CynicalScouter

Anyone doing?

19 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

The BSA is in a precarious position with respect to its ability to successful reorganize.

There's still a not 0% chance that it does get forcibly dissolved. I still don't think it will happen, but if local councils keep playing shell games with property the odds increase.

The NRA is a 501(c)(4) (“social welfare organization”), not a (c)(3).

It's official stated purpose as a 501(c)(4) under its IRS 990 filings is "Firearms safety, education, and training and advocacy on behalf of safe and responsible gun owners"

That means they can spend up to 49% of their money on lobbying, advocacy and outright political support.

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But political action committees became qualified as “social welfare” non-profits—501c4 organizations—that allow them to hide the identity of contributors. The IRS statute says a 501c4 “must be operated exclusively to promote social welfare.” The IRS regulation, however, says that a 501c4 need only be “primarily engaged in promoting in some way the common good and general welfare of the community.” The IRS then adopted a liberal interpretation of its permissive rule: The rule for c4s became that up to 49% of your budget could be used for election activity. But because there is simply no IRS or FEC enforcement of even that policy, political non-profits simply spend as much as they want for campaigns without disclosure. 

20 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The Middle Tennessee Council’s internal communications expressly state that the Transfer was planned in anticipation of BSA’s bankruptcy case.

Yeah, hey folks the time to have played shell games with the real and tangible assets of your councils was like 2 years go.

Doing it now is nothing but a giant red flag "seize our assets"

47 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

I do see those ads against the BSA, 3M, generic personal injury, etc.  But never CPS.

There are civil attorneys and there are ambulance chasers, we all know the difference.

That is because many of those cases are class-action and the claimants have until a set time (BSA = November) in order to get their claims in or they lose the ability to file in the future.

And the difference between civil attorney and "ambulance chaser" seems to be "I like the plaintiff" or "I dislike the defendant."

FYI: the number of civil lawsuits has collapsed in the last decade. You know what the vast, vast, VAST majority of civil litigation is?

Contract cases (and in particular debt collection and landlord/tenant). Not torts.

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High-value tort and commercial contract disputes are the predominant focus of contemporary debates, but collectively they comprised only a small proportion of the Landscape caseload. In contrast, nearly two-thirds (64%) were contract cases, and more than half of those were debt collection (37%) and landlord/tenant cases (29%). An additional sixteen percent (16%) were small claims cases involving disputes valued at $12,000 or less and nine percent (9%) were characterized as “other civil” cases involving agency appeals and domestic or criminal-related cases. Only seven percent (7%) were tort cases and one percent (1%) were real property cases.

To the extent that damage awards recorded in the final judgment are a reliable measure of the monetary value of civil cases, the cases in the dataset involved relatively modest sums. Despite widespread perceptions that civil litigation involves high-value commercial and tort cases, only 357 cases (0.2%) had judgments that exceeded $500,000 and only 165 cases (less than 0.1%) had judgments that exceeded $1 million. Instead, three-quarters (75%) of all judgments were less than $5,200. These values varied somewhat based on case type; three-quarters of real property judgments, for example, were less than $106,000 and three-quarters of torts were less than $12,200. For most represented litigants, the costs of litigating a case through trial would greatly exceed the monetary value of the case. In some instances, the costs of even initiating the lawsuit or making an appearance as a defendant would exceed the value of the case.

 

2 minutes ago, walk in the woods said:

 The school district isn't being pursued by a hoard of ambulance chasers to my knowledge.

First, then you didn't look. There are literally dozens of state and federal lawsuits pending.

Second, do you consider all civil attorneys "ambulance chasers"?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/us/new-york-attorney-general-sues-nra.html

In short: top NRA leaders were stealing money and/or misdirecting it from the not-for-profit hand over fist and the NY AG is going to try and get the NRA dissolved (exactly what happened with the Trump Charity).

Why does this matter for scouting? I can think of easily 6 different standards or practices that are built into merit badges or safety protocols for Scouts, BSA and Venturing; there are probably others.

Where's the Cubmaster would be my first question?

On 8/1/2020 at 9:25 AM, Midwest Scouter said:

RE: Permanent BSA Job Cuts.

I'd better start hearing about major cuts at the very top or this will be my wife's and my last year with Scouts BSA.  The amount of money certain people make and the large payout on pensions of this organization is through the roof.  There is no reason on earth some of these people should be making the amount of money they are making when working for a volunteer organization. Especially, one that has a paying membership on a major decline.

So, I decided to take a look at this. We don't have National's IRS 990 forms for 2019 year; they have until May 15, but almost every group I've ever known always files for the automatic 6-month extension, so I don't think anything of it. We do have for 2018, which were filed in October 2019 (again, 6 month automatic extension).

On 1/19/2016 at 11:48 AM, scoutldr said:

Rumor has it that there will be a merger of councils soon. I don't see what else they could do at this point.

A follow-up to this: CVC was issued a transitional charter and given days to merge or die. Instead, they rebuilt and become the first council in recent memory (possibly ever) to come from from a Transitional Charter.

1 hour ago, Eagledad said:

Do you have the experience and maturity to let the scouts run their program within their handbooks?

1) The "experience and maturity" slam? A scout is courteous.

2) I have no problem with letting scouts run their program within their handbooks. The problem here is that you believe there was and/or is a uniform mandate or requirement in those handbooks. As I demonstrated, that is simply not true. Wasn't true in 1967 ("It is not absolutely necessary to wear a uniform to prove yourself a Scout.") Not true in today's 14th edition. Poverty is never to be a preventative to Scouting. Neither was the uniform.

11 hours ago, Eagledad said:

TAHAWK, National created the loophole for hardship situations, not general practice. Refer to the ScoutHandbook, it doesn’t give the scout a choice. Wouldnt it be the prideful adult that would dictate otherwise?

1) It is not a "loophole". It has never been a "loophole" (see below).

2) The current Handbook does NOT a) have the kind of uniform mandate you think it does and b) it does not authorize shaming a scout for their poverty or demand they prove hardship. I've got the 14th edition in my hand. No where does it have the mandate you are claiming here. In particular Page 20-21 ("Your Scout Uniform") has no reference whatsoever to the kind of hard, fast, mandate you are describing.

3) Oh, right, that's because the modern scouts have "loopholes." Ok then, let's go back to the "good old days". I have a copy of the 1967 Handbook. Page 56. Scout Uniform.

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It is not absolutely necessary to wear a uniform to prove yourself a Scout. The important thing is – of course – that you live Scouting in your daily life. And yet, the uniform helps you to be a better Scout. Dressed as a Scout you want to act like one.

So, even back in the "good old days" there was never, ever a mandate in the Handbook. Does it make you a better scout to be in uniform? Yes, and the uniform remains one of the official 8 Methods of Scouting.

But I will never compromise on the notion that poverty should be punished or that there is some hard, fast, uncompromising rule about uniforms in any of the Handbooks. Never was, currently isn't.

On 7/31/2020 at 6:18 PM, The Latin Scot said:

Now as I said, there have been a lot of comments here reassuring you that the uniform is not a necessary part of Scouting.

As I said, the uniform is absolutely a Method Of Scouting.

But a scout should not be denied the opportunities of scouting or shamed for an inability to afford it.

I have seen it happen and it is a shame that people value wearing a uniform over giving scouts with limited financial means opportunity.

3 minutes ago, Midwest Scouter said:

I'd better start hearing about major cuts at the very top

Define "at the very top".

2 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

LOL ... Ideally, I agree with you.  

Reality ...  https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510784(19)_Scouts_Uniform_Inspection_Sheet_WEB.pdf

 

Yes, and as I said, the guidelines are a scout may NOT be penalized or denied a scouting opportunity for lack of a uniform, even for an Eagle Board of Review ("Candidates shall not be required to purchase uniforming or clothing to participate in a board of review.")

The uniform is a Method of Scouting but poor families may not be punished like this.

In addition, as I noted above, the Webelos have the option for tan/green or blue/blue in any event.

2 hours ago, SWdenleader said:

This is a problem for some of the parents who can ill afford a new uniform right now.

First, welcome.

Second, a scout may never, ever, EVER be penalized, punished, or denied any scouting opportunity for lack of a uniform. EVER. Even for an Eagle Board of Review, a "Class A" is not required.

What is required is if they wear it, they do so properly (no untucked shirts).

Third, the tan is optional for Webelos. And I quote from the Inspection Sheet (2008) as well as the 2015 printing.

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Webelos Scouts have the option of wearing either the long- or short-sleeve navy blue shirt and navy blue shorts or pants OR the long- or short-sleeve tan shirt with the official convertible Boy Scout pants or official shorts or pants. The blue shoulder loops are worn on epaulets regardless of the uniform color.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm

This will pretty much put an end to any concept of any camping this fall...

-Overnight camp in Georgia June 17–20 (4H? YMCA? Scouting? Not specified)

-At least 260 campers & staff infected

-51% of positives 6-10yo

-44% 11-17 yo

-Camp required a test <12 days before arriving & attempted "pods"

-Masks required for staff but NOT campers

-Out of 597 campers & staff, 344 were tested and 76% of those tests were positive

-26% positives report no symptoms

-Bottom line

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This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection and, contrary to early reports might play an important role in transmission.

 

The massacre is widespread.
 

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Member Care is laying off ALL of the people who answer the volunteer lines as of August 1. Sounds,like they will only be supporting the Councils again. Is the the beginning, or the middle, of the end?

1 minute ago, David CO said:

However, I wouldn't want some types of behaviors, behaviors which were deemed acceptable 40 or 50 years ago, but are not allowed today, to become retroactively criminalized.

That's why the U.S. Constitution's prohibition on ex post facto laws prohibits making criminal what was legal at the time.

The ex post facto clause, however, applies only to criminal law. Not civil.
 

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Both federal and state governments are prohibited from enacting ex post facto laws,1931 and the Court applies the same analysis whether the law in question is a federal or a state enactment. When these prohibitions were adopted as part of the original Constitution, many persons understood the term ex post facto laws to “embrace all retrospective laws, or laws governing or controlling past transactions, whether . . . of a civil or a criminal nature.”1932 But in the early case of Calder v. Bull,1933 the Supreme Court decided that the phrase, as used in the Constitution, was a term of art that applied only to penal and criminal statutes. But, although it is inapplicable to retroactive legislation of any other kind,1934 the constitutional prohibition may not be evaded by giving a civil form to a measure that is essentially criminal.1935 Every law that makes criminal an act that was innocent when done, or that inflicts a greater punishment than the law annexed to the crime when committed, is an ex post facto law within the prohibition of the Constitution.1936 A prosecution under a temporary statute that was extended before the date originally set for its expiration does not offend this provision even though it is instituted subsequent to the extension of the statute’s duration for a violation committed prior thereto.1937 Because this provision does not apply to crimes committed outside the jurisdiction of the United States against the laws of a foreign country, it is immaterial in extradition proceedings whether the foreign law is ex post facto or not.1938

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

The Coalition is comprised of more than 10,000 sexual abuse victims (collectively, the “Coalition Members”). Each Coalition Member, a party-in-interest, holds claims against the Debtors that may include, but are not necessarily limited to, unsecured claims and administrative claims.

The more claimants, the more likely it is that a) National will be forced to sell everything and be left a shell (I still do NOT believe they will be forced to liquidate and shut down, but they'll be left with effectively nothing) and b) the more likely Councils will be on the hook for hundreds of millions.

38 minutes ago, David CO said:

The executives have know for some time now that BSA is doomed.  Their goal is to secure (for themselves) as much as they can before the final breakup.  

Here's one of the silver linings to the ongoing horror that is the bankruptcy: transparency.

Councils had to turn over their financial statements to the court in July if they wanted to keep the option to participate in any future settlement. National has to file all kinds of financial disclosure.

Want to find hidden assets and improper transfers among executives? Get creditors lawyers involved. They want every single dime going to themselves or their clients.

5 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

We used to do this more in Scouting... explain, in your own words, the meaning of the flag, Pledge of Allegiance, National Anthem, Scout Oath and Law, Scout badge,...and often the scout thoughts expressed were priceless.  How can we develop leaders without asking what they think and giving them the freedom to do so?

For example, old Tenderfoot requirements  2. ...Describe Scout Badge & explain its meaning...memorize 12 words of the Law and explaining their meaning in your own words

My $0.02,

 

Cub Scouts: Webelos/AOL Scouting Adventure Requirement 1a-e

1. Prepare yourself to join a troop by completing at least a-c below:

1. Repeat from memory the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Scout motto, and Scout slogan. In your own words, explain their meanings to your den leader, parent, or guardian.
2. Explain what Scout spirit is. Describe for your den leader, parent, or guardian some ways you have shown Scout spirit by conducting yourself according to the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Scout motto, and Scout slogan.
3. Give the Scout sign, salute, and handshake. Explain when to use each.
4. Describe the First Class Scout badge, and tell what each part stands for. Explain the significance of the First Class Scout badge.
5. Repeat from memory the Pledge of Allegiance. In your own words, explain its meaning

Scouts, BSA Scout Rank Requirement 1

    a. Repeat from memory the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Scout motto, and Scout slogan. In your own words, explain their meaning

    b. Explain what Scout spirit is. Describe some ways you have shown Scout spirit by practicing the Scout Oath, Scout Law, Scout motto, and Scout slogan.

    c. Demonstrate the Scout sign, salute, and handshake. Explain when they should be used.

    d. Describe the First Class Scout badge and tell what each part stands for. Explain the significance of the First Class Scout badge.

    e. Repeat from memory the Outdoor Code. In your own words, explain what the Outdoor Code means to you.

    f. Repeat from memory the Pledge of Allegiance. In your own words, explain its meaning.

The Scout Oath and/or Law are a part of every rank requirement. The Oath is mentioned 16 times between Scout and Eagle rank. The Law 19 times.

There are three separate references to the U.S. flag or pledging allegiance to it.

Scout Rank
1f. Repeat from memory the Pledge of Allegiance. In your own words, explain its meaning

Second Class
8a. Participate in a flag ceremony for your school, religious institution, chartered organization, community, or Scouting activity.
8b. Explain what respect is due the flag of the United States.

What, precisely, more do you want?