Armymutt

12 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

That would be nice,...

Leadership in our Troop has been going on about selling mulch for 6 months and someone was always going to get the information.  Then they wanted to have a quick sale before summer camp this year to help pay for transportation.  I (CC) got the info from a supplier, generated ideas for pricing.  It was put out to the Troop and only 2 families responded with any interest.  On the leader side I asked who was going to help run it because I have other things going on and I cant do it all.  Absolutely no one stepped up to help with any part of it.  So, there was no mulch sale.  

Things I just throw my hands up over

 

We (CC and treasurer) have stopped doing much beyond popcorn sales.  Can't get anyone else to step forward and do anything else in a competent manner.  Our kids make enough in popcorn to fund themselves for 2 years.  Our spring fundraiser is Scout cards.  We took out enough to have every Scout sell 20.  None did because no one set up a site for them to go sell them.  Parents actually asked us if we were going to set up a place for them to sell.  We don't have a fundraising chair because no one will volunteer to do it.  The 2 families keeping the pack alive are out of steam.  

Just received an email from our council.  Note that there is no mention of national covering insurance for adults.  We still have to pay our $12 insurance fee on top of the $60 national fee.

Dear XXXXXXX Council Scouting Family, Thank you for your continued involvement in Scouting! The values we teach in the Scout Oath and Law are the foundation young people need to address and overcome challenges in their lives and the issues facing their generation. So, as we continue to deliver the Scouting experiences for our Scouting family, we wanted to share information concerning the National Membership Fee.

The National BSA’s emergence from bankruptcy represents a pivotal milestone in the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). The court’s decision to approve the organization’s reorganizational plan solidifies a path forward for survivors and the Scouting movement. To preserve its mission, the BSA has had to take some extraordinary steps over the past three years to reposition the organization for the future: streamlined its professional staff and volunteer structure, reduced overhead costs while maintaining essential services to support the local councils who were critical partners during the bankruptcy. However, further measures are needed to position Scouting for the future. The BSA must increase the national annual membership fees for both youth and adults. This was a difficult decision that involved the engagement of key stakeholders, but is essential to building a strong, safe, and vibrant Scouting program for our nation’s youth.

Effective August 1, 2023, the BSA will implement the following national membership fees which were approved by the National Executive Committee:

• $80 for Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting participants ($5 increase)
• $60 for all adult volunteers ($15 increase to cover increased general liability insurance cost and enhanced background checks)
• $25 one-time joining fee for new program participants in Cub Scouts, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting (Not prorated and no change in fee)
• $30 for Scoutreach (Not prorated)
• $25 for Merit Badge Counselors (New Fee applies only for Merit Badge Counselors not already registered as leaders)
• $50 for Exploring participants Youth & Adult ($5 increase)
• $100 for a unit charter/affiliation fee (no change in fee)
• $15 for Scout Life magazine

BSA will no longer prorate fees for New Members beginning

August 1, 2023 Beginning August 1, 2023, all new youth and adult members who join Scouting will be enrolled in a 12-month membership cycle and BSA will cease prorating fees. Both youth and adults will pay the full annual membership fee and will renew their membership on the anniversary date of joining Scouting. All proration of membership fees will be eliminated. Each registered member of the BSA will receive an email notice with a registration renewal link beginning 60 days before the anniversary date they joined Scouting. Unit leaders will receive a copy of the email and should stay engaged in the membership renewal process just like rechartering.

Please note: The XXXXXXX Council’s annual youth fee of $54 will remain the same as last year as will the $12 insurance fee for all registered youth and adults.

Thank you for what you do in the service of Scouting for our community and youth.

Not enough information, but it sounds like she's not aware of the buddy system.

8 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

It's PA law here.  All volunteers must have that, a PA State Police check, and a PA Child Services check.  All three documents must be on file at the council office (and with your CO), and be renewed every 5 years.

That's not national though.  Perhaps the PA fees should be higher to account for laws in that state rather than charging everyone the same.  Since most parents are not volunteering, why not just add that increased cost on to the youth fee?  People shouldn't have to pay more to give their time.  

47 minutes ago, skeptic said:

"A background check and insurance can't possibly cost $60."

 

https://blog.verifirst.com/blog/bid/305407/cost-of-a-background-check-how-much-should-you-pay

Add the cost of fingerprinting in many cases, anywhere from fifty plus dollars from what I have seen.  Locally for the minimum it approaches one hundred dollars.  

Juat saying: a background without a complete search is not what they need, especially today.

None of the volunteers in my pack have submitted fingerprints.  Doubt anyone in the council has.

1 hour ago, skeptic said:

So, again we will see comments that ignore other youth activity costs.  That is the standard, and has been such for a while now.  BSA kept cost per member low for decades in comparison to most other groups, and they still are on averge less.  Here is one comparative example, and there are others.  It is not clear what additional costs may incur in relation these, and it does not indicate what the cost includes.  A little digging may clarify; but one likely would expect it to cover similar organizational needs, such as hopefully some form of YP/background process, including vetting adults.  My impression is that the YP issues may yet not be broadly faced by many groups as they are smaller and also have not attracted the lawyers.  https://www.playgroundequipment.com/the-average-cost-of-each-childrens-sport/#:~:text=The average cost of youth,child each year is %24693.  

And, my observations locally over a long while is that many that yell the loudest have little issue with numerous frivioul costs for their youth, icluding yearly trips to major theme parks, regular fast food, video games, and phones, to note a few.  Just saying, it is not easily assessed, and not likely apples to oranges.  

 

How many of those youth activities charge the adults who are serving as coaches?  That's the crazy part about BSA.  Charging people to volunteer their time.  A background check and insurance can't possibly cost $60.  If you lose the volunteers, the program dies.  That's one of the main causes of lost units in my area.  My pack will most likely die after my daughter crosses over, unless we get a parent coming behind me with a high level of passion.  

1 hour ago, Cleveland Rocks said:

New Annual Membership Fee Process Announced – BSA Will No Longer Prorate Fees for New Members beginning August 1, 2023

 

Beginning August 1, 2023, all new youth and adult members who join Scouting will be enrolled in a 12-month membership cycle and BSA will cease prorating fees. Both youth and adults will pay the full annual membership fee and will renew their membership on the anniversary date of joining Scouting. All proration of membership fees will be eliminated. Each registered member of the BSA will receive an email notice with a registration renewal link beginning 60 days before the anniversary date they joined Scouting. Unit leaders will receive a copy of the email and should stay engaged in the membership renewal process just like rechartering. 

 

It is important to note, existing members will renew their membership during their normal registration/recharter cycle through March 2024. Moving forward all members will renew on their anniversary date. 

• Existing members’ Anniversary date will be their unit recharter month.
• New members’ Anniversary date will be the month they joined.

 

This new process will help streamline the rechartering and membership renewal process for units and councils. Additional information on this membership renewal process will be forthcoming in the very near future.

 

 

This is going to be a CF on a large scale.  It briefs well, but the reality is different.  We're now going to have to spend time randomly to get parents to pay for their Scout to recharter rather than do the annual drive to get them to pay?  How does this streamline anything?  We're going to have to have someone dedicated full time to tracking when every Scout is due to recharter rather than a bulk effort at one time.  

2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I can testify to this. We had a young man denied Eagle because it was discovered troop's leadership, which consisted of Grandpa SM, Dad ASM, and Mom CC pencil whipped a bunch of his MBs so he could get Eagle at 13 or so. EBOR did what they were suppose to do and gave him a plan to actually earn Eagle. The family appealed to the council and was denied. Family appealed to  national, and he was awarded Eagle with the statement in rationale "We do not penalize the Scout for the mistakes of the adults" or words to that effect. The entire District Advancement Committee resigned in protest over this stating "National can conduct these EBORs"

I ran into the Scout one time not knowing who he was. I was surprised he was an Eagle, until I was informed of the situation.

I wonder how often this happens compared to the old days.  Seems that the increasing competition for social media attention and college applications makes parents slough off integrity in an effort to get their kid rank.  I have seen some questionable stuff in Cub Scouts, like people earning 70% of their rank in a weekend.  Even had one claim that a kid earned AOL despite having attended one meeting and a day (not night) of camping.  

On 5/24/2023 at 6:48 PM, yknot said:

You have an MPH plus a DVM degree? The only other person I know who is military and had both is a friend who wound up a Brigadier General assigned to  the Pentagon. You have a unique background for today's challenges and are perhaps being a tad modest. 

Thanks, but there are a lot of us out there.  Probably the largest portion of the Army Veterinary Corps falls into the DVM/MPH group.  It's like being an Eagle Scout at a NESA banquet.  

On 5/25/2023 at 6:58 AM, qwazse said:

If you want to have something up your sleeve for the next time Bobby spouts off, PM me, and I’ll share footage of Ukrainian defense forces using every scout skill in the book to rescue one of their mates.

Definitely used Scout skills in the Army.  Makes the unique and difficult look routine.  Land navigation?  Philmont was excellent preparation for finding your location on a map.  Packing a ruck to carry 100lbs of equipment for a long distance?  Not a problem.  Tying a bowline to prevent losing expensive and sensitive items?  Been doing it since I was 12.

1 hour ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

This, and even then, we are giving the advancement away.  Many Scouts are not earning, they are just attending and getting a badge.  I see this in several units, and definitely at Summer Camp.

Whenever our Scouts are challenged in a badge program at camp, and actually complete the requirements as stated, I go out of my way to thank that instructor/counselor (not the same thing... a 16 year old is NOT a merit badge counselor) for their program.

I wish there was a better way for "quality control" or standardization/evaluation of these things...

My thoughts too, but then this is the reality of society.  Only those with credentialing exams really require one to maintain skills.  Everything has become a box check - get it done, get it recorded, forget about it.  I'm guilty of it.  Did a masters of public health over the last two years.  I couldn't tell you how to do an ANOVA if my life depended on it.  It's not valuable to my actual job.  I knew that going in, but someone, somewhere long ago decided that this was the degree needed to advance.  I'm not alone.  On the flip side, most of the core skills needed for Eagle are valuable for life.  I've dusted the cobwebs off of several of them over the years, even during my 25 year hiatus from scouts.  

Yup, microchips are required for pets on-post.  It's generally considered the best method of identification.  They can migrate, but they aren't going to fall off or get torn off.  If the pet gets found and turned over to a shelter or a clinic, they can get scanned and call one of the companies to get contact info.  

We register them in the computer if they are going to live on-post.  Basically it is just making sure the microchip is accurate in the medical record so if the dog gets out, animal control can scan it and identify the owner. 

I was in my office today when I heard a conversation down the hall.  The OIC was giving a tour to one of our counterparts at the hospital who was there to register his dog.  She told him how we are organized and how we have an internship program here as well.  She asked if he wanted to meet the instructors.  I got up to meet them at the door and walked out to see the CM of a pack on the other side of town back in NC.  We shared a campsite at the Spookoree last fall.  Was quite surprised to see him here.  Getting him plugged into the district here and hopefully we can build a relationship between our professional organizations as well.

On 5/13/2023 at 9:27 PM, Brannigan said:

The Troop leader who is committee leader for our pack is burning bridges left & right, being very abusive & unprofessional. Two of us have already resigned. I will only focus on what I was initially subjected to. In a pack & family email I said "I am boggled that y'all have not explored all the tools on Scoutbook!" This individual replied in a very bad manner assuming that I was criticizing everyone. I can c/p the exchange soon-a-bouts. It seems that almost all other Pack leadership has had confrontations with this individual. I just sent an email to the Council asking about who to address inappropriate behavior with. Looking for advice.

We don't have all of the information, but your email comes across as abusive and unprofessional too.  It doesn't say "Look at this cool feature I found to help make our lives easier."  It says "Hey dummy, why haven't you looked at Scoutbook?"  My wife and I have different levels of commitment to Scouting, and different levels of time we are able/capable of spending.  If I find a cool SB feature or some other Scouting related reference, I tell her what it is, how we can use it, and how to access it.  I've even made a PowerPoint with screen shots and instructions.  My advice is to first look at why the person is acting the way they are.  They may be over worked or frustrated. 

I had a parent ask my wife (treasurer AND den leader) why we weren't cooking as a pack on a camping trip.  She was frustrated because this same parent does nothing but complain about how he did things in his old pack (that failed while he was at the helm) and how we aren't doing those things (but he can't volunteer because X).  After calming her down from quitting, I told her to ask him if he wants to b the Grubmaster, resource all of the cooking equipment, put together menus for the weekend, collect the money, purchase the food, transport it to camp, build the cooking schedule, and supervise the cooking.  If not, then he probably should just stick to the current model.  

I can't get adults to sew on the right patch.  I have a DL that was the CC 2 years ago.  Still hasn't replaced the patch.  I even bought one and gave it to him.

47 minutes ago, Nate_m said:

I see. So no general fund that goes toward general pack expenses. You all maintain an individual ledger for each scout and he / she takes it with them when they go. That could significantly impact that overall experience we have for our pack. We'll have to mull that one over. Not something I'm willing to overturn the applecart right now over, so we'll probably do status quo on this one. Thanks all. 

The pack has no expenses.  We sit down in June and calculate how much it will cost to purchase all required advancement, recharter the adults, recharter the unit, and how much we want to budget toward events.  This is then divided by the number of Scouts registered.  Everyone is required to pay this amount as "dues".  If we identify something that we need, like square readers for popcorn sales, this will get factored into the dues if we don't have enough residual money to cover it.  Residual money comes from donations during popcorn sales, abandoned money when someone moves or quits, and un-earned advancement.  We don't have enough people to warrant cooking as a group.  Despite complaints from a parent, no one has stepped forward to volunteer as a Grubmaster - surprise!  We do need to look at the cost of replacing our PWD track in the next few years, so we'll probably incorporate that into the dues so it doesn't hit all at once.

2 hours ago, TWP said:

Yeah I don't want to put myself in a role where the initial reaction everyone has is that it's sketchy. I have done nothing to deserve that and I am not ok with being seen that way. If that's how people feel and I have to work to convince every single person I meet that I'm normal then I'm out

That's just going to come with the territory in today's climate.  I moved to a new council.  Even as a Unit Commissioner, I was still viewed with suspicion for the first couple of meetings.  The CM and I were in Wood Badge together.  Even that familiarity didn't ease the tension from the Cub Parents initially.  Another unit is associated with the Army, so they are used to new people coming and going.  Even there, I was given a bit of an icy stare.  Now, they ask me for advice and are super friendly. 

Are you an OA Brother?  If so, contact the lodge and see if you can get on the work crew.  My lodge has a group of adults who do things around the camp that are too dangerous for youth.  It's a great way to get to know the adults in the council, many of whom have been around for a while.  

I definitely think the Commissioner route is the way to go.  Find out who your District Commissioner is and offer your services.  Mine had me interview with one of the ADCs over lunch.  He's a plankowner of the 160th SOAR and has quite an intimidating stare about him.  Great guy, but unsettling when he looks at you and doesn't say anything for a while.  

The only money we send to a troop is residual from the Scout that joins them.  We operate under a program where the Scout receives 100% credit for the money raised through fundraising.  This is because we are small and have about a 30% participation in fundraising.  If a Scout earns AOL and moves on to a troop, the credit they earned can be transferred to the troop they join.  So far, this has been $20.  

Volunteer to be a unit commissioner.  With your experience, you will probably do a great job.  Gives you the chance to have an impact across several units.

Sadly, there is a quality difference between now and the old days.  Frankly, having barriers to entry resulted in Scouts who actually wanted to be there, in my experience.  I've had the opportunity to observe two chapters in different lodges and am seeing different behaviors.  I also see differences in how those councils and districts work.  Part of it could be the demographics.  Both are near Army bases, but one district has far more military people involved than the other and this is evident in how business is conducted.  The chapters reflect this, even though many of the Scouts in leadership roles don't come from military families.  Maybe it's time for OA to be more regional than central, as it was in the beginning.  I know that will screw up the national conference and possibly section conclaves.  The upside just may be a higher quality program.  

I had a conversation about the OA on Thursday at Round Table.  One of the adults there mentioned that the chapter just had 4 new Vigil Honors.  I asked him where these Scouts were because they sure weren't at the Chapter meetings.  I never got an answer.  I asked about ceremonies teams for the Lodge.  He said that he used to have several teams, but once the Lodge did away with regalia, the kids lost interest.  Just wearing a tan shirt wasn't really inspiring.  The chapter was meeting down the hall.  It was worse than a Tiger den meeting.  The Scouts were flicking plastic forks around the room and generally doing nothing constructive.  We have inductions coming up.  I asked the chapter chief if we had a team.  She's learning one principle's lines.  I asked her if she was helping prepare the Ordeal members for Brotherhood.  Nope.  I asked if anyone in the room know the OA song or the Obligation - nope.   I tried to nudge her to open the Arrowman Jumpstart.  Nada.  I can't imagine what will happen if I recommend watching Polestar.  When I see a Brotherhood SPL Star Scout acting like an 8 y/o, we have a problem.   

I found this movie on Youtube today.  It's from the 60s, but still has the relevant themes.

7 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Registration quirks aside, my point is claiming someone is YPT trained but not registered is a contradiction.

We encourage all of our parents to take YPT.  We're not registering them all, but having them understand the YP requirements of the BSA is extremely helpful in having them understand how the unit operates and why somethings may or may not happen.  For example, when we have to cancel an outing due to lack of registered leaders.

On 4/26/2023 at 2:09 PM, seattlecyclone said:

The LDS church was never "excluded" from Scouting. They chose to leave on their own. Regardless, the BSA continues to welcome any LDS-member individual who wishes to join a unit chartered by an organization outside of their church.

But you're right, any change is likely to push away some number of people while it also brings in some other number of people, and it's certainly possible that distancing from the "Duty to God" concept could result in a long-term reduction in membership.

I don't think you can say that modifying an organization's policies to be incompatible with those of another is not exclusionary any more than you can say that policies that are incompatible with an individual's identity is exclusionary.  The evidence is quite clear that modifying the policies did not have the desired effect, assuming that effect was to increase membership.