Jackdaws

You are most welcome!

Looks like Lander University is in the Blue Ridge Council.   Sadly not many of their Beascout.org pins are updated but this is the closest Venturing crew for the zip code. 

    Crew 2175 Our Lady of the Lords www.scouting.org     Contact: 551 - Blue Ridge Council for more information... 864-233-8363   1 Park Plz
Greenville, SC 29607

A true southerner will like KK.   I like KK way better than DD as I feel that DD is a drier more cake like doughnut.   KK when they are hot and fresh will do down like butter.  When we lived up north all we could get was DD.  My mom hated it. 

I try to stay away from doughnuts as I feel like such crap after I eat some(well that and that I am overweight).  But that being said my husband bought 2 dozen for 3 people in my house.  Geez.   Those are going to go bad before they all get ate.   I may have to down one or two of them(when I have time to feel crappy).  I asked him why he bought so much.  "It was the coupon for this month in the calendar."   I told him that he needs to take them elsewhere so they can get eaten.  Also KK doesn't tend to freeze as well as DD IMO...

I would definitely make sure the scout participated in any kind of fundraisers the troop holds.  And see if he can do extra jobs like others have mentioned. 

Is there a reason your unit only does one fundraiser a year?  Why not have a car wash or a spaghetti dinner?  Those one off fundraisers could be enough for whatever he may need and then some surplus for anything the troop needs or even a fun trip one weekend.

Is there a Scout Reach division in your council/district?  Are there scholarships available thru the council for things like a uniform and some fees associated with scouting?  

I hesitate to let people in our pack know that there are scholarships available as they may not really need it and will apply for it and take it away from someone who does.   We also had a parent 3 years ago who claimed they were dirt poor (I don't doubt they were lower income but from what I could tell they had no problem going and spending the day down in St. Augustine riding the pirate boats several times at a pretty penny http://www.blackravenadventures.com/price/tickets).  I told her that scholarships were available and that she had to contact the council as we do not handle any of it.   Well they sporadically attended that 1st year.  Then the treasurer tells me at the 1st den meeting the next year that they never paid any dues at all the previous year (yes I know that should have been mentioned sometime in the previous year).  We pull the parent out of the meeting and ask for dues.  She blustered all up and said she paid last year.  Um no you didn't.  We have no record of it at all.  She claimed she had cancelled checks.   We told her she needed to bring them up to us as proof of payment.   Never saw her or her child again.  She knew what she was doing all along and it finally caught up with her.   I still see them at my sons school. I am so tempted to ask if she found another pack to fleece.  But I know that wouldn't be very nice.  But man we paid for awards all year long and gave her son a uniform shirt and patches for it.  That stuff wasn't cheap. 

So naturally now we are on guard when someone claims they can't pay their way. I hate that we are like that but the whole fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me thing holds true. 

As a female, I don't see a problem with it.  I thought they were sufficiently covered.  Were the shorts too short?  Not really, you can go to Walmart on any given day and see much more skin from a lot of people who really shouldn't be showing that amount of skin.  

I am willing to bet that these Mom's who complained, never ever volunteer for anything in the pack or council.  They are probably the ones who are sitting in the back on their phones...

Susan

I hate that you are faced with this situation. 

Like the others have said, I would push for further explanation from the council.   It seems rather odd that he gets to stay but you are the one asked to leave when he is the one who had the outburst and was arrested.   As a parent, I would have something to say to the pack leadership about that if I had witnessed it.  I would ask the council/unit leadership why couldn't they let him go and have you step up to be the full time leader?   If you were an assistant anyways I don't see where the transition would have been hard for anyone so that excuse just doesn't hold water with me. 

Back in November our assistant Cubmaster was arrested along with his wife on domestic violence charges.  We spoke with our district executive and agreed to ask him to step down. We also agreed we wanted what was best for the scout.   Even if it meant someone else picking him up (I know that is frowned upon by some people) but we didn't want him to miss out for something that was beyond his control. The Mom has faithfully been bringing him each week now that dad can't come.   They have made up apparently and we do see him every once at something special like pinewood derby(he always helped tremendously at PWD time as woodworking is his hobby).  I think the charges were dropped against both but the damaged had already been done. 

Hopefully you and your son can find another pack to join(go to beascout.org to find another pack!).  You don't want to be in a unit that acts like that and backs an unfit leader. 

Susan

Stosh,

I like that idea!  We may need to try that at round up (sorry sign up night). 

Susan

It's serious.  The remaining leadership needs to get with the Charter Org. rep and appoint a new chair and Cubmaster as soon as possible.   At this point in the year, packs should be planning for the upcoming year.   Without the proper leaders in place the pack will not be able to function properly.  Sure you maybe able to limp along but when it comes down to making decisions and resolving issues you need to have that committee chair in place.

Can I ask why they left?  Did they crossover?

Susan

I think parents today maybe are not seeing the value in scouting.  Ideally we are instilling values in them that will serve them to be better men.  It may not be something immediate you can see but the seed is planted there and with proper commitment it will grow and flourish. 

Parents balk at any kind of work that needs to be done at home.  Why is that?  How is it any different if your child plays a sport and you have to go to practices before the game.  Its the same thing if you ask me. 

There are always those people who seek fame and fortune/making a quick buck over hard work.  My son had a school chess tournament last night and there were kids who were upset they didn't win anything.  I am not talking about trophies (certainly there were some of those) but kids upset and crying they didn't win something as simple as a fun size bag of skittles from a random drawing.  Wow really?  I told my husband that I better not see our son cry over something like that.  He did get a trophy (6th place out of about 70 kids   ).  I honestly wasn't expecting anything after 3rd place but the top 10 kids got a trophy.  That means there were 60 or so kids that walked out of there empty handed.   That's life if you ask me. 

I have been kind of pinching the top side of the belt loop and then slide the loop onto the card.  Its not an ideal solution but it works.   I initially put all of the awards for each scout in their own Ziploc bag but I want that bag back so the den leaders lay them out on a table and gingerly hand them off to boys during the ceremony.  Most boys want to put on the loop as soon as possible.  For those who don't its best to hand them to Mom and hope she doesn't lose them.  

Some kind of slotted card would be what I am thinking is needed.  Maybe an index card to put the loops onto.  Then you can staple the index card to the acknowledgement card. 

As I am not a den leader anymore I can't give the best answer but as general observer for each den it seemed like there was a lot more planning and prep required for each requirement especially for the den leader.  Each rank/den has 9 boys in it and its a lot for one person.   Parent participation is something we are going to press much more next year.  I would almost like to say "enforce". 

Take the Grin and Bear it for the Bears.  My sons den spent over a month on the whole thing.  They had to figure out what games they wanted to present (that was one meeting) then the den leader spent who knows how much time and money on building things for the carnival.  We had a full on gaga ball pit made out of plywood.  Yet there were other small things like a duck pond that were not that big but you still had to put all of the stuff together and buy the ducks.  Since we needed space to put on the carnival ( our CO stinks, no space & too many rules) we had to wait till a Saturday to put it on our feeder school.  We advertised it w/in our pack but attendance was low.  Thank God for siblings.   That way we had people other than our den to participate.   It also seemed like it was a one off thing.  If you didn't help and attend with the carnival, you didn't make rank, that really only happened to one boy.   He dropped out anyway because he didn't get any awards at a pack meeting and his Mom was upset about it.  Well, if you don't attend the meetings or show us that he has completed the requirements then you aren't going to get any awards... 

Anywho, here we are with only 2 den meetings left in the "year" and each boy has made rank but only earned about 2 electives.  My son earned one of those at summer camp last year.   I know its not all about getting the "bling" but if you have boys who were used to the old program and getting several awards each month then this new program seems like such a let down. 

I still don't like the new "adventure" loops, they are IMO, hokey looking and there is no way to attach them to the cards.  Yes, I am the awards chair.   Those belt loops have been the bane of my existence all year.  On the other hand I think the Webelos pins are so plain and cheap looking. I can't win either way. LOL! 

I for one am glad I stepped down as a den leader last year and moved up to the committee.  It got too much for me to do by myself not to mention it got expensive. 

Susan

I will undoubtedly have my son in something next summer no matter what.  He is already signed up to attend our district day camp at the end of June.  Lord its going to be hot as heck here in Florida.  I prefer an earlier camp but it is what it is.  

Next year we may attend the webelos resident camp @ Camp Shands.  They have a new aquatics center that everyone is excited about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq4pIjTEO2o

They may try a pilot district to see how it goes.

Susan

Last night at our district committee meeting, the D.E. said that other people at the council are kicking around the idea of doing 4-5 Saturday activities in lieu of a week long all day long camp.   And they would allow you to pay as you go=each Saturday. 

Obviously from a volunteer stand point you should get more help since adults probably wont need to take a week off of work. 

But I have some reservations/questions:

I don't know if it will prepare the boys well enough for boy scout resident camp. I know day camp is not the same as a resident camp, but I am thinking of the boys doing all day of scouting activities consistently.   

I know some people see day camp as a week of babysitting.   Now that they are made to attend a Saturday all day event (presumably 1 of their 2 days off) with their child, will they not bother to go?

Will they still be able to work on some requirements like they would with a day camp?  My son completed 2 or 3 of his Bear requirements while at camp last summer.  

Will people sign up with good intentions and then forget to attend or easily blow it off? 

Will the council lose money by letting people pay per day? 

So I am on the fence whether I would want to do the several Saturdays deal.  I have a weird work schedule (3am-12:30pm M-F and I do have to work a couple Saturday's a year) so weekends are when I tend to try and catch up on my sleep and decompress(if I am not camping).  I have a full scouting plate (Wood Badge, also just promoted to district Membership chair and am on the pack committee) so the summer is kind of a small breather for me.  Well not this year since I have to prepare for the fall sign up nights but its nice to know my Saturdays are free at least.  My husband already isn't that keen on the amount of time I spend on scouting as it is...

Obviously I am dedicated to scouting so I would more than likely attend the Saturday sessions, but I don't really see those parents who aren't as dedicated or into it taking a Saturday or two a month to go and be there all day. 

So what does everyone think?  What are the pros and cons to you on this idea?

Susan

Ah welcome to the "joys" of being a den leader. 

I am a former den leader and am now on the committee. I transitioned over just before the new program started.  So I feel your pain about parent participation or lack there of. 

My son is also a Bear so I can relate to what you are trying to cover during the den meetings.  Your den parents need to be reading thru the handbook with their boys to understand the requirements.  Take for instance the "Paws for Action" requirement. 

Learn about 2 Americans and share what you learn.  The learning portion needs to be done at home.  Our den leader made a simple one page book report type page for each boys to write what they learned. And the boys shared what they had learned at the den meeting.

Visit a historical place and visit it with your family or den.  Since life can get hectic and that you work on weekends, planning a go see it would be really tough.  I would suggest this be a family activity.

Learn about our flag and display it at home for a month.  Learn the meaning of the pledge of allegiance.  The underlined part is pretty self explanatory. 

Learn about how your family uses energy and how you can help your family decrease its use.  Again pretty self explanatory. 

Also the Fellowship and duty to God is something we told the parents they need to work on at home with their son as religion is such a personal thing and not everyone is the same denomination.

Tell these families if no one camps, no one gets their rank. This may spur some parents into action on going and getting trained.  As for the camping, is there no other leadership in your pack who can go get BALOO trained?  What is the Cubmaster saying?  I got trained as a Tiger den leader and we are looking to get our current Tiger den leader trained just to keep the cycle going.  Myself and the Cubmaster (also a bear parent) are the only two trained currently.  I would also look at trying to attend council run camp outs.  You shouldn't need a BALOO for that.   Looks like your council has some kind of camping fairly frequently :http://www.seattlebsa.org/images/Parent-Pal_Information.pdf

In our council you technically have till the next school year to finish a rank.  However if you go to summer camp or day camp they will typically work on what should be the boys next  year's rank so if your son is a Bear then he will be working on Webelos stuff.  

Some of these kids who wont put in the work along with their families are going to get left in the dust.  Sorry.  You shouldn't have to pull your hair out about each boy.  I know no one wants to see someone not get their rank but you have provided the information and a platform for them.  Its up to them to do complete it.

Question: do you make your parents stay at the meeting place during meetings or are they allowed to drop off and come back?   Our pack has a strict no drop off rule.  You MUST be on the property during the meeting.  We tell them at the 1st meeting that BSA doesn't stand for Babysitters of America.   If you are allowing these parents to leave and they are the ones balking at the "home" work then they are looking for babysitters.  

Also here is what is on the BSA Cub Scout FAQ page. 

The Cub Scout Program

Are Cub Scouts the same as Boy Scouts? No. Cub Scouting is a program of the Boy Scouts of America—so in

that sense, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts are both members of the same organization. However, they are entirely

different programs: Cub Scouting is a family-oriented program designed specifically to address the needs of

younger boys.

May parents attend den meetings? Cub Scout den meetings are intended to be an activity for the individual

boys. They are not a family activity, and the presence of parents can be a distraction. However, parental

involvement is encouraged, and all meetings should be open to your participation. If you would like to be

present at a den meeting, ask the den leader in advance so that the leader can plan a way for you to observe or

participate in an unobtrusive manner, or talk to the pack leaders on becoming more involved.

As to answer your question about rank completion time.  We thought we could be done by February with the requirements as that is what we have been able to do in the past with the old program but we realized by December that simply wasn't possible with the new program.  We finished up in early April and had our rank ceremony at on 4/26.  There are still a few stragglers working on some requirements but they are boys who have joined late.   2 boys joined in February but they are working hard to catch up.  One is a little slower than the other but that is mainly due to a language barrier but we have gotten him a Spanish version of the Wolf handbook.  So hopefully he can catch up. 

If you can't get everyone on the bandwagon now, try and plan a meeting/activity when school lets out and have a meeting with the parents as to what to expect next year.  

Susan

We started the year with the everyone has their ranks by February goal.   We realized in December that wasn't really going to happen.   December is pretty much a wash for our pack.  We meet once for a regular den meeting and then another time for our Christmas party and then won't meet back up until after the new year.  

We just had our rank ceremony last Tuesday.  We still have a few stragglers who still need to earn theirs due to still needing to camp or they started late in the year.   Had 2 join in late February alone.   They are working hard to catch up. 

February is also a big wash for our pack as we focus on pinewood derby and blue and gold.   We usually spend at least 2 den meetings working on cars.  We borrow a bunch of tools so everyone who may not have tools at home has an opportunity to work on their cars.

My son(Bear) along with some of the other boys in his den who went to day camp this past summer were about 2 steps ahead of everyone else as they worked/completed on requirements at camp.    

If you want to get a head, encourage the boys to attend camp so they can work on some of the requirements.   This will free up some time later in the year to work on the electives.   Also encourage everyone in your pack to camp early.  Nothing like being the only one in your den who hasn't camped yet(for whatever reason) to not get your rank with everyone else who you have been with all year long.  Several sad faces last week.  But requirements are requirements.  We offer up about 6 opportunities a year to camp.    

I hate to say it but I kind of liked the freedom that the old program had with being able to complete a rank requirement in one or two meetings and then you had more time to plan in some electives thru ought the year.  Instead of hammering away at the rank requirements.   I saw this coming down the line so I transitioned from a den leader to the pack committee and also the district committee. 

Also for next year, now you know what to expect and how long each requirement may take so you can plan now and try to have a better eta on when everyone may finish.   Planning is key.

Susan

I am the sign up night/recruiting chair for my district membership team.  Is your unit attached to a particular school? I would get in contact with your D.E. before you do any boys talks at schools.  There is usually a plan in place with the district membership team that coordinates with the D.E. to handle those.   You have to be careful of going to more than one school as some units may be upset that you are encroaching their territory.  Our pack has 2 other packs w/in a 5 mile radius of us.  In that radius there is a library and a large outdoor shopping center I stuck a sign up night sign out near the shopping center that also happens to be across the street from one of those said neighboring units and lord have mercy they had a conniption fit.  Contacted our D.E. about it.   I said "Hey that is a high traffic area, if they want to recruit they can get their own signs...".   But anyway lesson learned(that was before I joined the membership team).  Little do they know that down the line "territories" really wont matter. Its probably going to be a free for all.    Please make sure your Beascout.org unit pin is updated.  This is a crucial tool when its time for recruiting.  I am finding out that a large # of units do not know that it even exists.     I got a bunch of blank stares at round table and at Wood Badge when I mentioned it.  Also make sure that you have someone watching the beascout page for any leads and to make sure you respond to a lead as soon as possible.  

Another idea that I am trying to push is to have parents in your unit go and volunteer at your schools "play day".   This gets you visibility with the other parents who might be there and to get the word out about your unit.  If you plan on having any kind of spring talks make sure you have a strong summertime program in place.   We are asking that units who are requesting a "spring talk" have a strong summertime program in place, not just meet once a month to earn the award. 

Also plan on having a "Back to the Pack" event either before or just after your sign up night.  We had a fishing event where we invited the boys who dropped out during the previous year and asked that existing boys bring a friend.  Our council advertised it for us.  You just have to provide the information and they sent out the mailers. 

Sounds like you are doing great and have a good plan in place.  Word of caution, don't over extend yourself especially if you plan on attending Wood Badge.  I was on the district training team along with my pack responsibilities and decided to go to WB this year (this is my 3rd year in scouting) it all can be overwhelming especially when you start thinking about your tickets.  I have had to step back from the training team since I joined the membership team.  2 of my tickets are membership related and the others are events at the district and council levels.   Each person is different but don't say yes to everything that comes along as you could get overwhelmed. 

As far as training goes, if you have the time and the patience take all of the courses offered on my.scouting(I really hate the new website.  It takes ages to do the training but I believe that is another thread  ).  Especially take the planning course on the committee side. 

Susan

Not much advice but man oh man I wish our council still did these.  They called it Scout/Cub World here.  With membership numbers way down I really think this is something to jump start people's interest in scouting.   I was told by the council that they stopped having them due to insurance reasons and lack of volunteers. 

I suggested that our district run one for the troops for boys crossing over to see what all is out there so they don't feel they have to go into the feeder troop.  Got a couple blank stares.  Oh well. 

Increasing rates of membership losses at both the youth and adult levels means two things: 1) Fewer Scouts  and 2) Fewer adults.

 

Since this trend has increased since 2013 (by nearly doubling, check the threads with these facts noted), why should we not be concerned? There are fewer adults, ergo a smaller volunteer pool.

 

I'd love to see stats on the average age of volunteers by unit, district and council over the last ten years. That data would tell a great deal.

I am on the district committee and at 36, I am the youngest person on the committee.  The average age on the committee is at least 65.   I think its great that people whose children are long gone from scouting still want to volunteer but we need to realize that a 65-70 year old person is not going to be able to relate that well with someone who is 25-28 years old.   I keep hearing in those meetings "It used to be" or  "long time ago" and that I believe that is the crux of the current scouters to potential volunteers.  Granted there are some current scouters who can adapt and work with the younger people,  I have a feeling that the majority can't/won't. 

No need to go all the way to Philmont and cough up $500.00 when if you Google "Millennial's Boy Scouts of America" the BSA already has several pdf's and power point presentations with information on the millennial demographic and what they supposedly are into. 

According to their studies, these parents "want to be involved and want to volunteer".  I personally would love to know where to find these people because if you look around at our den meetings, the parents are not really involved and are off somewhere in the sanctuary or outside on their phones or pads.  I almost want to see if we can initiate in our pack something like what is happening at Chick Fil-A.  http://inside.chick-fil-a.com/all-cooped-up-how-one-chick-fil-a-operator-is-redefining-the-phrase/.  

Maybe if these parents can get the screen out of their face and actually see what all happens during meetings and camping they can see that help is needed.  We have the same 5 or 6 people doing almost everything.  Its ridiculous when we have a pack of over 40 boys.  I have a crazy work schedule( like have to be at work everyday at 3am) just like everyone else yet I am doing way more than my "one hour a week".   You are bringing your child for that one hour a week, why not actually get involved?  Then there will be no one to b*tch about how slowly the pinewood derby is going or that its taking so long for meals to come out when we are camping.   Or complaining about how much various activities cost for camping or other events.  They fail to do any of the fundraisers.  

These millennial's need a swift kick in the pants if you ask me.  I almost have to wonder if the disconnect with them is the whole "vote" issue and they think that scouting is outdated and that they think that scouting will not have an impact on their child's life and they won't learn anything useful. 

Thanks everyone for the replies.  I know we will probably never go paperless but I need something/somewhere as the awards chair to see everything as a whole.   I am the one who goes and buys the awards and makes out the cards to award them.  We are backwards in our pack as we don't really do immediate recognition.  I can't/don't want to have to carry around a massive bag of awards each week to the den meetings so we just award them at the pack meeting.   So far I haven't anyone say anything or notice that we don't do the immediate recognition. 

Each month I am still relying on the den leader to email me a list of what each boy has earned.   We still have a die-hard who refuse to use Scout Manager.  Luckily that den is not very big and the boys all earn the same award each month.  So I just have to go and boy 10 of this and 10 of that.  

We are also needing something online as we have cycled thru 3 Tiger Den leaders this year.  1st one got deployed and is now being transferred.  The other 2 guys who "stepped up" have been sporadic in attendance.  And one of them is no longer allowed to be in the pack due to a domestic violence incident at our cuboree(yeah that was awesome to find out, I had already left the camp out) and now is under a restraining order.  The other comes when he can but he has long days traveling for work.   So now the Cubmaster and I are going to try and step up in the interim until we can get another "volunteer" to be the den leader.  So we need a place that the leaders can keep up with the boys' progress.

I realize this should be in the internet section but since I am looking for input from fellow Cub Scouters, I am posting it here. 

What online tracking software/websites do you use? Our pack has used Scout Manager for the past 2 years.   I personally don't have a problem with it other than the way it configures some of the awards reports.  As the awards chair its kind of frustrating. I also still rely on the den leaders to send me an actual list of what they show each boy has earned to double check against what Scout Manager shows.

One of the main complaints we have received is the time that reminder notifications go out.  They consistently get sent out about 2am each time.  Personally I am up at 2 because I have to be at work at 3am so its not the end all be all for me.   However some parents have an "on call" phone and each email dings them in the middle of the night.  I contacted Scout Manager and they said it is a company wide thing.  I am afraid that most parents are blocking these emails and then are not getting the info we are trying to send them.  

So please sell me on your software. 

Thanks,
Susan

I should add that the woman who had day camp dumped in her lap did the best she could with what she had.  Things are not always going to go the way we want or plan for them to. That's a important leader skill, being able to adapt.   I appreciate what she tried to do. 

Susan

Do you think it is something that you can help organize and help run remotely?  See if you can recruit a person to be the actual director and to be there on site and you help organize the activities and recruit volunteers.  This way it doesn't die completely and you do not have to take off any time from work. 

My first experience with day camp wasn't that great.   My son went 2 years ago and the person who was supposed to run it (DE) got transferred up to Ohio right before it started so another lady took over and did the best she could.   She only had about 3 other full time volunteers other than herself to help.  I helped out part time but it was so organized all I ended up doing was stand around watching the kids just sit around and help clean up at the end of the day. It was held at an elementary school so they had only an little playground to play on.  No organized sports arranged.  I know a couple of kids from our pack went the 1st two days and promptly left since it was so disorganized.  The only two positive things my son got out of that 1st year was he learned how to play chess and they had a blacksmithing demonstration that I thought was very cool. 

This past summer, I sent my son to another district's camp.  Since ours was in mid July and here in Florida its just too hot.   So he went to the neighboring district in early June.  He had so much more fun since it was organized.  It was held at one of our two local council's camps.  So he got to shoot BB Guns and do archery along with swim in the pool there.  

Depending on when our district's camp is scheduled I may still send him to the neighboring district again since it is at the council camp and this year he should be able to participate on the climbing wall. 

Sorry I got off subject but I think you can still try to be an integral part of getting a camp off the ground.  Not sure how many camps are offered by your council.  Ours has like 10 different camps the boys can go to.  So the competition here for attendance is fierce.

Well I have been waiting several days to be able to respond I saved what I typed up the other day

As a female I will chime in.

I don't think girls should be allowed into Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts.    If the girls are so dissatisfied with what the GS offers then they should push to make the change.  Obviously some girls now days are more outgoing and adventure seeking and are not content making pottery, learning to cook and making jewelry.  That's great.  I was a GS for over 3 years and never once went camping, went on a hike once.  We even had a lock in one time, it was pretty lame. So do I feel there was a distinct lack of activities offered as pottery and jewelry were things I was never crazy about. I had to join the BSA with my son to go camping.  To me the BSA does emphasize the physical outdoors more than the GS do. 

I quickly did a search to see exactly what the GS do these days.  Looks like they offer a STEM program, archery, horseback riding, robotics, hiking and camping.  So to me it looks a lot like various activities that are offered by CS/BS.  http://forgirls.girlscouts.org/home/badgeexplorer/

If these girls are not getting these activities then they need to push their local councils and at the national level. 

Also one of the girls in the article was 13.  She can join a venturing crew if she really wants to be in the BSA. 

I do not think girls should be allowed in.  Boys need a place where they can be rough and tumble boys.  I do think allowing boys in will affect their masculinity.  Call me old fashioned I guess.  Yes, I am a female member of the BSA and am a lot more active than your standard female Cub Scout parent.  And I recognize that when my son crosses over that my involvement in his scouting path will be greatly diminished as he is to stand on his own two feet and join a boy led unit.  I doubt my involvement with the BSA will cease though.  I enjoy it.   

I hope my ramblings make sense. 

Susan

I should add that in the 3 years of my being involved with scouting we are on our 3rd DE.   Is this pretty common?