karunamom3

Thanks to everyone that responded. Such great advice & support.

Tonight is the troops leaders meeting where we hope to hash it out. We have a council rep joining us to listen and give 'friendly advice' in his words.

We plan to voice our concerns, lay out our options/facilitating them (staying, going, etc) and point blank asking the current SM what his intentions are. I will update tomorrow. 

If we stay, the 3 of us will take leadership roles within the troop. I will not give up CM because I just started. This is my first year & I love it, I really do! As for the girls troop, it may just have to sit on the back burner for now even though council won't like it. We shall see.

Yesterday, I found out why the current SM may be hanging around... he is running for elected office as freeholder. So, being SM looks good on his resume I suppose, but he is failing the youth in the process. 

17 hours ago, MattR said:

We had a scout that was too young to join but was the only AOL scout in his pack, so he unofficially joined us a couple of months early. His dad was with him at every event and he kept wearing his webelos uniform. He did every event, including campouts. So, two very different situations. 

I agree this is a very different situation because in this case, the AOL is covered by insurance.

For us, we do not let parents leave if their child is visiting & not registered. They need to see what is happening because ultimately they will decide if the child joins. Also, our biggest concern is insurance. After 2 meetings, maybe 3, we pressure to complete paperwork.

16 hours ago, ParkMan said:

Hi @karunamom3,

Sounds to me like you've got a Scouting program at your CO on life support.  Ouch!  I think you've got two different choices to make:

1. what do you do for you sons?
2. what do you do for Scouting at your CO?

You want your sons to have the absolutely best Scouting experience possible. 

Beyond that, your pack & troop need to grow.  One of the basic rules I've always seen in Scouting is:

• Great program leads to youth membership.  Youth membership leads to adult volunteers.  Adult volunteers help build great program.  It's a cycle.

If you've got a pack and troop holding on for dear life being run by a couple of overwhelmed people, it's going to be really hard to build a great program. 

See if there are any former Scouters who could be enlisited for a two year commitment as you rebuild.

My experience is that you need to get to about 25-30 scouts and 8-10 volunteers to have a really sustainiable program.  

Two simple recommendations I've also seen work well are:

• Get all the leaders to sit down and write out an annual calendar.  Stick to that calendar.  Don't reschedule things (short of weather) and don't cancel things.
• Have a monthly adult leaders meeting.  Make it important that everyone attends.

This is very acheviable.  Packs and Troops start every day with fewer resources than you have now.

 

So many good thoughts in your comment @ParkMan. Thank you.

Yes the troop is on life support and has been for at least 6 to 10 years. The pack was, but we have gone from 3 to 18 active scouts (22 registered) in 3.5 years. I have come to realize that the troop does zero recruiting! They rely simply on crossover scouts and word of mouth. The pack on the other hand is more active than the troop in every way & has a good recruitment program too. Your 2 points are spot on... my son & my CO some tough decisions are ahead. I did think of contacting a former SM to see if he can help the troop. I do not think he would give 2 years. I am hoping for a few months, but any help would be great.

I think 25 to 30 scouts is a lot & with even 15 to 20 you could run a more sustainable  program than we have.

As for your 2 simple recommendations, we follow them with the pack. A calendar is created in July & we do stick to it. The troop on the other hand is another story. They still dont know where they will go for summer camp. They have few plans & they do not go into the new year with a plan in place. It drives me nuts & I warned the leaders at January's leader meeting that that will be changing.

16 hours ago, Treflienne said:

How densly populated is your area?  Are some of these other boy troops reasonably close by, even if in another town?   If so,  the opportunity for boys in your town to participate in scouting does not go away, even if the troop chartered in your town folds.    

Actually, cooperation with those troops might help you with the girls troop.  For us, even though our girls troop is linked with one of the local boys troops,  the other local boys troops (to which we are not linked) are referring girls our direction,  offering to loan us equipment if needed,  and willing to give advice if asked. 

 

We are dense here, east central NJ. We have the only troop in town, but there is a boy troop in the 3 towns around us. 2 are less than 10min from our CO and the 3rd is less than 15min.

The female troop is linked to our boy troop (shared equipment), but we will be active with another female troop in 1 of our bordering towns.

Last summer we took our cub scout pack on a trip around the Statue of Liberty on a sea scout ship. It was by far the best outing our pack has done in the last 10 years. It was, interesting, fun and a real educational experience. One of our Cubs plans on joining the SS when he is old enough because of his great experience on that trip.

Thanks malraux. I needed that reminder.

T2Eagle, I am not concerned about the female troop for my daughter yet because she is only a Bear Cub. Although council wants it to start now, of course & understandably.  I realized the lack of camping/outdoor program was a real issue when I was at a training course about first class requirements. When I asked how we could get them there with only 3 trips a year at most the room fell silent and jaws dropped... it was discussed weather the troop should even exist any longer. Also, I do understand about advancement not being the focus, but when the scouts are upset & unhappy themselves about it then there is a problem.

I forgot to add... there is a troop leaders meeting on Monday. The 3 scouters who the pressure is on will be there. We intend to ask the SM why he is still involved and discuss no advancement and troops future/us staying. The CC & a council rep will be there. If you can think of anything we should discuss lmk.

This is a hard post to write since there are so many issues that have compounded over time. Here is the whole story.

Back story: So our CO has a Troop & a Pack. They have existed for many decades, 1960's perhaps. In 2014 the pack temporarily  closed & the troop was barely hanging on. In January 2015 they revived the pack with 5 boys & that is when we came along. We ended in June with 3 boys but were able to recruit more over the summer. Every year I am told that they dont know if the troop will hang on long enough for my son to cross over.

At that time, the same man was the SM, CM, Webelos & AOL den leaders. His kids were out of scouting for at least 5 years. He was tired, burnt out and was done. His mom is the CC of both pack & troop. His dad is COR of both pack & troop. Both in their 70's. The family has a very long history of scouting in our town almost from the start. Over the past 2 years, the man who did it all has left all positions.

Pack: I am now CM, DL and plan all camping & activities. There is little parental help and we have 18 kids. But we are rocking it & having fun. Over the 4 years I have been there I have questioned why we do certain things & can we change them with the usual no response. Such as... we cross over in June not feb/March, we do no activities with the troop besides a food drive, AOLs do not attend any troop meetings as required. As I get more training I realize things are not right. I forced a joint camping trip last & this year so we are making progress.

Troop: is a mess and this is where I need help. My son is crossing over this year! The troop has 7 boys, which is a lot for them. 1 is an Eagle, SPL but rarely comes. The SM is zero help. He is the president of our CO (American Legion) so during troop meetings he is cleaning or fixing something, hanging out with CO members, basically not there. He rarely if ever goes camping or on an outing. He usually backs out last minute leaving the scouts & committee scrambling. The CC & COR do not like him as SM & want him out. Problem is there are no parents willing to take over as SM. All of our committee members except for 1 have not had kids in the program for at least 10 years. They are older & burnt out. The troop camps approx 3x a year at most because there is no adult leadership to go. The scouts are not advancing. We have a scout with 35 MBs and is still a tenderfoot. Another has been there for 2yr 9mo and has not made tenderfoot. Our newest scout has been there for 7mo and still no scout rank. The meetings are so boring, the kids just sit at a table all night long, a parent has complained to national, 3 scouts are considering leaving, one 'hates' scouts, one wants to be with the Cubs because 'they have a better program and are more fun'. You get the picture. There is no PLC because they were told that you must be 1st class to be on one. None of the scouts are 1st class except for the Eagle who is rarely there.

Here is where it gets even trickier...since I have 2 girls in Cubs, we decided to start a linked girls troop. We plan to run an amazing girls program, scout led. Female troop is chartered. 

How can I run a great troop for girls, meeting the same night, while my son is bored to death twiddling his thumbs and not progressing. Ugh. This is tough. Council expects issues to arise. To compound it, council advised the new female troop leaders to visit other troops so we can see how different troops run. We brought our AOL sons with us every time & now they see what a troop should be like.

So do we stay or do we leave? We found other troops our sons really like. If we go, the fear is scouting in our town will implode (by us & council). The troop has been waiting for my sons den to cross over with 5 boys & active parents. It's a hell of a lot of pressure on us when all we want is a great program for our sons. The 2 scouter families (me & another mom/dad, 3 of us) can not physically, mentally or emotionally keep Cubs running, revamp the boy troop completely and start a female troop. If I knew just how poorly run the boy troop was I never would have initiated a female troop.

To top it all off the COR & CC husband & wife are taking a leave of absence because he has been diagnosed as terminally ill. So if we leave now, we are the bad guys who ruined our towns scouting while he was sick and destroyed their legacy.

If you are still here, thanks for reading! Any advice at all is greatly appreciated!

Thank you The Latin Scot. You gave me a lot to think about.  I like your idea of not awarding 1st, 2nd & 3rd. We used to do best in show chosen by someone not involved with the scouts but that led to an angry family and a scout quitting also. We can't win it seems. 

We did 'include' by shaving off fractions of a second. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to just disqualify, but we would have not been happy to see a scout walk away not being able to participate. We tried to find a middle of the road solution. When will we learn that we will never make all families happy.

7 minutes ago, WisconsinMomma said:

I know a family where the mom and dad had a horrific breakup.  The dad and son had worked on an incredible car the year before, and the boy ran it twice.  I don't know if he had any chance to do another car the next year.   Sometimes it's good to put kindness first and not get to picky about the circumstances. 

We did think about letting it slide to make our lives easier. They problem was that 1 of the cars in question caused a big to do the year before. Many families thought it was wrongfully modified. It was a car no one forgot. So on the flip side. We had parents who followed the rules and took the time to build a new car questioning if we were going to let them run it again. It was a tough spot to be in.

You bring up some good points. 

We are following the district rules because our pack will be hosting our district PWD. 

Hmmm... good idea to go over the rules with each parent. And if this should happen in the future, a chance for a scout to redo their car is also a good idea. I would imagine some of this trouble would have been avoided if the parents had a heads up beforehand.

"Is it worth keeping them around"... we have been asking ourselves this question. Both families dont fully participate. Dont help out, very rarely go on outings, have never been camping and both boys have been with us from Wolf and are now AOL. Both families are the big complainers of the group and are not team players in any way. Always complaining & never helping. Both have debated before about weather to continue on with scouts. You get the picture.

I need opinions from those not directly involved please.

We had our PW derby today and 2 cars were clearly from last year's derby. One of them still had a marking we placed on it during the race. 

- rules were handed out and texted to all parents. #1 states: "NEW CAR: Car must be built this year (2019). Cars from earlier years are not eligible.

- the cars in question were compared to pictures from previous years by 3 leaders.

- 6 leaders discussed including cub master, assistant cub master, committee member & 3 DLs

-we are a small pack of 18 

- instead of disqualifying the cars the leaders agreed to subtract 1/8 of a second off the time of the 2 cars in question.

The 2 families are now angry with the pack and have threatened to not return. They both claim that their cars have been 'redone'... Weights changed, 'same style', wheels removed and reapplied, etc. We tried to compromise with a time penalty and allow them to be in the race. Well, guess who is the bad guy now. 

In addition, 1 scout wasn't there. His parents brought the car for him.

We are unsure of how to respond besides putting our foot down and saying, yes we are at fault. The cars should have been disqualified. Period.

What a learning experience.

Do linked boy/girl troops share a bank account?

Our council does not want any linked troops to share a number since they are 2 units

Good idea

I am currently a cub master and will soon be an assistant scout master. Do I need 2 uniforms? Can I put the cub & boy scout 'trained' patches on 1 uniform? Or double any other patches?

Can awards (belt loops) be recognized retroactively in our Council's system?

We, meaning the new leaders, recently found out that the old leaders were not giving credit for all of the boys achievements. The boy would get the belt loop for an elective, but it would not be entered into our Council's computer system (and I supposethat means National too?).

What they were doing was taking each ranks book and entering in the required electives and entering the number of electives required by randomly choosing an elective from the book. Ugh. Our boys complete many more electives than the few required. 

As new CM can I add in all of the correct awards into the system?

On 1/5/2018 at 12:19 PM, RememberSchiff said:

Accessorize skort with a beret?

We have a current boy scout that wears a beret like this. It has sentimental value for him.

Looking for the old belt style full kit or just the white plastic piece that slips onto the belt.

I have a scout (now webelos) that never received any recognition and has asked why. I dont have the answer but would like to get him what he has earned.

30 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

How does your Cubmaster feel about this?

If  I was Cubmaster, I would jump at the opportunity.

The Cubmaster is fine with it. It is the Committee Chair who is opposed. 

Can a mayor give scouting awards to cub scouts? Opinions on this please?

Our cub scout pack is holding their Blue & Gold dinner tomorrow. The mayor has been invited and is joining us for part of the day. We thought it would be nice for him to give 2 of our awards out. These 2 awards/situations are a bit more special than an average award so we thought it would be nice for him to do (and media may be involved).

We have surprisingly been met with resistance from the old blood within the pack. They feel that he is only a guest and should not give any awards because he is not involved with/a member of our pack. The awards should only be given by den leaders or the cubmaster.

The mayor was a cubscout in our pack when he was a kid. He gave our pack $1000 for uniforms and books. He gives us a school bus and driver from the town to use for events 1 or 2 times a year. He has asked us to lead parades, etc.

The younger blood feels that is may be a snub to not ask him to be a part of the awards process. Hit me with your thoughts & opinions? Thanks.

. 

We collected food donations outside a local food store. Any monetary donations we received we bought gift cards to the food store.Then we distributed the food & gift cards to the 3 main food pantries in our area.