69RoadRunner

A scout is trustworthy is the goal. Not everyone lives it, unfortunately. If they did, we'd have no need for youth protection training. We had an incident in our troop involving scouts who are within the 2 year age difference. It was reported as required (once we finally were told about it), investigated by council and dealt with. No adults were involved or accused and the story of what happened changed many times. The worst version of the story was a request of something inappropriate between scouts in a tent which was declined and nothing further happened. In this same scenario, if the one scout is more than 2 years older, it's easier for that older scout to intimidate the younger scout. We obviously can't know what goes on in tents. As an aside, some parents knew about the incident and said nothing to anyone in leadership in the troop. It all came out at summer camp and I ended up spending an entire day talking on the phone with scouting executives about something that happened a month prior and none of us knew about. If the parents had said something, all of this could have been addressed prior to summer camp. Instead, they essentially sent us to camp with a ticking bomb. We were out of our council, so a scout was given a cease participation so the incident could be investigated. My point here is, don't hesitate to report incidents and there are reasons for the tenting policy.

My phone makes it pretty easy to add additional people to texts. So, if a scout starts a 1 on 1 text message, just add an adult and reply.

Another thing I noted in the new training that makes sense is requiring us to copy another adult on digital communication with scouts. We often have to email/text the SPL or a scout who is responsible for presenting something at a meeting, the grubmaster, etc. when there are unexpected changes. Now just make sure you copy an adult. Like the other rules, this protects adults from false charges just as it protects the youth from predators. Back to adult volunteers on campouts, other than adult parents of scouts with special needs, we've really only had the scoutmaster and us ASMs on the campouts. It's not that we deny others, but getting volunteers, like everywhere else, is not easy. We're not a large troop, so that probably is a contributing factor. We certainly welcome and need more volunteers.

The 2 year thing might present a challenge, but the reasoning for it is understandable. It's not just tents, but buddy system for bathroom breaks, etc. That's not necessarily difficult, but one to remember. Also, strong emphasis on letting the scout choose the buddy. We require adults going on any campouts to do YPT.

Yeah, if you're going to be backpacking in the mountains for 11 days, better choices will make it more enjoyable. It is supposed to be a challenge but also something to enjoy, not endure. Sure, you can make it with heavy boots, but you'll feel a lot better with your legs lifting much lighter trail runner each step. Trash compactor bags inside the pack will actually be waterproof (and cheap!) whereas a pack cover is not waterproof as it doesn't cover the whole pack. Might as well make the better choices.

OK. Thanks for the info. Batteries are more certain, too.

Our troop is doing the Sea Exploring Adventure this summer (40' sailboat). I have a Fitfort FauxPro camera for all of us to use on the boat and particularly while snorkeling. Does anyone have experience using solar on this adventure or am I better off simply bringing lots of batteries?

Great info that I'll share with our troop!

Ponchos are imperfect, just like all rain gear. Your arms get wet, they tend to get caught on branches and don't always do well in wind. The plus is that they're light and breath better. I'm likely to ditch liners and just go with Injini socks. I bought a pair to try. I've only used the Fitfort camera once while snorkeling on the Monsters of Rock cruise a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what the battery life will be like. It's hard to simulate 11 days of activities. That's a work in progress.

That's an interesting coffee option. I do drink iced coffee. You're not the first to say the fleece and puffy aren't both needed. It's something to consider. I thought Philmont didn't allow ponchos? I appreciate the advice. I'm sure our shakedown outings will modify this further.

My work in progress packing list for personal gear. https://lighterpack.com/r/1y08fv

An older scout in our troop said on his Philmont trip the previous Scoutmaster had a pack that weighed 70 pounds, fully loaded. I had to wonder if he packed a dutch oven. After meeting him, I'm impressed that he made it. My goal is to teach less weight = more happiness.

What poor choices did he make?

After watching multiple scouts learning to use white gas stoves vs. remote canister stoves, we decided that the remote canister stoves are the safer option. I got lightweight titanium stoves. I would be rather nervous having some of our younger scouts operating alcohol stoves. From what I've read, Philmont doesn't want alcohol stoves and if conditions are dry, they would be banned. They sell both white gas and canister stoves and have the canisters at the trading posts. I'm very much in favor of saving weight, but the safety factor made us go with the canisters. There are quality, lightweight options. The biggest downside to me is not knowing EXACTLY how much fuel you have left.

Well, our troop finally made a choice and we're doing Philmont in 2019. So that likely means Northern Tier in 2020. If we'd chosen NT for 2019, I think we would have gone with 9 days, which would mean 7 on the water. Since we're doing Philmont, no skipping leg day.

Very good advice, revdmv. I think 7 days would be about right for our crew. Our committee chair and I lean toward us doing Philmont in 2019 (we have a trek from the lottery). The Scoutmaster leans toward Northern Tier. The scouts, having no experience, aren't really sure. We're also looking at the ages of the kids in our troop and factoring that in. I'm trying to give the PLC as much info as possible to help the decision making process.

I appreciate the info. Our troop wants go the official Northern Tier route.

Now that we got our Philmont date for 2019, the troop is questioning if we'd be better off doing Northern Tier instead. Sigh... Anyway, the Northern Tier lottery is open, and I didn't realize that you pick not just your start date, but end date. I've read you need to consider how many miles you want to do per day. Could you folks who have done this tell me how many days your troop chose, what was the reasoning you used and would you have changed anything about that plan now that you've done the trek? Any strategy on dates as far as ensuring your troop gets in? We have a PLC meeting this weekend, and I'd like to pass this experience on to them to help them finalize plans for high adventure 2019. We're doing Sea Base this year. I'm preparing myself by going on the Monster of Rock cruise next month. I couldn't get a stipend from the troop for some reason.

Thanks for the info. That will be something for the troop to consider. I will say that YPT rules apply for all troop activities, though.

All great information!!

The reason I ask is, we don't have anyone in the troop with NT experience. I wanted to get opinions from people who know both so that I can present that to the scouts who will be age-eligible. Because our troop has lost many older scouts, the ones who could go are younger. I want to present them with the wisdom of people with experience so that they can make an informed decision so they'll enjoy it as much as possible. I appreciate all the advice!!

I think our scouts want to be able to say they've done the 3 biggies, but I'm aware there are other options. I just want the scouts to be fully aware of what each entails. The likely incoming Webelo group that would be high adventure eligible in 2020 is said to enjoy hiking, so that could be a factor, too. We lost some older scouts over something rather stupid that one scout did, or is alleged to have done. We're only at about 25-30 scouts right now and not many in the upper age range. I'm trying to help out with the research so they can make a wise decision. We want to do both of these trips in 2019 and 2020. The best strategy for ordering them is where we are now. We're in the 2019 Philmont lottery. I put in a dozen dates for 1 crew, 12 day treks starting in mid-July. We will enter the NT lottery next year when it opens. Looking at how many 12 day treks are open right now for 2018, I'd think we'd get one of our chosen dates. I've heard the NT lottery isn't as difficult to get, but I could be wrong. As for Sea Base, I've already purchased long sleeve rash guards and UV protection gaters for me and my son. Sunburn is very much not joyful. For myself, I'm more concerned about seasickness. We're doing the Sea Exploring adventure on the 40 foot sailboat. I might ask my doc for a prescription for something in addition to Bonine. I'm doing the Monsters of Rock cruise in February (I've done other cruises) so maybe I'll try something for that first.

Our troop is doing Sea Base next year. 2019 will be either Philmont or Northern Tier. Our troop is fairly young. Before presenting these options to the scouts for them to choose, I'm curious which high adventure camp is more difficult, Northern Tier or Philmont? I know that with Philmont there are a range of trek lengths and once you choose one, that's your trek. I've heard Northern Tier is more flexible. Whichever one we don't do in 2019 we'll do in 2020. Thanks!!

We didn't hang bear bags, we hung dinosaur bags.

My motto is, you're only young once, but you can always be immature.