gblotter

I don't disagree. But if they wanted to make a splash, why not use the venue of World Jamboree 2019 to announce a fully-baked program instead of this botched rollout. The manipulative surveys, the deceptive information meetings, the predetermined outcome, and the lack of details (rest assured it will be amazing) ... I'm trying to think how BSA National could have actually done this *worse*.

I'm being realistic, not cynical ... In their rush to make an announcement about girls in Scouting, I don't think BSA National leadership had even begun to think through the myriad of issues such as these. Forget about half-baked - they haven't even put it in the oven yet. Why announce something as significant as a new girls program when they can't even describe what it will look like? They are making this up as they go along. It is a move of desperation, and it is a reflection of their incompetence (in my opinion).

And thus the boys suffer (i.e. they withdraw from summer camp, opt-out) because BSA wants to focus on the needs of girls. See what I'm saying?

For a co-ed merit badge class - probably not so terrible. For a co-ed week at summer camp - that would change the entire experience (and not in a good way). If BSA adopted your earlier suggestion to have separate designated weeks for girl troops and boy troops - that provides a workable summer camp solution in my opinion.

True - until that boy troop goes to a BSA summer camp, or a Merit Badge Midway, or a Camporee, or any other Scouting function outside his specific troop.

I'm amazed as well. The actual fallout will likely be seen over a period of years.

But you thought it.

Apparently, a Scout is vindictive.

@WisconsinMomma I think your avatar well-frames our differences: Cubmaster vs Scoutmaster. My son had a great experience in Cub Scouts. He earned more pins and beltloops and badges than anyone in our Pack history. He had mostly female Den leaders except for Webelos. I participated only as a dad - not in Cub leadership. I am extremely grateful for all his Cub leaders (male and female) who understood the Cub program far better than I ever will. And to be honest, I don't care a bit about including girls in separate Dens or Packs in the Cub Scout program. That would have made very little difference in the Cub experience of my son. Do I feel the same about including girls in Boy Scouts? Are 13 year old boys the same as 8 year old boys? Heck no! Boy Scouts is not just Cub Scouts for older kids, The program changes in major ways - and for good reason. Developmentally, boys and girls diverge significantly as tweens and young teens. Reaching them and mentoring them during this critical time is definitely not a "one solution" approach - in Scouting and otherwise. Moving into later teens, the equation changes dramatically yet again. These should be self-evident truths to anyone who is the parent of a teen or who has ever been a teenager themselves. But apparently not. When we ignore or dismiss these truths, it is the boys who suffer most - they simply withdraw, opt-out. Boys are the ones failing in current society - the "War on Boys" statistics are well-known and oft-repeated. Yet we continue to focus only on meeting the needs of girls (example: this decision). Gender-separate sports teams now become the last refuge to reach boys of this age. That probably works fine for my son who can't get enough of sports, but I worry for so many other boys who found a home in Scouting when sports were out of their reach. We'll come looking for them immersed in the video game culture.

Why don't you ask my three daughters if I am anti-female before you start slinging that slur. I am as heavily engaged in their parenting and development as I am for my son. However, I am experienced enough to appreciate the differences between boys and girls when it comes to a unique program like Scouting. And those differences don't just disappear because of politically-correct derision.

Yes, I am definitely anti-coed - no doubt about it. You will get your wish soon enough. 2018 be my last year as a registered Scouter. After 10+ years as Scoutmaster (two terms), and service at the district level, I will no longer poison youth with my opinions. BSA obviously wants to appeal to a different kind of Scout and a different kind of Scouter. It is clear that national leadership does not care what I (or anyone else, for that matter) think on this topic. I will step aside to make room for the changes that will be forced through regardless.

Yes - I know. I keep hoping I will wake up from this nightmare.

Frankly, that is what terrifies me about all this. I received my Eagle in 1974, so I lived it. The word crisis is not too strong. I have been reading an excellent book on BSA history that includes a chapter about the debacles of the 1970s. I may quote a few paragraphs for additional perspective. Back then, BSA still had sufficient numbers to survive as an organization after the mass exodus. Such losses today would end the movement entirely.

Or another way of putting it ... maybe Scouts Canada has really been screwing up by adopting a co-ed Scouting program.

This is an entirely expected result. With politically-correct shaming, adult Scouters may be brow-beaten to ignore the obvious developmental differences between boys and girls. But that kind of coercion will not keep boys from just opting-out of Scouting altogether (as they are already doing in other parts of society). I predict Scouting will lose two boys for every new girl that enrolls. In the end, BSA will be a ghost of its former self - following in the disastrous path of co-ed Scouting in Canada. BSA National is rolling the dice, and the results on membership will be devastating - similar to the catastrophe of BSA's social experimentation during the 1970s when millions of boys walked away from Scouting in protest. Has it been so long that we can't remember and learn from these past mistakes?

This is the only summer camp option that I can see working. There will be a host of problems mixing genders during a week at summer camp (restrooms is the easiest one to solve). I am repelled by the idea of taking my troop to a co-ed summer camp. Even if I forced the issue, our Scouts would likely refuse to go. Frankly, these boys view summer camp as a week to get away from their sisters - not compete with them during a song-fest. I have attended summer camp (multiple times) with my daughters, and I've even led some of their group hikes. I have also attended Boy Scout camp many times. The two experiences are vastly different (as anyone would expect from young teenage boys and young teenage girls). My son would hate the favorite camp activities of my daughters (and vice-versa). I can't believe this is not self-evident to everyone.

BSA National Leadership = Bumbling, clueless, deceitful liars. What an embarrassment.

Check out the Bronxville Boy Scout Cabin belonging to Troop 2 in Bronxville, NY (a 100 year old troop!). Complete with cool stone fireplace. See http://www.bronxvilletroop2.com

That is exactly where I am at with these latest changes. After 10+ years as Scoutmaster and service at the district level, I will exit Scouting at the end of this year - 2018 will be my last year as a registered Scouter. I will do so with sadness but not bitterness. I could swallow the prior decisions about gays and trans. Those decisions were made to avoid the distractions of lawsuits and allow BSA to focus on what really matters, but in reality they do very little to change the fabric of Scouting and how things actually operate on a practical level. The decision to admit girls is a move of desperation, and it will change everything. Scouting will function differently in very fundamental ways. Anyone who has both daughters and sons (as I do) knows this to be true. A decade from now, I predict BSA will be nearly unrecognizable from what we know today (similar to the dismantling of Scouting that has happened in Canada). I'm just grateful my son got to experience the Scouting program in its fullness before this grand unraveling. He has had a truly marvelous ride, and it has been a thrill for me to be a part of his journey. But, no - I won't be sticking around for this self-destruction - too painful to watch.

A heartwarming story. Troop 2 from Bronxville, NY recently awarded the Eagle Scout rank to 96 Year Old Eugene Cerniglia. Eugene completed all the requirements for the rank of Eagle Scout while he was a youth, but when the time came for his board of review most of his troop had enlisted in the military. He petitioned to receive his Eagle Scout in the 1960s and 1980s with no success. Recently, when he came across his Scouting materials he made one last attempt. By providing evidence corroborated by public sources and attending Scout meetings for several months, Eugene was awarded Eagle in January 2018, one month before his 97th birthday. Troop 2 claims Eugene is the oldest Eagle Scout ever (likely correct). Court of Honor video here: http://www.bronxvilletroop2.com/World-Record-Eagle-Court-of-Honor.html

Ask the Duke lacrosse team. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/duke-lacrosse-rape-espn-30-for-30_us_56e07e33e4b065e2e3d486f7

All true, but it extends further. As the girls begin to occupy major troop leadership positions and the boys step back, Scouting will become known as primarily a girl organization. Then the boys flee altogether in favor of gender-segregated sports teams and others masculine pursuits. This is the path that Scouts Canada has followed. After going co-ed in 1998, Scouts Canada encountered dramatic membership declines, and it is now primarily a girl movement. Summer camp facilities are for sale across Canada. Welcome to the future.

And why am I not surprised that the clueless bumblers and liars at BSA National are doing this?

This is the exact reason why we don't have troop tents. Same - but not for the reason you stated. Vandalized tents equal wasted money.

The message of this CBS piece is clear: The Scouting movement as a boy organization is dying. The future of Scouting is girls. The demise of yet another traditional American institution (no wonder the media is so gleefully reporting it). Benedict Surbaugh is actively promoting this message in his full-access interview with CBS. Let's see how this works. Sales of Pontiac cars are dropping. Pontiac diehards love the brand because of storied performance cars like GTO, Firebird, and TransAm, but the new models have been unexciting sedans and even generic minivans. In desperation, the Pontiac division head (an account who never really loved cars) decides to pick customers from the dying carcass of Oldsmobile, a brand known for its retiree cruisers. In the end, both Pontiac and Oldsmobile fail even faster because of brand confusion which attracts few new customers but alienates many long-time loyalists. Pontiac and Oldsmobile executives bail out with self-congratulatory high-fives and huge golden parachutes.