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Posts posted by Jackdaws

  1. Has anyone heard of Scout reach?  

    We have a couple units here in my council.   One has their meetings in one of the roughest housing developments in our city.   Not really sure how successful it is though... 


    Its hard for some to see the value of Scouting or how it can form their future for the better.  Some people seek out sports for their child to be the next (insert top NBA & NFL players names here) and think that is their ticket to becoming successful.  That is something that the BSA can't compete with, we are not flashy.  That's a society thing and over the years we have seen some big falls from grace on some of those "role models" in sports. 

    Sadly a lot of people think Scouting is nerdy and something for white kids who can't play sports.  If people would see the long run value/benefits that their child can gain from the BSA vs the money and physical long term effects of competitive sports then you can sell them on it.    My knees can tell you the price of being a catcher in softball for many years.

    Hope I don't get flamed for this:

    Personally I think this new badge is just a tactic to look "woke" and try and "save face".   If you are truly living the Scout Oath and Law, you should not be having issues and stop any issues you see arising.  

    The BSA needs to leave itself alone, it used to be a well respected and sought out program for America's youth.   The watering down of requirements, pandering to small group of demographics and rising membership fees have not done nothing to strengthen the program at all.   BSA likes to try to count their chickens before they have even laid the eggs.    Focus on and rebuild what worked for over 75-90 of the first 110 years of the BSA(provided with the new YP in place!)


    • Upvote 3
  2. I thought about doing axe throwing once at a birthday party held at an entertainment center.   We decided to race the go carts instead.   Right after that I saw a video of where the axe bounced back and about hit a lady in the head.  Luckily she ducked in time.  Yeah no thanks.  I will pass on that activity.  :eek:

  3. For BALOO I would say you really should hold it in person as most of those who are attending are really green and probably have zero scouting experience.   They go to the sign up night and an initial camp out and get sucked into helping.   Learning how to plan a campout is vital to ensure success in future camp outs and keeping people engaged. 

    For IOLS, it seemed rare that those where there were new to scouting or leadership in scouting.   When I was the district training chair, I actually ran both courses together but in different modules.  I know I will get flamed for it, but to me the courses were fairly similar and the only real difference was the needing to camp overnight (at the time BALOO didn't require camping) and a couple more older skills like an ax yard and other things that make running a troop more advanced than a pack.   Why not have those people who are coming to BALOO kill 2 birds with one stone and get IOLS also?  I felt it would also help towards leadership retention.   We only did it once because scheduling of instructors was difficult at the time.  


    • Upvote 1
  4. On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2020 at 3:09 PM, thrifty said:

    just thinking about reenactments a few days ago.  I love history, enjoyed going to reenactments and historical sites as a child and it was usually cheap for my poor mother.  I've taken my family to several.  I've never owned a confederate flag but I wonder how any event like this can survive in a society that has become intolerant of just about everything.  The gray army gets no insignia?  But then people are still imitating traitors and the wrong side.  Blue army vs blue army?  I'm sure WWII reenactments will probably suffer because of this increased scrutiny too.  Conneaut OH has a very large D-Day reenactment that many troops volunteer at and everyone has a great time while learning.

    Not sure how someone could find fault in WWII?  We only entered war after we were attacked and then also went to Europe to help end the Holocaust and stomp out the Nazi's.  I guess there is so people who will argue America's use of internment camps and dropping the bombs.  But I guess I stand with the "Don't poke the bear and they wont attack you" lot.    War is h#ll no matter which way you look at it. 

    I am in Florida had have attended some reenactments a long time ago.  I think if we erase history, people are doomed to repeat it.  Why can't people look at it like 1/2 the nation was willing to fight for what was wrong and end slavery?   The North ultimately "won" the war, so why not celebrate that?  If you are cancelling history, then you will only create fiction to fit your narrative. 

    Gosh I try to not get political but this cancel culture is going to doom our country.   This is why not everyone should get a trophy.    Life has disappointments at times and that is something people need to learn how to cope with.  

  5. For the love of all things holy. Get rid of badge magic.  I have seen multiple uniforms get tossed from the troop closet due to the badge magic all over the shirt.  They had been stuffed in there with the patches removed and over time they stuck to themselves and was impossible to work with.  Its not that hard to sew something on.  And its not expensive.  You can get a sewing kit at the Dollar Tree....

    • Upvote 3
  6. 12 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    So Atlanta Area has advised (and this is a summary) for the Scouts camps - 

    • Don't know what's coming
    • Focused on safe program
    • Changing food (cook or delivery to site)
    • Cope and Climbing may not offer
    • No whitewater rafting
    • Aquatics is difficult
    • Shooting sport are difficult

    Seems like not much to be offered

    Thus why we cancelled out trip.  We were supposed to be week 4 which its looking like their 1st week open. No thanks, I don't want to be the Guinea pig.  

  7. 15 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    I see increases coming at both the National and Council levels. National is losing members left and right. and with 18% of the membership gone, that is a huge amount of income that national no longer has. Then I am seeing more and more councils implementing council service fees. I see this happening with my council. Depending upon how much of a fee they charge, will factor into the members the lose. I can tell you family FOS is down in my district because the volunteers are not seeing any benefit. DE is not visible, let alone supporting the volunteers who do step up to the plate to help. Service center has the habit of losing records and applications

    This really could be the kiss of death for a lot of people.   Scouting is supposed to be that low cost year round family activity.  Our camp card sales really took a hit this year due to the virus and our council came out with some virtual Entertainment book thing.  Its $20 not too sure how many people will pony up that money.  1/4 of the sales go to the scout as opposed to 1/2 that we get on camp cards.  

    I was unable to fulfill my 2019 FOS commitment due to my husband having open heart surgery.  Loss of income and medical bills took away that money.   I didn't like that I failed to honor my commitment but I have to take care of my family first.

    BSA is really going to have to try and tighten the belt hard this year to avoid an increase.   Sell a high adventure camp or something.    Fat is already being trimmed at the council level.   Our council just announced going from 11 districts to about 4.   Not 100% if all those former D.E.'s will become support staff somehow yet or what(I was unable to attend the virtual announcement).  

    They also need to figure out a better fall sale product.  Popcorn is dead.  At least in my area.   Too expensive and not that good quality product.  

    • Upvote 1
  8. 17 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:


    If they do an increase again this year.  I will be done with the BSA once my son earns Eagle.   I love the program but I am not going to be raked over the coals to pay for previous issues many of which happened before I was even born or allowed to join the BSA.  

  9. If anything and council camps don't happen, I think the camps should try to schedule scouts to come in small groups and do work days.  Like they do on OA service days.   Lots of scouts hurting for service and conservation projects right now.  Money is probably the one hold up from massive undertakings happening. 



  10. Not familiar of what the YMCA is doing but I think there could be some hiccups with this.   Are you saying open a council property to non scout families?  

    Then you have the argument of who exactly is deemed essential.  I work for a trucking company and am having to work from home to ensure freight keeps moving.  Everyone who has a job is technically essential as their family probably depends on that job income. 

    If its a BSA camp are we still going to follow YPT rules?  Will adults be required to attend with camper?  That defeats the purpose of it being a day care.  Parents already think BSA stands for Babysitters of America(this is  a myth we dispel at the 1st meeting). 

    • Upvote 1
  11. 12 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    Indications are they will refund all fees.  Send a note to the council and they should process quickly

    Yes I spoke to the camping coordinator and filled out the form they had sent out in an email.   Stinks we had to cancel.  Was pretty excited about a new camp but it is what it is. 

  12. 9 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

    Atlanta Area Council has cancelled first two weeks of summer camp (Week 1 - 5/30 and Week 2 - 6/7).  This is for both Woodruff and Bert Adams.

    They will update 30 days out, so I guess 5/14 for week 3 which is scheduled to start 6/14.

    Our troop has made the decision to cancel for week 4  at Bert Adams.  We have a couple high risk scouts and couple adult's with travel bans.   Really hope they give us a full refund. 

  13. 16 minutes ago, yknot said:

    I just don't see how camps and especially HA will be able to run this year. The only things that work right now are social distancing, masks, and hygiene. Temperature checks are really not that useful because a significant percentage of people do not ever develop fevers or only do so long after they have already been contagious. The symptoms we are learning are also increasingly variable far beyond a cough, fever, or sore throat. The CDC recently expanded the symptom list, but it still does not include GI symptoms which appear in many cases. Other nonspecific symptoms include skin rashes, pink eye, and neurologic signs. I am really not sure how a camp health officer will be able to do surveillance on all that and how you would be able to tell a case of routine stomach bug from a possible Covid symptom. If I were running camps, I would try to preserve the main point of summer camp -- getting kids camping outside -- by forgoing some of the other traditional camp aspects. I would have troops forget about splitting up for merit badges, etc., and instead have them experience a shortened camp week if necessary in troop pods. Troops can hike together, boat together, shoot together, etc., assisted by staff with sanitizing between each group.  I would cut the census by giving each Troop a half week. Meals would be delivered to the camp site by staff to avoid dining hall issues. Easy enough to set up a camp site fly to have a meal space for each local troop pod.  I think to have any semblance of safety this summer you have to change the way you view the camp experience. 



    In troops with a varied age range and rank range this maybe a challenge.   Not all first year scouts have the swimming badge thus they can't do the water sports and Star and Life scouts aren't going to sit around and do those what many consider first year badges like First Aid. So keeping them together may not be the best.  Several of our older scouts usually opt for the extreme challenges at camp as they have already been there and got the badge for it on the other classes. 



  14. If National makes an official cancelation for this summer, that's 2 of out the last 3 years of nothing at Philmont.  That could pretty bad debt accumulation for them. 

    I am really on the fence on whether our troop should go to summer camp in Georgia if its open.  We have a couple scouts with health issues already.  My son has a heart defect and couple boys with asthma.   We are exploring the option of trying to book a week somewhere to camp on our own and try to do some activities.  We know it will be a massive undertaking and its hot as all get out here in Florida (one of the main reasons we don't go to our council home camp) so we would need to make sure we have somewhere that will be able to accommodate what we are looking for.  

    I am wondering if councils if there is a delayed camp will maybe try to do some weekend or 3 day activities in small groups to get those scouts a chance to do the practical portion of some badges. 

  15. 48 minutes ago, Eagle94-A1 said:

    Here's the deal, National has already stated online outdoor training is not allowed, yet A) they are jumping into it and B) People are ecstatic about it.


    How come they suggest you do the online portion of BALOO prior to doing the practical portion? 

    Outdoor Skills Training Courses

    These courses are designed to help Scouters with skills related to the BSA’s outdoor program.

    Cub Scouts IconBasic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO)

    This one-and-a-half day course is designed as an introduction to the Cub Scout outdoor program for leaders interested in adding a camping component to their Pack activities. BALOO training consists of an online pre-requisite component in addition to an overnight hands on practical. BSA’s Cub Scout level camping policies will be taught along with the discovery of the necessary tools to help units carry our a successful camping experience. Completion of this course is mandatory for a MINIMUM OF ONE adult on a Pack overnighter.

    This course should not be taught with IOLS. As part of a two-part blended learning format, the on-line modules are the first step to become BALOO trained. The on-line training modules contain introductory and basic information that will be built upon during the practical training that is completed during an in-person, council instructed course. The on-line component must be completed prior to the practical component and the course facilitator should check this before allowing enrollment into this part of the course. The in-person syllabus is facilitated by the council training committee and the syllabus must be followed to include the overnight portion of the training. Otherwise the training code will not be awarded.


    Been a while since I was the training person and in cub scouts so I have not re upped my BALOO training.

  16. I do believe this is going to be the death knell to a lot of scouts/units.  Hardest hit group: AOL kids that were supposed to crossover & potentially those 16 1/2-17 year old Life Scouts that were starting to work on their Eagle Projects.   Very good chance those 2 age groups could just fade away.  

    We are going to try and get the applications filled out for those who were supposed to crossover this weekend and work on getting them engaged and start to work on some rank advancements and earning those stay at home badges.  

    Summer camp is currently a big ? in our group right now.  Crossover parents haven't paid any money yet and we aren't sure we will even be able to go to summer camp if this keeps up  Our council is asking nothing doing till at least May 11.  

    However this could potentially have a bright spot.   We could heavily advertise online and on t.v.  and see if we can't suck in some kids to start scouting since things like sports are currently suspended.   The BSA has that  "rainy day' activity potential.  But then would they want to continue as Lone Scouts once this lifts?  Will they want to go camping with their unit in the future?  That's unknown.   So many variables. Realistically, if you are looking for things for your child to do, you can just google the what we do an do it for free.  Just wont get all the snazzy awards and patches. 

  17. All activities here are suspended till at least April 1.   

    The summer camp we are supposed to go to this year was to have week 4 class registration this coming Tuesday 3/24.   We got an email a couple days ago saying registration for weeks 1 & 2 have now been pushed to April. 

    Scouters and Parents,

    With the current situation across our country and the world we have decided to push back merit badge registration three weeks. We hope this will allow you time to work with your Scouts virtually, with their parents, in order to get class schedules from them.

    Weeks 1-2 will open April 13 at 9AM Eastern

    Weeks 3-5 will open April 14 at 9AM Eastern

    Our troop is up in the air on making any more payments till we see how this all pans out. 


  18. Wait a second, don't they contradict themselves on the last point?  And pretty much every other point in this memo...    It says this is from an email from the GSA Orange County.  

    The talking points below come via an email from the Girl Scouts of Orange County, California.

    Marketplace positioning talking points following BSA’s filing of Chapter 11 bankruptcy:

    • First and foremost, Girl Scouts is and always has been a completely separate and independent nonprofit organization from any other youth-serving or scouting organization and is not now and has never been affiliated with, partnered with, a subsidiary of, or otherwise engaged with any other youth-serving or scouting organization.
    • Girl Scouts of the USA (GSUSA) and Boy Scouts of America (BSA) were founded separately, incorporated separately, and have existed as two completely separate and distinct organizations for more than a century. That has not changed, nor will it ever.
    • Girl Scouts of the USA does not share or overlap membership or finances with Boy Scouts of America.
    • BSA’s decision to admit girls did not signify a merger, partnership, or any other formal or informal joining of our two separate and distinct organizations.
    • The bankruptcy filing by BSA does not have any financial impact on Girl Scouts’ finances, which are strong.
    • In terms of Girl Scouts of the USA’s pending litigation against Boy Scouts of America for trademark infringement, GSUSA will continue to protect our trademark rights and pursue its infringement claims against BSA.
    • Girl Scouts was not part of BSA’s decision-making process to file for bankruptcy, either formally or informally, and so cannot and will not speak to the internal motivations, finances, or decisions of another completely separate organization.
    • Girl Scouts is proud of its more than 100 years of dedicated and expert service to girls—and girls only—in an environment that is girl-led, girl-focused, supportive of girls’ positive development, and, above all, safe.
    • At Girl Scouts, we do not comment on the actions or circumstances surrounding any other organization. As the single-largest and best girl leadership development program in the world, we remain focused on our mission of serving girls and preparing them for a lifetime of leadership.



    I call this talking out of both sides of your mouth.



  19. Girl Scouts may not want to chuck too many stones at us.   A quick Google search brings up several stories involving abuse in the GSA. Here are 2 examples.



    I quit the Girl Scouts in the 5th grade after moving back to Florida.  We went to sign up night at the school and got a real weird vibe from the MALE Girl Scout leader.   I told my mom I think I am done with scouts.   She agreed it was weird and so we left.

    What is the required training for a GS leader?   Their website is pretty vague.  Did not see anything about required training or YPT.   They have a 161 page safety check points book.  That I highly doubt most people actually read.    FTR the full version of the BSA GTSS is 110 pages.  




  20. 4 minutes ago, dkurtenbach said:

    A good question for the decision makers in BSA to consider.

    Numerous state legislatures have addressed the moral question of whether victims of abuse that happened many years ago (outside the former statutes of limitation) should have the opportunity to seek compensation.  They said yes.  The BSA has addressed the moral question of whether to attempt to pay reasonable compensation to valid claims of victims of abuse that happened many years ago.  BSA said yes.  So that leaves the moral and practical question of how to pay the compensation that will eventually be required:  Put the burden on current and future members, or find another way?

    Another moral question is:

    Should a BSA members feel any duty or loyalty to the Scouting program to help it out in its time of need, or any duty to help the victims of abuse by making the financial sacrifice of paying higher fees?


    Do we know if insurance covers the past victims?  

    From Wikipedia:

    The annual report states that the BSA may have "to pay damages out of its own funds to the extent the claims are not covered by insurance or if the insurance carriers are unable or unwilling to honor the claims.

    Accordingly, the BSA hired a law firm in December 2018 to investigate filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy. Such a bankruptcy could stop litigation of at least 140 lawsuits and prevent further lawsuits. In October 2019, a substantial membership rate increase was announced related to increased operational expenses, especially substantial increases in insurance costs.


    If not, then why the rate increase?   They claimed rising insurance costs.   And if bankruptcy can possibly prevent further lawsuits, then the lawyers will have no choice but to go for the local councils, who will in turn also file for bankruptcy protection. 

    • Upvote 1
  21. I have also been curious to the profit margin on KK.    In our district there are 2 standing KK stores that do pretty good business so customers have the availability for fresh doughnuts if they get the vouchers. 

    Funny story on the cops/doughnuts line.   My brother is an Eagle Scout and now a cop.    He and my husband were out one day and decided to get some doughnuts.   My husband said I bet you like them because you get them for free (my brother is very thrifty!).   My brother said "Contrary to what you believe, we do not get free doughnuts."  They pull around to the p/u window and he tries to pay and the man said "Nope, they are free.  Your money is no good here.  Please take them."  My husband started laughing.  My brother probably wished the floor of his cop car would have opened up and swallowed him into the hole.   :laugh:

    • Haha 1
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