carebear3895

This organization is going to destroy itself. 

My boss passed down some info from the National Key 3 town hall last night. 

Membership fees are expected to go up again THIS YEAR. Then slight increases for the following two years. 

2 minutes ago, Cburkhardt said:

PACAN:  I think aspects of the program will change.  They said there will be a national "re-branding" of the organization coming out of bankruptcy.  A re-branding after what we will have gone through by then (and the previous 5 years) does not take the form of a new logo. 

I have no inside information, but I'll predict that we will drop "Boy Scouts of America" or "BSA" for a new name, and this might be influenced by the GSUSA trademark litigation that I believe the bankruptcy judge will allow to go forward this summer.  If we abandon the BSA name and the GSUSA litigation prevent us from using the generic "Scout" label for our girl program -- we just might become the "Explorers", as that is a name we undisputedly own. 

Scouting/USA coming back from the dead?! Get your red berets, gents!

1 hour ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

I see increases coming at both the National and Council levels. National is losing members left and right. and with 18% of the membership gone, that is a huge amount of income that national no longer has. Then I am seeing more and more councils implementing council service fees. I see this happening with my council. Depending upon how much of a fee they charge, will factor into the members the lose. I can tell you family FOS is down in my district because the volunteers are not seeing any benefit. DE is not visible, let alone supporting the volunteers who do step up to the plate to help. Service center has the habit of losing records and applications

We are losing money left and right. Council leadership is pushing us hard to collect with FOS and it's really starting to mess with me mentally. I can't keep going into meetings where people have nothing left and have the gull to ask for money. 

If our council go to the program fee, which I think they will, then I'm out. they can nickle and dime the scouters, but I won't be the one they send, not anymore. 

EDIT: Also, it's much for than 18%

1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Scouting will continue with or without National, Councils, or the BSA. 

While National became an uncommunicative legal and financial burden, local units remained trustworthy and thrifty.

While Councils responded to covid by closing offices and camps before the CDC and state health guidelines were released and attempting virtual quick delivery of the advancement and the outdoors, dedicated volunteers waited for those health guidelines and planned smaller, safer summer adventures. Smaller as in patrol or family hiking and camping - perhaps part of our new normal. Virtual did not deliver the program nor will it sustain membership come September for those units which have had no adventurous outdoor program for the past five months. 

This is a garbage take. I'm sorry people were dying and we closed our offices, like almost every other business did, because there was a tangible danger to Scouts and Scouters. This is a really far reach to push the "professional evil" idea. We were trying to come up with every virtual idea out there because almost all of our units decided themselves that it was too dangerous to meet. It that was BP envisioned for the BSA program? heck no. But I'm sure he also didn't envision a global pandemic shutting down the country either. Virtual meeting are a heck of a lot better than no meeting at all. 

you're basically saying "The volunteers were out there saving scouting while the professionals were cowering and destroying the program because they didn't wait for the proper guidelines that came out 2 months too late". I think that is one of the most silly things i've read on this website. Can you imagine the liability lawsuits we would face? 

Moderate yourself. 

15 hours ago, TAHAWK said:

As no one presently as National can explain what the Patrol Method is - a requirement for a new Scout seeking Scout Rank - "interesting" is  accurate comment.

Interestingly, Professionals have a knot award for training. That's what the Black knot on a white background with a black border is. (not to be confused with the quartermaster award, which has a white border). Commonly called the "Vader" knot by Professionals.  

It always concerns me when I see SE's who don't have one. Like "buddy, in your 15 year career, you're telling me that you never completed 5 training courses..." 

5 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

 

And that is a mistake IMHO. You need to have a basic understanding of the program in order to promote the program. Plus the more experience you have, the better able to help your struggling units  if you do not have enough/any commissioners. If you don't meet the minimum training requested of Volunteers, how can you help them?l

My points exactly. 5 days of sales training doesn't prepare you for the unique volunteer environment of the BSA. The absolute FIRST thing i did i got into my district was ask units if I could tag along on their next camping trip. To this date, in my whole career, that was probably the best thing I could've ever done. Plus, how can you "sell" Scouting if you don't "know" Scouting. And the gold loops bang their hands trying to figure out why our turnover is so high. 

5 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

( my old lodge's motto was a clean sash is the sign of a lazy Arrowman  ) 

would've loved your old lodge. Oh how the OA has strayed from its roots. National officers caring more about how clean their fancy pressed uniforms are than actually doing any real service.  (obviously, that is a conversation for another day)

On 5/6/2020 at 9:57 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

So my question is was your SE not trained or was he just poorly trained?

"trained" is an interesting word for Professionals these days. 

On 5/7/2020 at 11:44 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

When I was a DE in the Late 90s,  i needed to complete all the basic training for the programs prior to PDL1. Thankfully i was a trained ASM with a troop and AA with my post. All i needed was Cub Scout Basic Leader Training, which I took as a DE. When i got to PDL1, found out it was a formality that they would do outside of class the first nite.

Now i am told basic training is not required.

Correct. Being a trained Cubmaster is no longer a requirement.

ScoutingU needs a complete overhaul of ALL it's professional training.  

24 minutes ago, DuctTape said:

If the purpose is for youth protection barriers to abuse as stated, then a mbc fits the criteria if unit leadership says "ok" regardless of paperwork. If not, then it really isnt about barriers to abuse.

Merit Badge Counselors must take YPT and have a background check completed. For youth protections sake, they fit the bill. 

Black button uniform? I see the new Big Boss is a man of class and style. 

Truly, I feel for him. I imagine it's not exactly a welcoming environment for him at the National office either. National pros...well let's just say they have a certain ego about them. 

@elitts Pardon me for being  short, but I have very little patience for Scouters who feel like Youth Protection standards are unnecessary. 

Not sure what "fun dying" happens when their is an adult present. In my experience, if a group of scouts suddenly changed their behavior when an adult leader is approaching, 9 times out of 10 that group of scouts was doing something "un-scoutlike" 

36 minutes ago, elitts said:

I've heard any number of flimsy justifications

Very strongly disagree. An online environment, in my opinion, poses many unique risks to youth than being outdoors. That is unfortunately just the world we live in. That two deep leadership is needed now more than ever. Downplaying the risks are irresponsible and immature. 

Our job, first and foremost, is to make sure youth are protected. Yes, sitting in on a one hour video call might provide a slight inconvenience for adults, but that is our responsibility.   

25 minutes ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I have gotten myself designated as PNG (persona non grata) in our council for asking too many questions, "disrupting" the money trail, and informing folks about how the money is spent from public documents like the IRS Form 990 (which may have put a dent in FOS).  Removed from District Committee, removed from Council committees, removed from council training team, ostracized by many...  And all without so much as a phone call from anyone at the council saying, "We'd like to discuss this with you before we take any adverse action."  Unethical, in my book.

You do find out who your friends are when such things happen...

No offense, but I feel like a lot more went on here than "asked too many questions". 

On 4/19/2020 at 8:49 AM, Cburkhardt said:

The bankruptcy and virus are going to reverse the professional cost structure back to realistic levels.  It will be tough on many professional Scouter families of those in their mid-career phase.  Many Scouters who posted earlier this spring were firmly of the belief that DEs and district operations generally will come out of this intact.  It will be the centralized council and national “support” positions that will go — all of them.

To your point, this began happening as soon as the stay-at-home orders started. Most of the Unit-Serving Executives (DE's, Senior DE's, District Directors) survived any furloughs. Most of the fundraising and program folks have been not so lucky. If you're a national employee, the writing was always going to be on the wall. 

It's been fascinating to see, and it's not even with the just the Boy Scouts. Many companies are seeing their lowest paid, usually worst treated employees, are the ones most "essential" to the business.  

11 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

One of our folks is taking a correspondence NCS course. He got the work sent to him and is doing it from home.

Forgot to add, he was suppose to go in March and it was cancelled at the last minute.

 

Insetting? Was he attending for a high risk program? (aquatics, cope, shooting sports)

1 hour ago, carebear3895 said:

Well national just cancelled all the May National Camping Schools. I don't see them budging on NCAP standards (for liability reasons), so I think this will most likely effect your summer camp status. 

Correction: ALMOST all the May Schools. The one at the end of May at the Summit is still happening. 

Well national just cancelled all the May National Camping Schools. I don't see them budging on NCAP standards (for liability reasons), so I think this will most likely effect your summer camp status. 

1 hour ago, desertrat77 said:

Very true, Carebear.  I'm referring to the expensive, top-heavy layers of the BSA (National and some councils).   Lots of resources are consumed at those levels, and little of it translates to value for the unit.

ah. We agree on this. The more time I've spent around national Professionals, the more and more I don't like them. 

4 minutes ago, Mrjeff said:

One makes reference about not letting the Scout leaders becoming a corps of professionals because it will diminish the fact that Scout leaders are civic minded individuals who are concerned about the youth in their communities.  

 

hmmm...

Two questions for you, Sir.

1. What do you believe is the role of Professionals?

2. What do you believe SHOULD be the role of Professionals. 

17 hours ago, desertrat77 said:

Well said, @Mrjeff.

I've watched the professional levels of the BSA over the decades become more and more distant from grass roots scouting.   Same with the council and National committees.

To be fair, the Professional has always been that way. That was by design by Mr. West himself. 

1 hour ago, cgail said:

If they furloughed all these people from Supply, who is shipping all the items from the scout shop that they want to sell?  I get emails every day about new projects, and Brian even has a blog about it today.

Honestly, probably all the Assistant Chief Scout Executives. Trying to justify their enormous salaries. (normally i don't complain about pro salaries, but even I think a lot of the national folks are overpaid. Mostly because I personally am not a big fan of them)

Kind of a sad fact, Bryan hasn't been a full time employee of the BSA for some time. He's just a contributor now. 

17 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

This.

Also I can tell you, some families have already said "NO" to summer camp, even if everything clears up.

I imagine many Cub Summer Camps will be submarined just from this alone. 

21 minutes ago, qwazse said:

What we are being asked to do will not stop junior from getting the virus. It will delay it.

This is where I'm at. At the end of the day, our job is to protect youth. Delaying camp is just delaying the inevitable, not protecting against it. 

Also, not to be rude, but many Scout leaders are not exactly spring chickens. 

It is not. Officially cancelled a few days ago.

It was national. 900 Employees. 150 from the office, the rest are from the National supply stores around the county. 

It's the perfect storm for the BSA right now.