells me that there is no longer a separate organization unless I start digging when coming from the outside.

4 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I think they were more concerned about GSUSA's reaction, and they did sue.

Yep I too see another lawsuit.

Sadly, I'm kinda siding with the Girl Scouts on this one.  It's a step too far.  It implies that there is only one Scouting organization in the US.  

3 minutes ago, FireStone said:

Actually I think they were appeasing the simpletons by waiting 5 years to change the name. They could have done this when they opened the program up to girls but they knew that too many peoples' heads would explode if they did the name change at the same time.

There is literally no need to change the name.  The stated reason is to bring in more people.  Tells me that they don't care about the people already in who have been in for years and are totally cool with most of the changes - I'm still annoyed about trashing the Bobcat rank.  Sorry, but to me, when an organization changes its name, it loses its history.  You can claim it hasn't, but it has.  I never met a single girl who didn't join because Cub Scouts was a program under BSA.  I have met plenty who didn't join because it was too expensive.  I'm not seeing how spending millions of dollars to change the name helps reduce costs.

2 minutes ago, DannyG said:

"Scouting America" sounds more like the program we are delivering to today's youth, and it is consistent with other WOSM organizations.

 

"Scouting America is a verb, not a noun.  Are we calling the kids "Scoutings" now?  The willingness to just change the name of a very old, very known organization to appeal to outsiders who have no wish to invest in it is a sign of instability to me.  It says "We don't really have a solid foundation in our mission".  The US Army is still the US Army even though it is more of a world SWAT organization these days.  

It's like the Army changing the name of Ft. Hood to Ft. Cavasos.  Guess what, nothing else changed and it is still a terrible, depressing place.  Frankly, this sounds like some staffer getting a bullet on an evaluation.  Someone recently went through and changed the names of several organizations in the Army.  Nothing else changed and we're still not getting recruits.

So the boy units who have the exact same problem are left out again.  There are lots of boy units who have the exact same problem, especially in the inner city, like Charlotte where that council is located.  You would think that they would open it to all new troops.  Might be a great way to get boys off the streets and into the woods.  

Just got a letter from our SE.  The Executive board has decided to raise the youth fee from $66 to $80 and the adult fee from $12 to $26.  The email goes on to say that it's $165 per Scout - $85 national and $80 council.  Isn't there an extra $12 for insurance on there, or is that a council thing?  Scout Life is $15 for now.  Time to up those popcorn sales.

Here's the link to one of them on the council website: https://www.mccscouting.org/content/115391/2024-Girl-Camporee-of-the-East-Coast--Girl-Camporee-of-the-East-Coast
 

I would refuse to let my daughter go to one of these if offered in our council.  Every group faces challenges.  We wouldn't have a "Military Dependent Camporee", even though those kids routinely have to move, make new friends, get pushed around, don't get selected for Vigil, have a harder time making Eagle, etc.  

I've also seen Girl-only Camporees.  That really gets to me.  Imagine if we had Boy-only Camporees these days.  More than one person actually defended it by saying that all of them were Boy-only prior to girls joining.  Seriously?  I fully support girls being in the program - my daughter loves it.  However, I insist that all events be open to boys and girls.  To do so otherwise is an insult to the members of BSA who are excluded.  Even our Catholic Camporee is open to everyone.

Isn't the argument about mixed gender dens moot out since it is now allowed until AOL?  Without them, there'd be very few girls in Cub Scouts in many areas.  In well-to-do areas, I'm sure the packs are large.  In others, a highwater mark of 20 post-COVID is acceptable.  Our pack maxed out a 4 girls - 2 AOL and 2 Tiger.  Honestly, if we didn't mix them, the boy in the Tiger den would have been denied Cub Scouting at our Pack, as would the 3 boys in the AOL den.  The DLs were parents of the girls and the boys' parents were unable to volunteer.  If our pack still exists in 2 years, that's exactly what will have to happen.  The boy in the AOL den will be sent away from the pack due to the rules.  

I haven't experience Scouts BSA yet, but I hope this isn't the norm.  This sort of behavior and actions can make Scouts resentful of the new paradigm of BSA.  

One of the things that has been bugging me for the last 30+ years is the loss of the background color on the rank patches.  I remember something about blending in better with nature, but that's kinda bunk when you look at the variety of OA flaps, CSPs, and campout patches.  As my kids move up to the troop, I'm very tempted to buy them the old patches.  Thoughts?

8 minutes ago, AwakeEnergyScouter said:

In my view, a bigger problem than that it's a uniform rule violation is that it's taking a side in an armed conflict as a scouter. Even if everyone else there agrees with the position. Whether you or anyone else can address it with the person skillfully or not is a somewhat different question. A scene a la GSUSA threatening the scouter with the Palestine bracelets with legal action isn't a great first step.

Do you know the person in question?

No, he's from a pack in another town, based on his unit number. 

We're looking a similar thing.  After Army moving season and the AOL crossover in Dec, our pack will have 6 Scouts and no CM, ACM, or Secretary.  I mentioned recruiting in our last leader meeting and was met with silence.  Frankly, there is another pack closer to us with more girls.  My son is moving up to the troop closest to us rather than the one at our CO.  They meet the same night as our pack.  This isn't going to work for our schedule, so the current pack will have 5 Scouts and no CM, ACM, secretary, treasurer, or CC.  Once the AOL crossover occurs, I will put it to the remaining parents that we should close up shop and join the other pack before recharter.  I've tried to keep this thing afloat, but I'm met with apathy every step of the way.  The CO is more of a hinderance than a help to our program.  Even the COR was recruiting for a different pack several years ago before they folded.  We'll just quietly disappear into the night, re-registering the adults who want to continue to be leaders, re-registering the Scouts who want to continue, and transferring the remaining funds to the new pack(s) according to the registrations, after refunding unused portions of dues.  

Was at our District PWD yesterday.  Saw an adult leader who had a Ukrainian flag in place of the US flag on his uniform.  I've seen all sorts of oddities on uniforms, but I've never seen someone replace our flag with that of another nation.  

53 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I spent many a day and night on both Green and Yellow ramps at Pope waiting for you guys to load up in my trusty C-141.

Our airdrop speed was usually about 150 knots, depending on weight.  If I was tail end Charlie of the formation, I'd slack off ten or 15 knots over the DZ to make your opening shock a little less.  (Love what you did!!)  Later did some DZ control there...

Both my Dad and brother were 82nd... and I was born on Fort Campbell, and lived on Fort Bragg.  Dad retired out of Fort Gordon.  Both told me to go Air Force!  (brother in Navy said the same!) Still have family in Raeford and Augusta. 😜

Airborne All the Way! 

(I trained for the nylon letdown, but was never daft enough to jump out of a perfectly good airplane 😜 )

 

The 141 was before my time.  We had the cramped C-130s and the luxurious C-17s.  Those were nice.  I grew up in the Air Force.  Saw my stepdad wear a time to work everyday.  Didn't want to do that.  Joined the Army, then the AF decided that every day was combat uniform day across the board.  Oh well, only a couple years left to go.  

2 minutes ago, acema606 said:

I respect the name change to Fort Liberty, but it's gonna take a while before I consistently call the Center of the Universe by its new name.  AATW!

You can tell who is who by how they refer to that place outside of official communications.

13 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Careful!  You'll be put on the IVF!!

That was going through my mind when I wrote that.  I think we're both safe.  He is one of my background check references.

On 2/28/2024 at 12:32 PM, Eagle94-A1 said:

 He has already stated he will not stay on as an ASM because he refuses to give up his friends, and he is in college.

That right there is a shame.  This is where the lawyers drive out potentially excellent volunteers.  We probably were violating what passed for YPT when I was a senior in HS.  I was an ASM but I was also on the school sports teams, so I was changing in the locker room with Scouts.  I was even assigned to share a hotel room with a Scout on a school trip.  He was a junior.  

2 minutes ago, DannyG said:

There is an AOL-Building a Better World requirement "Meet with a government or community leader, and learn about his or her role in your community." Here in the states, we have a few local government officials who like to get involved in our ceremonies: like Blue and Gold and Eagle Courts of Honor. But it could be a politician, a government official (appointed), or somebody else...

The new requirement seems oddly specific.

For us, the government leaders are all around.  We have military officers and NCOs in pretty much every unit around Ft. Bragg.  May not be in the exact spirit of whoever wrote the requirement, but we get it done to the letter.

2 hours ago, DannyG said:

Sorry to hear that... It does require shared leadership. Cubmaster to organize the Pack meeting activity. Another parent to coordinate Scouting for Food. Another parent to coordinate a community event., etc... We put ourselves in position to provide lots of opportunity, so each family only has to commit to one or two. 

We tried that.  It didn't work.  We're in an economically depressed area where there are lots of opportunities to do things but everyone is "too busy" to do anything else beyond bring their kid to a meeting.  Some can't even do that and then get surprised that they didn't earn anything.