karunamom3

1 minute ago, The Latin Scot said:

I think it would be best if you spoke with your Chartered Organization Representative to ask what they feel would be appropriate or not. They're the ones whose symbology you are employing, so let them determine the protocols thereof for you.

Thanks. It was our COR's idea! They just want to get the design approved by their district leaders. 

On 8/20/2019 at 8:16 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

I would go ahead an get the large NOW while there are not many MBs on it. Trust me on that. I've seen folks with MB sashes right underneath the armpit as they age.

My son thought I was crazy when I bought a large one for him. I asked him if he wants to remove and resew all his MB's and patches as he grows 😂. Discussion ended quickly.

Our new CO is a Masonic lodge. It was discussed at a leaders meeting... can we incorporate parts of the Masonic symbol into our neckercheif design? Specifically,  the square & compass or just the compass. It would be behind & around a BSA eagle. Some concern was raised over non-masons wearing it, but it is not the complete symbol and would be in the background of the eagle.  Any thoughts?

Thanks everyone. Our CO has a flag we can use indoors! That saves some money.

So based on some advise here we will get one for parades & a troop flag. 

We need flags for a new troop & pack. 

What size American flag do you use for indoor permanent use (may be carried inside a short distance for the blue & gold dinner)?

Do you use a different flag for parades or camping, if so what size? What size pole is good for parade use? Same size pole for American & troop flag?

What size pack & troop flag do you recommend? 

Links! Who do you get your flags from? Any sources are helpful. Thanks!

So, we are finally splitting from our pack & troop. Some of you may remember past discussions leading towards this moment. This will be a long-ish post.

Backstory: The Troop is adult led/no patrols and has been struggling for 5+ years. Myself & 2 other families all crossed over boys this year in May. We have been trying since January,  with councils encouragement and approval, to step into troop leadership roles and suggest/recommend/convince/encourage/insist upon boy led & patrol method to very old long term leadership. Council has looked to us as the saviors of the troop hoping we could turn it around and thrive. Every leaders meeting since Jan has been a trial. The troop felt divided. At the last leaders meeting in June we asked one last time... can we please become boy led and use patrol method. Yes to patrols (adult chosen & set up). No to boy led. We were told that they tried it and it doesn't work. (We have seen it successfully work in other units!). In addition, they informed us that they no longer want the linked female troop. 😖

We made the decision to leave. We chose to begin our own units (M/F) on the other side of town. Darn it would have been so much easier to go to an established unit in another town, but our cub families have truly become family with our kids hanging out all the time outside of scouts. We knew leaving town would divide everyone and didn't want that. We met with the troop leaders and proposed to them bringing their units (troop & pack) to the new CO understanding the troop will have new leadership roles & will be boy led. The old troop leadership is old & none of them have kids in the troop - for decades. Only 3 can go hiking or camping due to age. Anyway, we explained our thought of carrying on their scouting legacy by continuing with the same unit numbers, etc. Our new CO loved the idea of honoring the long term scouting family in that way.

The troop leaders voted without much discussion. They voted to stay and carry on. It ended in a friendly manner with encouragement and ideas for us. It was nice. I stepped down as CM of the pack. I was told by the acting CC/COR (matriarch of the units) to take the pack with us since she can't handle keeping the pack going. That was a surprise, but great. The pack families are very excited & all but one are on board.

So, I now find myself starting a male troop, female troop & family pack. 

The pack is the easy one. I am CM and running it successfully. We are losing 1 family with 2 kids and parents were a DL and the treasurer. That will make it tricky, but nothing we can't handle. Starting from scratch with no money. Hard, but we will do it.

It's the two troops I need advice on. No money to start. 5 boys confirmed with transfer applications and 4 leaders signed on. *What should we be focused on?* None of the 4 troop leaders have long term troop leadership/experience, but all are 'trained'.

We are getting the 5 boys together tomorrow for calendar planning, recruitment discussion & fundraising ideas. They are all young. The oldest is 12.5. All but 1 crossed over this May. 4 went to summer camp. None have reached scout rank.  Also on our radar are meeting with the mayor (who is aware of our move and is supportive) and setting up bank accounts soon. *What else? Getting flags, boys have discussed neckercheif design, getting camping equipment, coordinating calendar with the CO and supporting their events when we can. Uniform policy. After September recruitment the boys can set up patrols, etc. Thoughts? Ideas?

(As a side note * that one pack family that did not come with us approached the COR and the dad has stepped up to be the CM. Problem is all of the pack members, scouts & leaders, have signed on with our new pack already! 🤦‍♀️Not many people like him and do not want to work with him. I feel bad, but the COR told us to take the pack with us. I wish them well.)

I know this is an older post, but this is what we do... 

We run our own food drive twice a year that benefits 3 local food pantries. We get quite a bit of cash donations usually between 800 - 1200. We buy $25 Shop Rite gift cards with the money and split the cards between the 3 locations. The folks that run the 3 food pantries all like the gift card system we established, but it was discussed with them first.

We are looking to try a holiday wreath sale this year. Looking for recommendations on a farm to use. I have been eyeing 3 or 4, but hearing some experiences would be nice. Any to stay away from?

On 8/2/2019 at 3:25 PM, qwazse said:

Many scouts were aware of the Scouts BSA rollout. USA girls at Jamboree were a big deal to them.

Yes. My 2 cub daughters had scouts & leaders thank them for joining scouting. Many foreign female scouts went out of their way to talk to them & trade with them.

55 minutes ago, Sentinel947 said:

Difference is I'm a single man in my 20's without kids. If I strike up conversations with random youth that's kinda weird. 

Oh yes! Very different situation. My 6yr old had scouts approach her and give her things because she is so little. The older boys we were with called her our patch magnet. Lol

On 7/28/2019 at 8:25 AM, Sentinel947 said:

As a visitor to WSJ it's hard to meet any of the foreign scouts/scouters because they all have activities and such to do. 

 

I couldn't figure out how to quote without the picture 🤣

Anyway, we had quite the opposite experience as day visitors. My kids tried to keep a list of all of the international scouts they chatted with, but gave up. Way to many to count. It could be because they were obsessed with trading and would approach so many scouts. They (Cubs & Scouts BSA) were thrilled to get hugs from some Italian scouts who were giving out 'free hugs' 😀. Here are my 2 girl cubs with a lovely group of scouts from Namibia whom we spent about 30 min with twice.

We went with our troop tee shirts & neckers and felt it was perfect. The kids had a blast and that's what mattered the most.

Interesting that the comments are for activity uniform, but the votes are for the field uniform. We are going for 2 days and I have been debating on how to dress everyone. Thanks for this post.

We went out of our council to camp last week. They seemed not very well prepared for females as some other camps are.

At this time one bathroom/bathhouse had a wooden sign you flip Males Only/Females only and same with the changing rooms at aquatics. At a leaders meeting they gave the leaders instructions to talk with the scouts about knocking and not flipping signs while someone is in there. We wish they had dedicated male/female facilities like some camps do. The latrines have locking door stalls and so does another bath house so no male/female separation.

Here was a huge issue we had. I attended as leader of our male troop. We had 1 girl from our linked female troop go provo. She was registered in advance, both male troop and female troop leaders went to the camp leaders meeting 10 days prior to camp start date where the provo girl was discussed in detail since she has a disability as well. We were told there would be a female staff member in provo. Did not happen. No female staff. There was 1 other girl there, but her dad was with her so she was ok. Serious YPT/female rules questions were raised not by us because we were not aware of the issue until after dinner. Other scout leaders in provo were concerned. 

We were told that National was involved, but that there is no set policy on provo summer camp staff. In the end the girl slept with female staff in a cabin and spent the days/ate with the provo troop. Not sure how we feel about that... was she lucky because she got a behind the scenes look at camp staff, had plenty of one on one mentoring, sleep in air conditioning OR did she miss out on a true camp experience. Our biggest problem, that took staff 2.5 days to figure out, was who was responsible for her in case of an emergency situation/assembly, staff or provo? In the end they decided to bring her directly to the main office during an emergency assembly.

At summer camp two boys sharing a tent put down rugs & a tarp to avoid splinters in their feet, bugs and dirt inside. An older scout told them it was not allowed because the rugs stuck out when the flaps were closed. The two boys asked the scout why it's not allowed and he replied with because my mom told me. 

Is there a 'rule' or some tent etiquette that states this? It caused quite a controversy since 2 tents were set up this way.

1 hour ago, Treflienne said:

What is a gateway?   Maybe we should know before we go to camp?

It is similar to an archway (entryway) which welcomes people into your campsite.  It was listed in our camp's leaders guide as something to have & was brought up at the leaders meeting run by camp too. Pinterest it. Some are really fantastic!

Thanks for all of the new comments.

Yesterday we took a tour of the camp and asked a ton of questions. Saw our campsite & the provided bulletin board area 😉. We asked a bunch more questions and the guide gave us some great ideas. And helped the 5 scouts with some 'gateway' & decorating ideas since we only just learned what a gateway was last week. These guys want to go all out so let's see what they can come up with in 6 days with no hands on experience, no PL, SPL, uninvolved SM/ASM. Scout Spirit is strong with them.

We are insisting the troop brings the flags and if not, I have some in my Amazon cart. Flags will be there. The new scouts wouldn't have it any other way.

12 minutes ago, Jameson76 said:

Interesting that the question is what do we give versus what information is available.  For our troop on the troop website there are links to all the needed detail.  If a Scout needs or wants some detail, it is there.

At camp we have an information board with camp map, the schedule the scout signed up for, troop activities, the overall camp schedule etc etc etc.  If a Scout has a question, we say "check the board"

I posed the question that way because that is how the camp staff phrased it. They said 'the packet you give to the scouts when they get here'. 

Love your 'check the board' method!

Seriously?

The parents were given some info, but not the boys.

It's even more than info I have discovered. The organizer is not bringing flags, no gateway or anything related to the theme at all.  Zero scout spirit. 

(We are leaving the troop after camp)

Do you give your scouts an information packet about camp upon arrival?

I have never been to Scouts BSA camp before, only on a cub level. I went to a leaders meeting for the summer camp we will be attending and they mentioned we should give a map to the kids in their 'packets' when they get settled in camp on the first day.

I will say that I am not the one organizing the trip, but I will be there half of the week. I know they are not planning on giving the scouts anything. What do you do?

On 6/13/2019 at 3:11 PM, ItsBrian said:

 

Sabbatis is owned by a NJ council, Patriots’ Path. I’ve heard good things about it but never had chance to visit. They do often talk about shutting it down.

 

https://www.campsabattis.org/

They are not shutting it down! Yes there has been talk about it for a few years, but there has been a great upswell of support and it will now remain open. They are investing quite a bit of money... new buildings & upgrades. Here is a FB post about it.

On 6/15/2019 at 11:23 PM, ParkMan said:

It is not the intent of the BSA system that the COR overule the unit. Similarly, it is not the intent of the BSA system that the CC overrule the Scoutmaster and/or SPL.  The defined Troop structure creates a framework where a group of responsible volunteers can work together to implement a well balanced system.

Of course, this all assumes that everyone involved is working with the best of intentions in a professional way.  This forum sees lots of cases where the structure breaks down.

Thank you. Our frame work is not well balanced unfortunately. The troop has become divided into what feels like two separate groups. 

The structure has broken down. Council has been notified... we are leaving after summer camp, 4 adults and 4 or 5 boys out of a small unit of 11. It's a shame really, but after trying for 6+mo I am done.

8 hours ago, elitts said:

Now,  in direct contravention of my post on page one, I was just taking the most recent training on "Annual Troop Program Planning for Scouts BSA" and it does explicitly state that the SPL and SM have to submit the annual Program Plan to the Troop Committee for the Committee's review and support and that the Troop Committee has the right to refuse the Program Plan or request revisions if they feel it's unsafe or unwise (for whatever reason).

I have no problem with a committee  review, but in this case it is the CC/COR only (Same person) that wants all calendar events emailed to him alone & he decides yes or no and made it clear that he doesn't need to provide an explanation. It's his decision. Period.

This is all very sad & so very unscout like, from a cub scout leader prospective. 

I have a friend that runs both BSA units and a GSUSA unit.  When her GS unit arrived at a camp owned by GS, she was told that the girls could enter if they had enough adult leaders but that the head of the unit, my friend, was banned because she also ran BSA units. Just horrible.

So what happened, she made a quick call to our BSA council for a camping site & brought the GS troop to the BSA camp. What kind of message did that send to the girls? Not a positive one for the GSUSA

19 hours ago, fred8033 said:

After years in the program, my hindsight is if you do something, do it sooner than later.  We are often in scouts to benefit our sons.  Though the whole experience could be years, the time window for our sons (and daughters) to have a great experience is really short.  Spending too much time battling can destroy our scout's experience. 

Good advice to get out soon.

We have a week of summer camp coming in 3 weeks. I dont think we could swing pulling the new unit together in that time so we have decided to work on it, go to camp & tell them soon after. In addition, they are relying on our leadership for camp otherwise they need to go provo.

19 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

Not going to lie, it was hard on all of us. Kids do miss their friends. But they kids have been reinvigorated and are enjoying Scouts now. I wish I would have tansferred sooner.

 

Sorry to hear it was rough for you.

We have the benefit of all 4 new scouts (AOL crossovers) and 1 additional scout moving with us. They are a core group of friends that hang out all the time. Heck they were all at my house last night until 10:30 and had pizza together earlier in the day.