mrkstvns

In 2018, BSA rolled out the 6th NOVA award for Boy Scouts. The new "Splash" award focuses on water and its importance to life on this planet. 

Requirements are on scouting.org and can be viewed here:  http://usscouts.org/advance/nova/scout-nova-6.asp 

Anybody tried doing this award as part of their troop program?  

Ahhhhh....the truth comes out!

Thanks, ValleyBoy!

If, indeed, your son was involved in bullying another boy, then he's lucky to have gotten a mere 6-month suspension. That's not something a Scoutmaster should ever tolerate.

I would chat with the Scoutmaster and get a different perspective. If your husband told you that troop leaders didn't want parental involvement, then he almost certainly wasn't paying attention...no successful troop runs without parental support.

Also, focus on that 6 month suspension. That's really out of line for a well-run troop, and if it really did occur, then the advice that you look for another troop is more than warranted. No good Scoutmaster supports that kind of draconian discipline (with possible exceptions for very serious issues like reckless endangerment). But again, chat with the Scoutmaster to find out what's really going on before you pass judgment.  It does sound like Dad was totally out of the loop.

Good luck!

22 minutes ago, roberthynesii said:

...

I have read about an ideas to help with recruitment, for a school talk or open house Setting up a "campsite" with tents and stoves and a canoe.  

What have you found to be effective at triggering a sense of adventure ?

Selling the soon to be scouts that Scouting is for them ? 

STEM ? Outdoor Excursions ? Merit Badges ?

I think that emphasizing outdoor adventure is the key to attracting most boys. Camping, canoeing, etc. are obvious places to start.

If you've got some older, more experienced scouts at your disposal, a cool "demo" might involve a pioneering project (like a rope bridge). (Assuming you can manage the safety issues, of course.)

I always love this time of year, when Girl Scouts come knocking on the door looking to sell cookies...

I can't help myself. I ALWAYS order several boxes of Thin Mints.

What do you guys think is the best flavor of Girl Scout cookies?   

19 minutes ago, malraux said:

The red berets are cool again apparently. 

Say not so!!!

Can leisure suits and platform shoes be the next "cool" trend???

13 hours ago, The Latin Scot said:

... That would have given their program its own distinctive yet historically rich look that would preserve tradition while simultaneously giving something new. These are clearly Scout uniforms...

Personally, I think we should look for historical inspiration by delving even further back in scouting's heritage than the mere 1980s...

How about puffy pants?

Or hideously ugly red hats...

46 minutes ago, Eagledad said:

...

The adults in our troop just wanted to hang out with like minded people in the out doors. No real agenda, just hang out. The other 3/4 of our older scouts just wanted to hang out with like minded people in the out doors. Is there no room in the Troop/Venturing program for scouts to just hang out with scouts? Does there always have to be some agenda to sway, coax, or bribe scouts to come? 

3 out of 5 Venturing crews fail after three years. Most troops loose 90% of their 15 and older scouts. Ironically, the most adults of failed Venturing Crews came from Troops of failed older scout programs. 

The challenge for the parent age adults is building a troop/venturing program where young adult scouts can sometimes just hang out with their like mind friends without any agenda intended to bribe them there. 

This makes sense.  The Advancement method in scouting is great for younger scouts, but it loses its impact as a scout gets to be around 14 and/or Life rank. By then, they've done the "fun" merit badges at summer camp and they've earned most of the merit badges they need for Eagle. Except for High Adventure camps, most summer camps and scouting programs offer nothing beyond very basic skills. 

I think the key to attracting and retaining high school age youth is, as you say, to let them just hang out in the outdoors with like minded individuals. I'm not sure about the "without any agenda" because advanced skill training could be an enticing carrot to offer them, and advance planning is fundamental to safety in the outdoors as well as to respect for the outdoors (it's an LNT principle...)

3 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

Dutch oven done late in the day when you are tired for doing all day is an awesome way to relax.  Where are you located?  maybe swing over to Texas this September.

I am in Texas (SHAC).  I'm constantly impressed by the programs I see being put on by both Capital Area Council and Longhorn Council. You guys are MUCH more on the ball than the Sam Houston Council (where everyone seems more interested in adult fund-raising activities than in presenting fun, exciting, relevant programs for youth). Maybe I will head out your way in September instead of participating in our own local event...

By the way....Longhorn Council has the BEST web site of any council in BSA!!   

7 minutes ago, mashmaster said:

I have taken and staffed Powderhorn put on by the longhorn and Capital Area council.  It is not boring for sure.  Everything is hands on and you are doing the activity.  There is some talking and explanation for each one but you do everything.  Including firing a civil war cannon which is the highlight for everyone, youth and adult.  And tying flies and then using it while you fly fish is actually fun BTW.

AND BTW, they do go into everything you mentioned about multi-day trek and such.  Is it possible you are reading the flyer in the wrong mood?  If their course is like ours, your adults and scouts come away with great info and smiles on their faces.

 

Thanks mashmaster!  I saw the flyer for the Powderhorn you've been involved with (yours is the one they bill as "Texas Powderhorn", right?), and it looks better than our council's program. 

The approach you describe is exactly the one that can inspire an older kid.

"Everything is hands on and you are doing the activity."  EXACTLY.  That's precisely what it should be.

Maybe I am just reading it while in a bad mood ... or maybe, promising me lectures about event planning and messenger of peace bores me to tears at the mere prospect of such dreadful NON-adventure.

29 minutes ago, MattR said:

I guess it depends on who is teaching the course and where they put the emphasis. Some of those topics do sound like a lot of fun. Besides, just because the email said "kayaking" it doesn't mean they're going to talk about what everyone does at summer camp. In another thread someone mentioned kayaking the Apostle Islands (oh yeah, that was you ). Maybe they'll talk about that. I'd think they would if they can find someone to cover that section. Have you ever considered helping teach that course?

Yeah, you're right about the kayaking.  It can certainly be fun if somebody with passion and knowledge and a sense of adventure encourages folks to try out some of the "good stuff" while avoiding boring background talk.  Powder Horn can be good if it's all about experiencing things hands-on. It can be very, VERY bad if any subject in the program is all talk and no do.

Some topics like "Dutch oven cooking" (too fundamental) or "scouting heritage" (too bookish) just will NOT be exciting and adventurous regardless of who does the teaching. Including any boring topics whatsoever in the program is a bad thing (because it's anathema to the concept of "adventure"). My council's program does not look like a good one. Hope yours is better.

Totally agree with you about Swamp Base --- which is why I have it in my original list of 4 great council-run high adventures.

Unfortunately, Seabase Galveston doesn't look like a good option any more. The place seems to have changed. It's evidently no longer a BSA facility connected to Bay Area Council.  In fact, they changed their name from "Sea Scout Base " to "Sea Star Base". Doesn't look like they do any BSA high adventure treks anymore --- instead, it looks like their summer programs are open to all youth anywhere.  I did find a link to "Scouting" on their site, but it looks like scouting is now an afterthought with a small number of day programs.

Their STEM/NOVA program is now a shadow of what it once was.  Whereas they once had one of the strongest STEM/NOVA programs of any council any where, they now offer a small number of NOVA workshops for Cub Scouts only. None at all for Boy Scouts any more (where they're needed most, since few troops have figured out how to run their own NOVA activities, but lots of packs roll 'em all the time). 

Today, it looks like they care more about hosting your wedding reception than giving boys a high adventure experience...

See for yourself:  https://www.ssbgalveston.org/ 

I keep a list of cool camps that I can occasionally mention to my son and his friends and let their minds wander and dream.  There's cool programs at the 4 established BSA High Adventure camps (like Dog Sledding at Northern Tier, Scuba treks at Sea Base, and Cavalcade horse treks at Philmont), and there are cool, unique high adventure activities offered by various councils. 

A few of the coolest sounding council-run high adventure activities include....

• Sea Kayaking through the Apostle Islands in northern Wisconsin (Northern Star Council), see: http://camptomahawk.org/apostles)
• Canoe or kayak treks through the swamps of the Atchafalaya National Wildlife Refuge (Evangeline Council), see https://www.bsaswampbase.org/ 
• Sailing a keelboat on the Great Lakes (Michigan Crossroads Council), see https://michiganscouting.org/outdooradventures/great-lakes-sailing-adventure/
• Mountaineering with U.S. Army Rangers at Camp Frank Merrill (Northeast Georgia Council), see https://www.nega-bsa.org/Ranger 

There are also some camps that are open to all ages (not just older scouts), but that have cool locations and a lot of programs other camps might not offer. A couple "dream summer camps"  are:

• Camp Emerald Bay, Catalina Island California (Western Los Angeles Council), see http://www.campemeraldbay.org/ 
• Camp Howard Wall, St.Croix Virgin Islands (National Capital Area Council), see https://www.ncacbsa.org/outdoors/camp-howard-m-wall/

47 minutes ago, desertrat77 said:

■Discuss the impacts associated with Scouting’s outdoor program.

■Explain the umbrella term “BSA outdoor ethics” and its components.

■Recite and explain the Outdoor Code.

■Explain the seven principles of Leave No Trace.

■Demonstrate knowledge of where to find additional outdoor ethics resources and trainings"

Those look suspiciously like requirements I sign off for first-year scouts working on their Scout, Tenderfoot, and Second Class ranks...

Our local council sent out an email that included info about an upcoming Powder Horn event. As I read the announcement, it became clear to me that their Powder Horn event is destined to frustrate more scouts than it will excite.

The reason can be summed up in 2 words:  BO RING!!!

Here's what they're telling folks about their event....
"...
Would you like to expose your troop, crew or ship to rock climbing, Dutch oven cooking, geocaching, canoeing, kayaking, sailing, paddle boarding, firefighting, search and rescue, trekking in a different countries, mountain biking, fly fishing, canoeing, wilderness first aid, astronomy, shooting sport (e.g., rifle, shotgun, handgun, archery), equestrian, wilderness survival, NYLT, Sea Scouts, the Kodiak Challenge, the Hornaday award, Messenger of Peace, living history, Leave No Trace, vendors, Jamboree, event planning, tying flies, scuba diving, and more?
..."

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but I don't think those folks quite "get it".  A successful Powder Horn fuels the imagination for older scouts and scouters. It's is about ADVENTURE. It's 100% hands-on. It avoids classes, lectures, boring chit-chat, and topics that used to be interesting at 10 years old, but that are "been there, done that" for a 16-year old. 

ADVENTURE.  THAT is the crux of a GOOD Powder Horn event...

Yet, I read SOME of these topics and groan out loud:

• "event planning"?  OMG!  Can there be a MORE boring topic in the entire universe? I'd rather discuss differential equations.
• "Dutch oven cooking"???!!! You call THAT Adventure???  Aye-caray!
• "Messenger of Peace"?  Yeahhh....like that's really going to fire up a thirst for adventures....
• "First Aid"?  Well, that's always a useful skill, but it's hardly earth shattering to ANY scout, let alone one who is old enough to do Powder Horn...
• "vendors"???!!!!  Yeah. I really want to pay $275 so that businesses can sell me junk I really don't need, or even want...
• "tying flies"??  That was kind of interesting when I did the Flying Fishing merit badge at age 12, but it's not exactly something that gets the adrenaline pumping....

See my point?

The council tells people that Powder Horn is about adding ADVENTURE to the program, but then they go and fill the program with utter BORINGNESS.   

How about replacing the inevitable boredom with some genuine Adventure topics?

For example, don't just cover "kayaking" because most scouts have done that at summer camps. Instead, show how to do a specific advanced skill (like an eskimo roll). Give an intro lesson and let folks try it. 

Don't just do "canoeing", because everybody's done that too. Instead, delve deeper and make it about multi-day river treks through Class II rivers. Or reading a river....or river rescue techniques...

There's lots of stuff that's challenging or untried by most troops that COULD interest an older youth and help keep him in scouting....but yet another boring, dull Dutch oven class and First Aid workshop with a session on event planning or "scouting heritage" is going to do nothing but convince him that he's totally outgrown scouting. And if boredom is, in fact, what his troop and council think scouting should be, then he'd be right. In my very humble opinion, a dull, watered down Powder Horn hurts more than it helps.

Anybody have thoughts about the good and bad of a Powder Horn program?

Elvis is not dead, he's just left the building.

Pity the poor youth of today, never having the opportunity to rock out with the KING of rock n roll...

Wellllll, evidently they still CAN.

I've recently learned that Elvis Presley's Graceland estate hosts an annual event where they welcome scouts and scouters to visit Graceland and earn some advancement while they do it.  Details are here:  https://www.graceland.com/scouts-rock-at-graceland 

14 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

If you want to argue the validity of their rule, that is fine, you are welcome to take it up with them. That doesn't keep them from having the rule despite what your opposing opinion.

You asked what they should sign up for at camp. I replied that some STATES (as in state law) councils and camps restricted shooting based on age at their facilities so for first year scouts, there might be better alternatives.

Not really arguing....just discussing.

Of course there are camps that have restrictions on certain merit badges for varying reasons. Thankfully, these are generally the exception, not the rule.

Just as there might be "better alternatives" for certain scouts and certain merit badges, so too there are often better alternatives than camps that put up too many obstacles for too many scouts (REGARDLESS of the reason/excuse).  

I'm really looking for general advice that holds true for most scouts/troops/camps --- not hiccups due to exceptions. 

In keeping with the Outdoor Code, "...be conservation minded."

Many of the eco-systems in the Keys and nearby Caribbean islands are very fragile. Particularly coral reefs. One thing we do as scouters is tell kids to use plenty of sunblock when they're out on the water. Yet most of the sunscreen brands we buy at Wal-Mart contain coral-killing chemicals that aren't appropriate for places like Sea Base (or Hawaii, or Cozumel, or the Virgin Islands, or etc. etc.)

Sea Base staff know this and can advise you on acceptable (or unacceptable) brands, or you can find them online. 

• Short article from NPR that explains the problem:  
  https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/20/450276158/chemicals-in-sunscreen-are-harming-coral-reefs-says-new-study
   
• Some less damaging sunscreen brands (from Travel + Leisure magazine):  
  https://www.travelandleisure.com/style/beauty/reef-safe-sunscreen 

Just because you're not lucky enough to live in the Lone Star State doesn't mean you can't cook and eat like a Texan.

In this age of Internet of Everything, you can buy quality spices online even if your local stores don't stock anything spicier than granulated sugar.

A couple good sources of different chili powders and blends:

* Mild Bill's:  https://www.mildbillsspices.com/

* Penzeys:  https://www.penzeys.com/

A lot of chili contest winners swear by Mild Bill.  My mom was a great cook and always swore by Penzeys. Even though Penzeys is based in Wisconsin, they manage to surreptitiously smuggle good flavor in and out of state. I like Penzey's Chili 9000 blend and have also had good luck spicing things up with their ground Chipotle and ground Ancho chilis. 

Dig in!

Confidence. Communication. Independence. Leadership. 

All very fundamental characteristics that a youth can develop via scouting.  It's no coincidence that more often than not, America's leaders were former scouts.

16 hours ago, HashTagScouts said:

Biggest advice I throw out to all leaders out there: make sure you are clear and firm to parents that a week of camp DOES NOT guarantee that /Johnny or Susie are coming home with 4 MBs. It is not the point of a week of camp with their troop.  

Yes.

Parents (and scouts) often assume that just because they take a class, they will earn a badge. (This is also true of scouts attending Merit Badge Universities, Midways, Camps, etc.)

In an ideal world, parents (and scouts) would read the requirements of a badge and see what can and can not be reasonably done in a camp (or class) setting. Most of the Eagle-required badges, in particular, have requirements for keeping logs or records over a period of weeks or months. Badges like Citizenship in the Community and Communication have requirements to attend public meetings (City Council, School Board, etc.) How can any parent be surprised when a scout comes home with a partial in those subjects. It's inevitable (unless the counselor is unethical and simply rubber-stamps the blue cards).  This is why I don't recommend that first-year scouts take Eagle-required badges other than Swimming.

56 minutes ago, Hawkwin said:

Note that some states, councils and specific summer camps restrict shooting activities by age. Rifle and other shooting sports might be better suited as a recommendation for second or third year scouts.

I disagree.

I've seen camps that restrict shooting activities, but when I've asked about the reasoning behind it, it's usually that the class is too popular and they don't have the resources to accommodate every kid who wants to do it. So an age restriction might be effective. 

There's certainly no valid excuse otherwise for restricting Rifle Shooting. Also, the general rule of thumb in BSA is that any registered scout is eligible to earn any merit badge.  Rifle Shooting is not something that requires exceptional strength, agility or skills beyond what an 11-year old typically has. A .22 caliber rifle has virtually no kick and is easily handled by even the smallest Tenderfoot. On the other hand, a 20-gauge shotgun does have some kick, so a conservative instructor might want kids to put off doing Shotgun Shooting for a year or two. 

Every year, parents of first year scouts ask, "What merit badges should my son sign up for at summer camp?"
Every year, I hear different responses from the SM and from the different ASMs. Some of the responses make sense. Some don't. 

What I usually recommend is a 3-point approach:

1.  Swimming merit badge
2.  Pick fun, outdoor-oriented merit badges that aren't easy to do back home using local troop merit badge counselors or local merit badge workshops.  Good choices include:
   - Archery
   - Canoeing (or another boating activity)
   - Rifle Shooting
   - Horsemanship
   - Wood Carving, Basketry, or Leatherwork (or another craft)
3. Avoid classroom-oriented merit badges and most Eagle-required badges. (Only Swimming and First Aid are really good fits for first-year scouts, and we do First Aid as a troop in-house workshop.)

I'd like to hear what kind of advice other scouters give to first-year scout parents.  

Thoughts?
 

49 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

Alternatively, use a bagel.

Okay.  I'll try using a bagel instead of a slice of tomato...

😀

I'm getting a little tired of breakfast burritos on each and every campout. There are a lot of other good breakfast options, some of which are faster and require less cleanup. Here's one that can be ready in a flash, can be cooked on either a stove or a campfire, and that requires no pots or pans.

Ham and Swiss Breakfast Croissant
Ingredients:

• large fresh croissants (at least 1 per person)
• thick sliced ham or Canadian bacon
• swiss cheese

Directions:
Slice croissants lengthwise. Put one or 2 slices of ham in each croissant. Put a slice of cheese in each.  Wrap in aluminum foil. Heat no more than 5 minutes over low to medium flame (just enough to get it hot and melt the cheese).